Rossi vs. Darden developments - Part 2

  • We want success. And that comes from doing good research, not 'sloppy and wrong' research.


    Unfortunately for us all, Rossi has a long legacy of the latter.

    Who you refer with "we" ? Probably IH & co. even if you try to distinguish your position from them.

    Is quite interesting that you forget all the research that has been done on Ni H + X systems by many international and respected researchers .

    Are Focardi, Piantelli, Hoistad, Parchomov just to cite few, all sloppy ? Are you so sure that you are so superior to them ? That all those institutions are blind and wrong ?

  • @sig,


    I would exclude you, because I think you are sincere. I've been around for awhile. I know the play book. "Oh, we would be the first to be so very happy and relieved if LENR is true"--and then go about discrediting and attacking everything and anything related to LENR Rossi, attempting to obstruct and block funding to Rossi, assassinating the character of researchers Rossi, trying to obfuscate and confuse the issues provide evidence. And for LENR+, the effect is amplified by at least an order of magnitude. Insincere skepticism is easy to spot. Many people NOBODY except Rossi and Wong have reputations on the line with the Rossi affair. And they intend to protect them, possibly at very high costs--especially those with the means to do so.


    Fixed it for you

  • Those silly universities and corporations spending all that money on labs, lab equipment, instrumentation, analytical equipment, measurement equipment, engineers and technicians, etc. to do research and development, when all you need is the following bag of junk tools and rolls of adhesive-backed rubber tape (not shown: random plumbing pipe and fittings, lots of foil insulation, strip-heaters, and cheap meters (all available from your local Home Depot)), and some poor plumbing skills (Rossi could never get a job as a plumber). If I were trying to scam someone, I'd at least make my fake apparatus look halfway professional and credible.

  • My understanding that those tools were from AR's plumber. Not sure he has ever done much work to turn a wrench himself. The pre-1MW show was better. They had some more sophisticated looking boxes (again not sure AR turned a wrench or screw driver anywhere). But there were also pics with Fabiani with the cheapest Chinese components you can get (e.g., $2 current sensor). I recognized it since I had used some in past replication attempts.


  • She declined to 'clarify'. Not a good sign for Rossi's lawyers.


    The questions were mostly about matters clarified in the order on expert witnesses (and clarified there mostly against Rossi).


    I don't know if all US civil cases have parties appealing so much, but this one seems to be pretty full of money for lawyers. It is a shame that with such an enormous volume of evidence the basic twistiness of the arguments on Rossi's side can be missed. You actually have to pay attention to the arguments and follow them to source. Abd does this, a bit, and the results are revelatory, but I can't say Altonaga wants to do this when analysing the MSJs. Perhaps she feels that twistiness should be assessed by a Jury and once facts can be twisted we are in disputed fact territory and so MSJs must be denied.

  • Rossele - you wouldn't believe the things that we know. I see that you only chose to address a couple of the Fabiani related adventures that you funded but while we have your attention we'd like to know something. Why did you go and buy 10+ condos in Miami with IH money when you could have reinvested in the greatest invention since powdered sugar and changed the planet? Now you want us to believe that the ecat wasn't good enough and that you needed to iterate and commercialize with the quackx? (with a 1MW quackx in the mix nonetheless - that makes me howl with laughter every time you mention it)


    Packing your bags for your next batch of dupes yet?

  • Quote

    While I agree with your assessment of all things Rossi, I still would like to know how a bunch of smart lawyer type investment bankers like you got conned into giving Rossi anything?

    What the hell were you thinking?


    Yes interesting question, how have the people been tricked (so easy) by this false "genius"? (The hoax was easy to reveal)

    Gullible people, ignorance or what?

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Henry ().

  • Rossele - you wouldn't believe the things that we know. I see that you only chose to address a couple of the Fabiani related adventures that you funded but while we have your attention we'd like to know something. Why did you go and buy 10+ condos in Miami with IH money when you could have reinvested in the greatest invention since powdered sugar and changed the planet? Now you want us to believe that the ecat wasn't good enough and that you needed to iterate and commercialize with the quackx? (with a 1MW quackx in the mix nonetheless - that makes me howl with laughter every time you mention it)


    Packing your bags for your next batch of dupes yet?

    Why don't you put your cards on the table? Sure, you can't reveal us your sources 😬 I ask myself why AR supporters didn't need to discredit IH and IH supporters do it continuously...


    Why Rossi developed Quarkx?

    Who knows? Asks Rossi.


