Rossi vs. Darden developments [CASE CLOSED]

Quote from maryyugo

How in the world do you know it "was entirely true"? Because Rossi said so? Not that it matters but Rossi clearly implied that the ecat was substituted for the heating element in a sizable boiler and functioned the same as the replaced element. The real issue here is what happened to this wonder? Who saw it? Where did it go?

Like Rossi's fictional high efficiency thermoelectric converters which were fictionally tested at the very real University of New Hampshire where nobody seems to have ever documented or commented anything about it, Rossi's magical heater, far as we know, has never been seen, photographed, preserved, tested or properly documented. Yet you, Alan, believe it was real. Why am I not surprised at that?

MY - all Alan was saying is that it was 'entirely true' that it produced heat (which is not contested). He said nothing about it producing 'excess heat', stating also that 'it didn't heat very much'. In fact, Alan's comment on this fact subtly points out that Rossi commonly speaks 'truth', but in deceptive ways (in addition to frankly untrue statements).

Quote from THHuxleynew

I guess it seems like that to you. But in reality he chooses his marks very carefully. Naive retired scientists. A journalist who wants to usher in the LENR revolution, a band of internet followers from a web site than bans anyone with contrary views. it is a great way to get true believers. And, with a worldwide internet audience, you can find true believers for anything.

You are changing the facts according to your will ... Experienced scientists and with a notable curriculum become "naive retired scientists", an able and respectable journalist becomes one who "wants to usher in the LENR revolution", ECW users become a "band" ...... with the worldwide internet audience we can find distortions of reality at every corner.

Quote from THHuxleynew

As for IH. You are right - while IH were interested it was better than he deserved, and better than anyone else. But again, Darden et al are not scientists, they are VCs wanting to give something back to the world, with the admirable ideal that LENR could save the world from global warming. These motivations are powerful, and real. It is ironic that now IH have exposed his lies, the fact that they were once interested is held up as proof that he must have something.

I'm always amazed at the innocence with which you paint IH people. Do you really think they want to save the world from global warming? Are you seriously convinced? IH and its various affiliated companies have the sole purpose of making profits. There would be nothing wrong if they did so legitimate, but the Campusbay case highlights how it is not always so .....

Quote from maryyugo

Thanks for the links to Dr. Qin's story. Her connection to all this is a mystery. From her background, she should have been able to recognize that a) Rossi was probably a fraud b) the ecat did not work or at least c) that the ecat had never been properly tested and d) that IH had not vetted the ecat properly. Perhaps, she knew all the above and Darden et. al. disregarded her advice. It would be fun to ask her but of course, she couldn't say.

I think it says volumes that she quit the IH job. She wouldn't do that if she had thought LENR, as funded by IH and Woodford, had any promise. Why walk away from an opportunity to participate during the early start of a potentially trillion dollar business?

Maybe she has been witness to the first positive tests and she knows very well that the reactors created by IH worked, as did the one in Lugano that was built by IH. Now, I do not know when she is gone .... maybe just when (and why) IH began denying the first positive results ...

Quote from THHuxleynew

'm sure Fred Flinstone will show that IH had some credibility issues as well, such as telling their investors the Flinstone IP worked when they supposedly thought it didn't, that kind of thing.

I'm pretty sure they never did that. Rossi-warnings were a Darden thing

I'm pretty sure of the opposite. Darden has always wanted to use the Doral Plant as an exhibition to entice investors. He is the first to say this, for example in this email addressed to Rossi (262-09 - February 19, 2015)

"Congrats on the startup! This demonstration will have a great impact, starting in about a month when we have the visitor from overseas!"

It does not seem to me the email of a person who intends to warn the visitors

Quote from Bob

There was no ERV in this contract, no reporting requirements, no COP, nothing. Why do you ignore this signed contract and keep stating there was this GPT?

IH's actions during the year were totally in line with a contract for the sale of heat. They did not need to complain about any reports as the contract did not require any reports.

Why was IH not surprised at the presence of an ERV? Darden exchanged various emails with Penon about the Doral Plant, then he received three reports and paid for them. All this was not necessary according to the Term Sheet, but everything suggests that the accords taken orally were very different. That's why we often talk about estoppel here.

Quote from oldguy

I see where he is heating an office for a few years but not a factory for years and nothng about if that specific heater was actually producing COP>1. I often have to cool my lab due to the instruments and equipment but they are not producing excess.

What's the point? Focardi says they have heated offices for a long time using the first prototype of E-Cat. I do not know where you read that Rossi and Focardi have heated an entire factory, but if you can heat a room you can also heat a factory, just use an appropriate number of reactors. Especially if these reactors have a COP 200, detail that obviously you have not notice......

Quote from Roseland67

How do you fake that much heat? Really?

You measure it with tools you supply and only you interpret the measured data.

In Lugano scientists used their own tools and personally interpreted the extracted data. Try again!

Quote from maryyugo

I've found the same sort of behavior in forums which promote psychic mediums who talk to the dead and similar quackery.

Except that psychic mediums who talk to the dead and similar quackery do not have dozens of institutions and scientists backing the claims, such as with LENR.

Quote from maryyugo

I've found the same sort of behavior in forums which promote psychic mediums who talk to the dead and similar quackery.

Whom you also visited for the purposes of trolling?

