[split] Norm against downvoting (and a little about the EM Drive)

  • Why not - but you should also agree, it's my freedom to use voting according to my free will - and not just for avoidance the jealous retaliations of harmed egos.


    Deal?


    Not a deal. As a moderator, I am trying to encourage you out of your obnoxious behavior. You are free to interpret this as jealous retaliation of a harmed ego. In interpreting things this way, I think you will have missed the point.

  • You see - and I downvoted you from the very same reason. I don't like vague OT posts which raise more questions than answers. If you have an idea, how the EMDrive and LENR can be related, why not write it right here? But if you don't have such an idea, why to post about it here? You've been downvoted for it and you'll be also downvoted for it next time. That's the deal.

  • I'm with Alain that if em-drive and LENR (as poorly understood new physics) are real then they seem to have almost nothing in common.


    They do however share one feature: they require significant new theory and have experimental evidence that is marginal and not accepted by mainstream science. They will therefore both attract people who find that combination attractive.


    As physics: emdrive breaks conservation of momentum, and has nothing to do with baryons. it could perhaps relate to some modified version of GR. It uses energy and distance scales which don't make quantum corrections look likely.


    LENR does not break anything except plausibility. The collection of phenomena attributed to it cohere more with various types of plausible experimental error than to any single new theory. But if it exists then it would seem to be related to some weird characteristics of solid-state lattices.


    You can never deny a possible link between two areas of not understood new physics, but in this case even if either one of these is real I'd put the chances of the other being not real at a good deal higher than that they are both linked.


    Happy New Year, try to forget politics, THH

  • You see - and I downvoted you from the very same reason. I don't like vague OT posts which raise more questions than answers. If you have an idea, how the EMDrive and LENR can be related, why not write it right here? But if you don't have such an idea, why to post about it here? You've been downvoted for it and you'll be also downvoted for it next time. That's the deal.


    It sounds like we're in agreement — we can continue in this manner if you like.


    I discussed how the two phenomena might be related here; perhaps you missed the post?

  • As physics: emdrive breaks conservation of momentum, and has nothing to do with baryons. it could perhaps relate to some modified version of GR. It uses energy and distance scales which don't make quantum corrections look likely.


    But does the EM Drive have something to do with leptons (namely, neutrinos)? Can this be ruled out at this point? If not, then the conclusion about breaking of conservation of momentum is premature. :)

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    I discussed how the two phenomena might be related here; perhaps you missed the post?

    Actually yes, thank you for notification. But your answer "

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    Allow me to assert counter to your assertion that LENR and the EM Drive are not connected, with an equally unfounded confidence, that the two are connected.

    " has still zero information value for me. Regarding your "downvoting for not being downvoted" game, I don't feel approved to advice anyone his personal attitude in this matter - and frankly I even have not time for such infantilities - so I leave your anouncement without comment. The EMDrive can achieve the thrust by releasing very lightweight bosons (scalar waves of Nicola Tesla) in high amount, as I explained before. The same bosons can also represent the lightweight portion of dark matter in dense aether model and recently this option has been proposed even with famous mainstream physicist.

  • Actually yes, thank you for notification. But your answer " ... has still zero information value for me.


    Thankfully that was not the answer!


    Regarding your "downvoting for not being downvoted" game, I don't feel approved to advice anyone his personal approach in this matter - and frankly I have not even time for such infantilities - so I leave your anouncement without comment.


    If you are not able to participate civilly in this forum, perhaps because your time is too short to really become acquainted with how things are done here, you are free to seek out other forums that will be better suited to your unique insights and talents. This is not Reddit. It's LENR Forum.

  • One good heuristic to link both experiments is "conservation of miracle", but it is not a law, just like saying that if there is two murder in the same village, of far away but the same way, probably the crimes are related...
    I don't see EmDrive and LENR in same village, but Eric find some similarities in cause of death. Neutrino are interesting commonalities (and possibilities for new experiments).


    McCulloch connects EmDrive anomaly with the anomalies corrected by Dark Matter and energy. I'm more convinced, but I'm already tainted by MiHsC, as I am by Ed Storms theory. Theory shapes the way you consider and link evidences.


    One line of experiments to do with LENR and EmDrive can be detection of neutrinos.

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    your time is too short to really become acquainted with how things are done here, you are free to seek out other forums

    The unspoken rule, that the moderators can be never downvoted isn't so exceptional at most forums, including Reddit. Certain downvotes are simply less civil than others - I can live comfortably with it :-)

  • The unspoken rule, that the moderators can be never downvoted isn't so exceptional at most forums, including Reddit. Certain downvotes are simply less civil than others - I can live comfortably with it


    You have a choice as to whether your behavior is an imposition here. You were subtly notified that in downvoting legitimate, good-faith comments, you were breaking the norms here. You have control over whether you are perceived as a constructive influence or not. Your attitude is off, and I have no recommendations to you for how to fix it, but it would be nice if you did.