    Maybe because Ecat IP would belong to IH due to a poor initial contract and the development of Quarkx has made Ecat obsolete...

  • Maybe because Ecat IP would belong to IH due to a poor initial contract and the development of Quarkx has made Ecat obsolete...


    See this earlier discussion. If you disagree that any hypothetical QuarkX IP would fall under the provisions of the license agreement as E-Cat IP, please give your reasoning, referring to the terms of sec. 13.4 of the license agreement.

  • My understanding that those tools were from AR's plumber. Not sure he has ever done much work to turn a wrench himself. The pre-1MW show was better. They had some more sophisticated looking boxes (again not sure AR turned a wrench or screw driver anywhere). But there were also pics with Fabiani with the cheapest Chinese components you can get (e.g., $2 current sensor). I recognized it since I had used some in past replication attempts.


    Ahh, well that makes sense, I can see Rossi jumping up and down, waving his hands, in stream-of-consciousness mode, screaming at the plumber, add/delete pipe and fitting here, run tubing to sink drain, hide the "reactor" and strip-heaters, probe's etc with yards of tape and insulation.... Each one of his plumbing hairballs looks different, but always entombed (obscured) in sloppy rubber or mineral/glass foil insulation and tape, wires running in, with cheap thermocouple probes sticking out like a thanksgiving turkey (well it is a turkey (no offense to turkeys)). Oh, and his "control boxes" and wiring would make any control-engineer/electrician turn over in their grave. Look at those boxes with hariballs full of wires twisted together, no DIN terminal blocks/fuses/connectors, improper connectors, or any normal engineering protocol. Rossi doesn't even have enough engineering knowledge to know that his "creations" LOOK incredibly crude and amateurish. Rossi didn't want to spend too much on his "demos" apparently, needed the money for condos, and lawyers. Of course, then there is the ceramic variant also (ie, the poorly made mini kiln fast-acting hotdog cooker). OK, I'm goin' out to my garage to build a much better version this afternoon (I have much better tools and plumbing skills), and will call mine the E-Dog (in order to avoid any trademark conflicts with "E-Cat"), and will be available in a day, at a bargain-basement price to the first bidder at only ONE, thats one... single... $million!

  • Quote

    My understanding that those tools were from AR's plumber.


    When Krivit went all the way to Italy to visit Rossi and Levi, those tools, which he photographed, were the ONLY visible tools or equipment in Rossi's large and mostly empty "factory". Rossi often credited his elderly (and now no longer with us) plumber for helping him construct the early ecats. And indeed, they looked like refugees from the used toilet part depot. Anyone who has ever worked in a science or high tech research lab would know immediately how improbable it would be that the most important discovery of the previous 100 years was made with Rossi and Levi's 2011 collection of rusty and dirty frazzled junk. Not to mention that the whole assembly was primarily occupied by two large heaters. One was at the core and the other even larger band heating element was positioned outside the device's boundaries so that it could only heat... remember? ... it could only heat the COOLING WATER! (this insight was originally by the poster on the Moletrap forum (and formerly the Steorn forum) known as Asetalokin (an anagram of Nikolas Tesla).


    And of course, Rossi's plenipotentiary "hot cat" which was supposed to make energy from nuclear fusion was not even supplied with ANY sort of forced cooling. Rossi was that obvious because, as is a classical situation, he only wanted to attract investors and enthusiasts who had no comprehension of science, technology or what real world experiments actually look like.

  • Italianlawyer - what Eric said. IH has a paid up IP license to all Rossi ecat IP in their territory into perpetuity. That doesn't appear to have any positive value right now.


    Are you hear to help Rossi maintain his crime spree cover-up from his days in the mother country? How far back can you go?

  • That doesn't appear to have any positive value right now.


    Maybe if you didn't box everything up right after the lawsuit filing Murray could have had more time to incorporate Dameron's experience into his own modified e-Cat. Dameron was still running an IH-built reactor in your same building, according to Murray. Why the hasty reaction? Were you afraid of what your further findings might be: that maybe Murray would eventually confirm Dameron's findings?

  • Rossele - you wouldn't believe the things that we know. I see that you only chose to address a couple of the Fabiani related adventures that you funded but while we have your attention we'd like to know something. Why did you go and buy 10+ condos in Miami with IH money when you could have reinvested in the greatest invention since powdered sugar and changed the planet? Now you want us to believe that the ecat wasn't good enough and that you needed to iterate and commercialize with the quackx? (with a 1MW quackx in the mix nonetheless - that makes me howl with laughter every time you mention it)


    Packing your bags for your next batch of dupes yet?

