Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from LFH Sam

IH did not stop at just paying the 11.5 millions (in batches) they pursued the licenses of other territories as well, they wanted the whole world.

Do you have a source for this?

Quote from Italianlawyer

Maybe Quarkx is just an evolution of Ecat as you think, maybe it's a totally different things... but that's no the point. [...] The decision to develop something different, from my point of view, could be explained with the will to maintain the control over his IP...

Here's my point (which deals with hypotheticals): (1) It's hard to imagine that the QuarkX IP is not derived in some way from the E-Cat IP. (2) Even if the QuarkX IP is only very slightly derived from the E-Cat IP, the provisions of sec. 13.4 of the license agreement are extremely broad and likely cover the QuarkX IP nonetheless. In that case, we then have (3) Rossi's developing something different, i.e., the QuarkX IP, does not allow him to get out of needing to transfer it to IH under the terms of the license agreement, contrary to your suggestion above about maintaining control over it.

But we can go even further. Even if the QuarkX is completely unrelated to the E-Cat in terms of its embodiments and related processes, it seems likely that the QuarkX IP would be covered by the license agreement nonetheless. Here I have highlighted statements in sec. 13.4. on the assumption that any hypothetical QuarkX IP is not derived from the E-Cat IP:

Recall that Rossi was at one point IH's "chief scientist" and presumably an employee, which might explain why the terms of this section are so broad. It is worth reading over the section in its entirety.

How is it so hard for Planet Rossi (inclusive of 3 LF Mods) to understand that Rossi sold his IP rights in specific territories for $10M? The language is very straightforward and not confusing to those who can read a contract. He signed the contract, accepted the wire and actually had a time period afterwards where he could have refunded and gotten his rights back if he had cognitive dissonance. But no, he went and purchased Cadillacs, condos and not telling what else. Only on Planet Rossi can you rewrite the history of your actions and concrete meaning of contracts with the support of your Dupes (and that now definitively includes Dupe-salla).

I also find it amusing that several brave souls on LF want to wave the due diligence flag again. That was a complex analysis and risk assessment

and the go decision was from a high risk $$ pool that was assembled for inventions that might change the world for the better. Do any of you teardown artist, naysayers and haters put your resources to work for change when loss is more likely than gain?

Quote from Eric Walker

Here's my point (which deals with hypotheticals): (1) It's hard to imagine that the QuarkX IP is not derived in some way from the E-Cat IP. (2) Even if the QuarkX IP is only very slightly derived from the E-Cat IP, the provisions of sec. 13.4 of the license agreement are extremely broad and likely cover the QuarkX IP nonetheless. In that case, we then have (3) Rossi's developing something different, i.e., the QuarkX IP, does not allow him to get out of needing to transfer it to IH under the terms of the license agreement, contrary to your suggestion above about maintaining control over it.

But we can go even further. Even if the QuarkX is completely unrelated to the E-Cat in terms of its embodiments and related processes, it seems likely that the QuarkX IP would be covered by the license agreement nonetheless. Here I have highlighted statements in sec. 13.4. on the assumption that any hypothetical QuarkX IP is not derived from the E-Cat IP:

Recall that Rossi was at one point IH's "chief scientist" and presumably an employee, which might explain why the terms of this section are so broad. It is worth reading over the section in its entirety.

Display More

Eric, my post was done to reply to who has stated that AR conduct was "strange", because Rossi, instead of commercializing Ecat, developed an assumed new machine... Soneone stated that this would be a scammer conduct... Bevause if you have a working product, you put it on the market...

Well I tried to explain why AR could have decided to develop Quarkx. But I'm not an Ip lawyer and can't predict the outcome of a litigation between them...

But I want to reply to your interesting arguments.

1) hard to imagine doesn't mean impossible. We don't know how Quarkx works...

2) I agree with you. If there was a link, Rossi could have problems (if I doesn't win the trial for the relevant count)

3) In a civil law system, we should say this clause, in the part in which says that every future development not related with Ecat belongs to IH - is null. Why? Because it represents such a broad clause that would impede AR to realize any invention in the energy sector, thus realizing a "perpetual obligation". What's about Common law? I should study it but at the moment, I prefer to wait for the trial!

Are you sure this clause could not be considered as a "clause de style", without real effects (I don't know how to say in English, in Italian we say "clausola di stile")?