  • OK, just summarize the facts: The only person (me) here who had something to say to actual topic (and who also said it) is accussed from nonconstructive attitude with you. Whereas you feel offended with downoting of your - otherwise well minded and thought provoking comment - for the lack of substance. During it my single downvote had been "rewarded" with dozen of your ones. If you agree with this interpretation, you or someone else could delete previous posts which aren't related to this topic (including this one) and to continue on topic as if nothing would happen.

  • OK, just summarize the facts: The only person here who had something to say to actual topic (and who also said it) is accussed from nonconstructive attitude with you. Whereas you feel offended with downoting of your - otherwise well minded and thought provoking comment - for the lack of its substance. If you agree with this interpretation, you could delete all previous posts which aren't related to this topic and to continue with topic as if nothing would happen.


    What you provided in reply will have been perceived by many (most?) as having little value. Opinions may differ on whether my comment had substance or not, but that is neither here nor there. You should stop downvoting legitimate, good-faith comments.


    Deleting comments is not my forte, and doesn't seem needed here; I will leave that to others on the team to decide. I think this discussion has been a good meta-discussion in highlighting a norm about avoiding downvoting that for most participants has been readily apparent, but for a few holdouts is not quite sinking in.

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    I'm not offended at your downvoting, I'm annoyed at your behavior, which is unconstructive

    Well, maybe - just maybe - it's constructive - just from longer term perspective. From short term perspective you can appreciate neither my above remarks regarding topic, neither my downvote of the comment type "I think A is related to B without further reasoning". You apparently didn't realize, that someone could get annoyed with this type of post as well. For me the personal stance isn't such an important - its reasoning is. Without reasoning we are building the religion here - not understanding. From the same reason I also occasionally downvote the - also otherwise well minded and informative - posts of AxillAxill. I just want to have people thinking about things despite it hurts sometimes. Got it?

  • I don't mind certain people being annoyed with my comments, such as yourself. People are annoyed by all kinds of things. Some people are annoyed by true statements. The downvotes are a huge distraction, and I have seen a few people, you among them, who use them when they aren't warranted.

  • From the same reason I also occasionally downvote the - also otherwise well minded and informative - posts of AxillAxill. I just want to have people thinking about things despite it hurts sometimes. Got it?


    I don't think we're making any progress here. I don't get the impression you understand. If I downvoted every post I disagreed with here, I would downvote perhaps 95 percent of yours and most others as well. This is not a good way to go. You should reconsider your approach and attitude.

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    The downvotes are a huge distraction, and I have seen a few people, you among them, who use them when they aren't warranted

    IMO you're overly sensitive - you would survive at Reddit not a single day with such an attitude. One sometimes cannot be usefull without being hated by many if not most of people. Just take the Shawyer or Flaishmann & Pons, who are objected so many as a crackpots - despite they're just these ones who are actual builders of future civilization. I'm not downvoting people as a punishment or from negativism at personal basis, but from my own strategical perspective. I can appreaciate even skeptics, but they should provide some logics for their stance. The people who demonstrate laziness in reasoning get downvoted the most - no matter if they're LENR positive or not.

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    If I downvoted every post I disagreed with here, I would downvote perhaps 95 percent of yours and most others as well. This is not a good way to go.

    But I didn't downvote every post of yours.. How many times I actually did it? Maybe you got shocked, because I downvoted you first time instead.

  • IMO you're overly sensitive - you would survive at Reddit not a single day with such an attitude. You sometimes cannot be usefull without being hated by many if not most of people. Just take the Shawyer or Flaishmann & Pons, who are objected so many as a crackpots - despite they're ones who are real builders of future civilization. I'm not downvoting people as a punishment or from negativism at personal basis, but from my own strategical perspective.


    You clearly aren't getting it. This is not Reddit. You're imposing your expectations from another forum on this forum. I do not care what kind of behavior is acceptable or not acceptable on Reddit in the present context, because this is LENR Forum, and not Reddit. I'm not concerned about the downvote I got at the top of this page. I'm trying to get you to understand a norm here, for this forum, which is LENR Forum. Communication is not occurring.

  • What a waste, all this brain power involved in a petty tit-for-tat. Just think, if Abd were allowed back on, you could focus your ire on him, instead of each other. :)


    FWIW. I think there is enough room for EMDrive here. I have not a clue how it could be related to LENR, but if Eric thinks it may be...well then, that is good enough for me.