    You're right...We wouldn't believe you. Not a chance.

  • It's been stated that TD never indicated there would be any problems with Rossi's technology
    During the speech in Padua TD actually made a few hints and pointers which could be interpreted as everything was not all well with Rossi.

    "I had just installed seat belts in my air plane" (TD speaking in code referring to Dr Bob)

    "Thank you, we will not give up" (when asked about AR's technology)

    In private discussions TD expressed concerns about explosions and also concerns about their ability to cooperate with Rossi.
    I've not heard that Darden expressed concerns about the COP.

    As for the IH Due Diligence part -
    IH did not stop at just paying the 11.5 millions (in batches) they pursued the licenses of other territories as well, they wanted the whole world.





  • See this earlier discussion. If you disagree that any hypothetical QuarkX IP would fall under the provisions of the license agreement as E-Cat IP, please give your reasoning, referring to the terms of sec. 13.4...

    I've already read art. 13.4. Eric, if we assume Quarkx is a different thing from Ecat, Quarkx IP will not be linked to Ecat.


    You states Quarkx (if it works) is a mere evolution, not a totally different product. Isn't so? Well, I have no contact with dr. Rossi, nor with his team, so I can't answer.


    Maybe Quarkx is just an evolution of Ecat as you think, maybe it's a totally different things... but that's no the point.


    The decision to develop something different, from my point of view, could be explained with the will to maintain the control over his IP... That's no a proof that Ecat is a fake invention, as stated by other observers...


    If this attempt will be a success or a failure, it's impossible to say...

  • I'd ask Rossi's supporters to try to imagine (for only a brief minute) that Rossi has scammed the field from the very beginning. Now, with that hypothetical fact that you are imagining (if only for a minute), I'd ask you to think about the implications to the LENR field given that this is true (if only hypothetically and for a minute). Do you see the damage?

    It is absurd to think that Rossi could have damaged the LENR field. Do you really believe that IH would ever invest in the current portfolio if they had not been attracted to the E-Cat fame? And do you think Woodford would ever invested in the field if it did not exist what he himself called "a core element of the initial investment"? Rossi has allowed the old Cold Fusion to come back again, he has aroused new interest in the industry, which has produced new investments into this field and thus causing indirectly the reopening of researches suspended for years. However you think about him, you can not really deny it all.

  • Italianlawyer - what Eric said. IH has a paid up IP license to all Rossi ecat IP in their territory into perpetuity. That doesn't appear to have any positive value right now.


    Are you hear to help Rossi maintain his crime spree cover-up from his days in the mother country? How far back can you go?

    I'm here as an observer who thinks Rossi is sincere about the fact that his IP works well... I see every post you write is biased against him and this reduces your credibility... Instead of speaking about his past legal problem related to events happened 30 years ago in Italy related to violation of administrative regulations, let's speak about the us trial...

  • Rossi's case is in deep kimchi with his wounded Wong.

    Why Wong should be wounded? No one has questioned his expertise and professionalism. The reasons why his first two opinions were not accepted are in no way dependent upon him, as is easily understood by reading document 303:

    [About his first opinion:] Wong testified he lacked knowledge about the E-Cat’s underlying technology or how the E-Cat functions.[...] As Plaintiffs have not met their burden of explaining the first opinion’s methodology, much less establishing its reliability, the opinion does not satisfy Daubert and is properly excluded.

    [About his second opinion:] the second opinion’s methodology largely consists of identifying and comparing numbers, and then inputting these numbers into a simple division equation. (See id. 12). This basic arithmetic exercise is “not beyond the understanding of the average lay person” and therefore does not assist the trier of fact through application of an expert’s specialized knowledge or technique.

    Wong will still be present in the courtroom to discuss his other two opinions and I'm sure it will prove to be anything but wounded ...

  • Maybe Quarkx is just an evolution of Ecat as you think, maybe it's a totally different things... but that's no the point.


    The decision to develop something different, from my point of view, could be explained with the will to maintain the control over his IP... That's no a proof that Ecat is a fake invention, as stated by other observers...


    If this attempt will be a success or a failure, it's impossible to say...


    If Quarkx is not evolutionary then Rossi - known deceiver with multiple rigged demos - must discover two independent scientific miracles.


    And why does Rossi want "control over his IP"? He has half of the world to market stuff in with no interference from IH. Is that not enough for him? How can IH prevent him from doing anything?