Eric, my post was done to reply to who has stated that AR conduct was "strange", because Rossi, instead of commercializing Ecat, developed an assumed new machine... Soneone stated that this would be a scammer conduct... Bevause if you have a working product, you put it on the market...

Well I tried to explain why AR could have decided to develop Quarkx. But I'm not an Ip lawyer and can't predict the outcome of a litigation between them...

First, I hope you can agree that this is a normal scammer conduct. Specifically, claiming a revolutionary invention, demonstrating it, and then leaving this unused and working a year on a newer better revolutionary invention.

Second, I'm sure you will agree that this is what Rossi has been doing for 5 years now.

Where we have an issue is that you reckon there are other possible reasons for this conduct. I can see that there might be in specific cases, though you have not shown how they apply to Rossi. But the longer these cycles of claim revolutionary invention, demonstrate it, leave it with no independent validation or follow-through continue, the more implausible this becomes.

Rossi is now on his third scammer-lookalike cycle: e-cat, hot-cat, quarkX.

Quote from Dewey Weaver

Italian lawyer -It is evident that you are not a lawyer. Rossi took $10M in exchange for rights to his invention. He did not deliver and now doesn't get to claim

harm as a result of being paid and not delivering. Planet Rossi law schools are as bad as Planet Rossi physics, science, logic, rhetoric, history, math, and etc, etc etc...

Well, for sure I'm not a lawyer 😂😂😂

And judge Altonaga the same. Because she rejected motion to dismiss relating the point you mentioned... Ip question is on the table.

This means there are disputed facts that should examined by the jury.

Good one Italianlawyer - more faux circular arguments from Planet Rossi and we'll see what, if anything, actually gets to the jury should the trial

actually happen.

Quote from Italianlawyer

I'm here as an observer who thinks Rossi is sincere about the fact that his IP works well... I see every post you write is biased against him and this reduces your credibility... Instead of speaking about his past legal problem related to events happened 30 years ago in Italy related to violation of administrative regulations, let's speak about the us trial...

"every post you write is biased against" IH "and this reduces your credibility"
you will judged as you judge

I'm here as an observer who thinks Rossi is sincere about the fact that his IP works well

That is one of the arguments many make, and I guess Rossi appears sincere in this way to many people who meet him.

Rossi is clearly (from documented actions) not well-equipped to judge physicalk reality and accept, for example, that he is mis-measuring power in. It is not necesSary to distinguish between that being sincere or not sincere. Either way his tests are not to be trusted. Similarly with Doral and the never-seen heat exchanger. Whether Rossi is sincere or not, it cannot dissipate 1MW. Rossi does seem delusional in various ways, and deliberately deceitful in others, which makes pinning this down difficult. I think Rossi's unusual character is why some people who have met him end up accepting what he says (in part) and being strong supporters. Since Rossi's misdirections are so blatent no-one can accept all he says. Those here who support him sure are good at finding excuses.

it was reported that Rossi did make this statement in a March 20 blog post: “The Hot Cat is evolved into the E-Cat QuarkX."

http://coldfusion3.com/blog/rossi-plans-small-reactor

but the older blog posts seem to have been removed.

Sounds like an "improvement" based on the Ecat to me.

I doubt he will win, but if he does, he will likely be in litigation a long long time.

Quote from bocijn

The advent of publicity via social media and internet forums has helped LENR greatly, in the past two years.

Surely, but the new flourish of discussion on the topic was restarted by Rossi with his JONP.

Hate him or love him, LENR people must be grateful to Rossi.

Even most of the MFMP activity is motivated by Rossi technology.

Defkalion was the first company held by Greek venture capitalist that has damaged Rossi. IH is the second.

Quote from THHuxleynew

for example, that he is mis-measuring power in. It is not necesSary to distinguish between that being sincere or not sincere.

In all most recent tests it was not Rossi himself that was measuring power in and out.

I presume that you refer to a test that is years old and whose results are now days out of date.

My feeling is that Rossi is sincere but most of his detractors are not.

Quote from THHuxleynew

I hope you can agree that this is a normal scammer conduct. Specifically, claiming a revolutionary invention, demonstrating it, and then leaving this unused and working a year on a newer better revolutionary invention.

No this is not a normal scammer conduct.

Scammers normally disappear after a short time and eventually reappear with the same "invention". They also hate check done by any others.

Remember that Rossi Ecat passed a test done by IH experts in Ferrara.