Quote from [email protected]

It doesn't matter where or when the row started for purposes of this particular discussion. The claim is that if Rossi had what IH wanted, they could just pay him the $89 Mil and they could get moving on LENR again. That ain't gonna happen.

IH has already paid Rossi for the general technology and for him to transfer that technology to them and in addition the rights (within most W Hemisphere countries) for any improvements on that technology. That is what the 11.5M was for. (it sure wasn't for just a Rossi controlled demo). At that stage it could have taken years to develop into a commercially reasonable system. IH owns the rights to the ecat and improvements. They did buy it.

The 89M was for a commercially viable system that could be produced and tested within a stated time period to show commercial levels of COP (>6) in away that was durable (year).

Why do people seem to say that they haven't paid Rossi for the Technology. What do you think the contract and payment of 11.5M total was for?

Quote from [email protected]

None of these guys thought to bring their own thermometer. Jed Rothwell was invited to a Rossi demo, and when Rossi saw that he was going to bring his own tools he uninvited Jed. I find it incredible that over these last 8 years not one of these guys brought their own thermometer to the party.

Maybe it's a just selective selection. The one who wanted to bring their one tools where not invited again. The ones left where the one that didn't think about bringing a thermometer.

I bit more seriously. You make it a bit to easy. It's not enough to bring a thermometer. If I remember correctly Mats actually brought a thermometer to the October 6 test. There are other unclear issues. What is the input power, how much of the steam is vaporized, an with the hotcat it was not possible to measure with an ordinary thermometer. My conclusion is that to make a convincing test Rossi can't be involved in any way when it comes to the test set-up.

It might have been enough with a thermometer, a timer, a bucket of known size and true RMS meter measuring the input if Rossi would have allowed sparging. But he never did.

Quote from [email protected]

That is evidence, and it can be brought up in court. The judge can rather forcefully get these 2 sides to take this trial off the books just by focusing on this offer supposedly that only exists in Rossi's mind.

That should satisfy most of the Anti-Rossi activists, shouldn't it? Rossi gets to keep his worthless IP, IH gets their money back.

I'm sorry to be this frank. But that sounds stupid in my ear. What make you think the judge could do such a thing?

And even if the judge could and would. What if Rossi then say. That offer isn't valid any more. Now I want to continue with this trial to get damages.

Quote from [email protected]

That is evidence, and it can be brought up in court. The judge can rather forcefully get these 2 sides to take this trial off the books just by focusing on this offer supposedly that only exists in Rossi's mind.

That should satisfy most of the Anti-Rossi activists, shouldn't it? Rossi gets to keep his worthless IP, IH gets their money back.

If that was true, then why didn't Rossi and IH do that back in Jan when they were in a judge ordered mediation?

A statement in a blog is not evidence unless filed filed in discovery and testified to.

People can say anything in blogs which may or may not be true- as you often do.

Quote from Bob

Kev,

Not to add to the fodder, but one has to stop taking "Planet Rossi" stories and accepting them as fact.

For instance, there is absolutely no evidence that IH is "striving to keep Rossi's supposedly worthless IP". Please provide links if you have any.

What is indeed the case, is that IH has ALREADY PAID $10 million dollars for Rossi's IP! This is in the court documents. It is not debated even by Rossi.

They HAVE the IP and there is no "striving to keep it".

Now, just because someone paid for something, does not make it worth anything. As mentioned, Bernie Maddoff sold billions of investment portfolios and they were worth nothing.

However, are you saying that IH should simply "return" all of the legal rights of Rossi's IP back to Rossi for nothing? That they should state, we paid $10 million dollars for this, but it does

not work, so we are simply going to "return the legal rights" and write off the $10 million?

This is absurd. Of course they will keep the legal rights until either Rossi pays them back (which there has been no evidence that he has offered, other than a comment on his blog) or Rossi provides them with the intellectual property that allows them to build working reactors. (This is not going to happened because Rossi has no working reactors)

So again, we must stick to the facts and to logic.

If IH had IP that really worked they would :

1) Gladly pay Rossi so they could start selling BILLIONS in cold fusion reactors!

2) They would start selling cold fusion reactors or lease the IP to manufacturers to build them for them and make billions.

3) Become larger than Apple.

They do not build reactors and sell them and make billions for the exact same reason Rossi does not do this in Europe! Because the eCat does not work!

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That's correct, talking about insult to injury, Rossi and his congregation thinks he should have his valuable hotdog cooker IP back (the only reason likely is to help further perpetuate the incessant and droning here by a few that rossi has any IP other than the hotdog cooker patent), after IH paid 10+ million for it; also IH can write off the $10+ million anyway, since anything to do with Rossi or his hotdog cookers have been nothing but a money and resource rat-hole (ie nothing profitable or any possibility of becoming profitable).

Quote from [email protected]

That is evidence, and it can be brought up in court. The judge can rather forcefully get these 2 sides to take this trial off the books just by focusing on this offer supposedly that only exists in Rossi's mind.

That should satisfy most of the Anti-Rossi activists, shouldn't it? Rossi gets to keep his worthless IP, IH gets their money back.

You really think that Rossi has 11.5M + legal fees for IH after buying multiple FL beach condos and spending who know what on legal fees, pinball restoration, paying JM expenses,......

And by what authority can the judge force them to mediation during trial after she did it back in Jan already?