    What would be more relevant, were Rossi to have something that worked, is that IH would be steaming ahead pouring in $100Ms and establishing first-mover advantage in what would become a competitive field - with no certainty there is any IP protection (water-heater patents?).


    The idea that Rossi has working stuff given to IH but turns his back on it to develop new different working stuff, wasting another 2 years, is absurd.


    But then the whole Rossi circus has been absurd, so I guess those who are inclined to believe him will not notice a bit more of that.

  • Regarding Rossi specifically, I would be delighted if he really had a working process. Who wouldn't be?

    You are lying. IH Darden and co. who have to pay 89 M$.


    1) Regarding Rossi specifically, I would be delighted if he really had a working process. Who wouldn't be? It would create unimaginable increased wealth, prosperity, and increased quality of life for all of humanity.


    2) Regarding other LENR research efforts for commercially viable over-unity energy production (Mills, Suhas, MFPF, etc.). Ditto. If the LENR 'cat' is out of the bag and cannot be stopped, then hallelujah! Great benefits to society are in store.


    3) Unfortunately, Rossi is an admitted scammer. The overwhelming evidence is that his 'stuff' is fake.


    4) Regarding other researchers, if there is any hope for some benefit to humanity, it will require quality, verifiable, and repeatable studies (not crappy, unverifiable, scamming demonstrations like what Rossi has provided).


    Can you Rossi supporters not see A) how tribal and superficial your Rossi cheerleading efforts are and B) how counterproductive to the field of LENR research it is to defend the extraordinary malpractice of Rossi?


    The usual generic and vague writing without any facts.

    There are sound reports and facts that demonstrate that Rossi technology is working. Reports written by respected scientist and institutions, and there are groups who obtained the same results.


    Points 2) and 4) are almost the same and point 3) is the usual IH style vague and empty blah blah.


    Responding your A)

    "Rossi supporters" are just people not connected with IH. We have not an agenda and simply look at facts, read reports and judge with their own head.


    To respond to your B)

    LENR was a dead field before Rossi, now there are even other companies who have demonstrated and/or invest in Lenr. One nice example is National Instruments who is one of the most important Compmanies in the world for scientific data acquisition.

  • The idea that Rossi has working stuff given to IH but turns his back on it to develop new different working stuff, wasting another 2 years, is absurd.

    Why wasting ?

    Companies do develop new technology everyday. Rossi do the same.

    Also each product from a company has his range of applicability and usability, I presume that the ECAT, HOTCAT and QuarkX respond to different markets.

  • In private discussions TD expressed concerns about explosions and also concerns about their ability to cooperate with Rossi.
    I've not heard that Darden expressed concerns about the COP.

    In Industry history there have never been a new technology without new problems.

    The first "Benzomobiles" had problems of fires and explosions. But modern automobiles have not.

  • Why accept 50% when you can have 100%? The mutual trust and respect between AR and IH was compromised by events. AR was too jealous about his secrets and IH tried to develop ip by others guy...


    Do you remember the Meucci-Bell affair? Quite similar... even in the bias of English speaking and Italian speaking observers (English page is "Pro bell" and Italian page "pro Meucci").


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Meucci 


    https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Meucci


    But Italian page contain this interesting link:


    https://www.theguardian.com/wo…nternationaleducationnews

    ---

    By the way, are you sure AR and IH will no sign a settlement during or after the trial? As an attorney, I always suggest my clients to find an agreement. And I'm sure US colleagues will do the same...

  • ele said "LENR was a dead field before Rossi"


    Certainly an exaggeration but LENR wasn't thriving.

    After Rossi.. did it thrive?

    Did the Deflakion-Rossi incident grow LENR in 2011?


    The advent of publicity via social media and internet forums has helped LENR greatly, in the past two years.


    MFMP has had its fits and starts but there seems to be some continuity due to accumulated expertise/toughness.

    Perhaps MFMP crowdfunding and team input will repair some of the damage due to the Rossi/IH debacle.


    The MFMP team was offsite 20hrs ago in Czecho? Right now they must be onsite setting up equipment.

    Maybe just having a cup of coffee 9.30 am

    There must be an Aura of excitement, its spring,2017

    God Bless this forum with a thread more worthy of terabytes of discussion.




  • And of course, Rossi's plenipotentiary "hot cat" which was supposed to make energy from nuclear fusion was not even supplied with ANY sort of forced cooling.


    If you do your due diligence and calculate for the physical design of the hot cat the possible convected and radiated power which can be dissipated, then you will see that no forced cooling is necessary for the temperatures reported. That's independent of the fact of the hot cat is working or not.