Rossi have never told that the QuarkX would substitute the traditional ECAT. It seems a different product in the line.

Quote from THHuxleynew

First, I hope you can agree that this is a normal scammer conduct.

Quote from oldguy

"every post you write is biased against" IH "and this reduces your credibility"

@Planet IH: Why do you conduct such intense discussions about a scammer and a scam-product?

Either AR has something, what in your eyes is highly unlikely, or he will fade away as all the other scammers too. Discussing about the bear-skin (Quark-X, Yoghurt-Y, Bifidus-Z, etc..) before we even know that there is one is silly and unprofessional.

Please just wait for end of May and the mfp results of ecco/Me356 tests. Then we can restart the discussion about who owns the tools...

Ni-Li-H-LENR will grow up - but most likely outside IH! --> only IH wastes time..and reputation.

Quote from ele

Surely, but the new flourish of discussion on the topic was restarted by Rossi with his JONP.

Hate him or love him, LENR people must be grateful to Rossi.

Even most of the MFMP activity is motivated by Rossi technology.

Defkalion was the first company held by Greek venture capitalist that has damaged Rossi. IH is the second.

As someone who has worked with LENR (cold fusion) I find little to be grateful to Rossi for.

MFMP did not start due to Rossi but an attempt to look at MF's systems. It has morphed into a non-electrochemical study. Their work in the field is not very useful to others and I have not seen any innovative papers come out of them or materials to develop the field.

Most of the LENR seems to have suffered greatly in wake of Rossi's claims. I know of several researchers who had been quietly and slowly working away who ended up "put things on hold" because of Rossi's claims of extreme power levels. Why work on systems of a few watts when others claim MW? You just wait and see since if it was real then in perhaps 2 years it would be commercialized. (2 years of reduced effort when you are on your own funds is not too long if you have been working away for 25+ years) Even now if Rossi really had what he claimed, he could quickly commercialize it himself instead of just spending money on lawyers, condos, toupees and fake tans. Just a simple 1kW unit at COP>10 would be immediately useful and improve the lives in third world countries. He wants to just dangle carrots in front of people to pull his own cart when much of the world is starving.

"new flourish" is not useful. You look to hype, glitz, and extreme claims, but the truth is science and technology advances in the journals, papers, and sharing of knowledge. The work in LENR has been and continues to be done in small labs across the world and there is much real work done and shared within the LENR community. My guess is that you have never even attended an ICCF meeting or talked with those doing the work or tried to load hydrogen into a piece of metal but just sit and count hits on a blog.

Ah - another Planet Rossi swarm-pack.

Rossele - Defkalion turned out to be two scammers trying to outscam each other. IH was your peak opportunity to convert anything that you had into long term contributing value but you blew it because either you misrepresented the meager results you may have had or because you had nothing all along (most highly likely the latter) and went Peak Stupid instead. You continue to damage yourself while damaging others - its what you do. Look at the trail of destruction, imprisoned colleagues, ruined companies, ecological disasters, financial losses and ruined reputations in your wake. The gig is up and accountability is once again at your doorstep. You're going to have to pay this time and no amount of spin will save you or your crime family brethren.

Quote from ele

Surely, but the new flourish of discussion on the topic was restarted by Rossi with his JONP.

Hate him or love him, LENR people must be grateful to Rossi.

Even most of the MFMP activity is motivated by Rossi technology.

Defkalion was the first company held by Greek venture capitalist that has damaged Rossi. IH is the second.

Nice arguments Rossele (hat tip to Dewey). I'll go one better, because I think people should really express a lot of appreciation for the positive effects that AR has had.

AR has contributed to the activity of MFMP, many scientists, and many indipendent hobbyist experimenters (including myself). He has helped the economies of different nations through liberating these people of money with their activities. I spent a fair amount of my own money, as a result of AR, thus contributing to the US and Chinese economies.

So far, the biggest positive effect AR has had is in supporting the jobs of people in the environmental cleanup businesses in Italy. The millions spent there have surely been a great boost to the economy of Italy. All that tax money spent by the government, went to workers, who spent money in their daily living. It is truly an amazing positive impact that he has had there.

To add one final thing, he has provided an impressive economic impact in support of the attorney's involved in the case. Certainly, these monies will help support the careers and families of thee lawyers and all their support staff. All the money they will spend will help the economies of Florida and North Carolina.

Thank you AR, and thank you Rossele.