Zephir,
Hopefully you understand that few...even among former supporters, have a reason anymore to try and defend Rossi anymore. For good reason too. You, and a handful of others on ECW may be the only ones left to even try. It has just gotten so ridiculously obvious that Rossi is a con artist, you may find yourself talking to yourself soon.
I myself, am so sick of the guy. Do not understand how you maintain your loyalty to him. He is such a sleazebag.
Display MoreExhibit 5 is objected for example here.
This is indeed easy to say. Why?
But you got a link to Fabiani and his claims already. If you don't want to be considered an ignorant, why to admit it so willingly?
Fabio Penon is the author of the Exhibit 5, which reportedly contains "all the facts I need" according to you...
Actually from Thomas Darden of IH himself : he wants to keep the ECat license so badly despite all efforts of Rossi to return him money and pull the license back.
Do you have some explanation for it?
"Penon is the author of Exhibit 5" Again you have your facts exactly backwards. Exhibit 5 is from Murray to Penon.
You seem to stay confused over the most fundamental of facts.
QuoteWell, there are a few hundred pages on this forum explaining that.
Can you be more specific about it? Or is it supposed to be the whole argument?
QuoteDo not understand how you maintain your loyalty to him. He is such a sleazebag.
Once again, I don't care about people here or there but about technology. This is the only stuff, which is interesting for me.
Now the question is, could A. Rossi have working technology in hands? If yes, why he should be considered a fraudster?
QuoteExhibit 5 is from Murray to Penon.
But Murray isn't signed as an author of this document. It's unsigned material after then.
I would start with emissivity. That is the main issue.
The total hemispheric emissivity was conflated normal spectral emissivity, which ultimately causes an error that almost exactly cancels the excess heat reported when corrected.
There are other minor issues that confound exact solutions, but they can be ignored in the first pass.
Zephir, I am glad you cited references 
We all need to do it more often. Except the given links do not open, any ideas? I am logged into google.
/even r
QuoteThe total hemispheric emissivity was conflated normal spectral emissivity
OK, thanks for tip - I'll look at it tomorrow.
Rigel: My link to Exhibit 5 comes from this repository of IH vs A.Rossi court documents. You''ll locate it there easily.
Zephir thanks- the old links just go to a blank page. Is anyone one else having this issue I am using FF browser. If anyone else is having the issue maybe a tinyurl will help.
But which doc in the main are you referencing? (sorry to be pain, but I read your ideas). I am interested in why you still believe in Rossi as others.
Rigel: There is only one document named Exhibit 5. If the link isn't permanent, you may not see the document linked by another person - this is the feature prohibiting cross-linking and hotlinking the documents from/to another pages. I don't believe in Rossi, I believe in ECat technology.
QuoteHopefully you understand that few...even among former supporters, have a reason anymore to try and defend Rossi anymore. For good reason too. You, and a handful of others on ECW may be the only ones left to even try. It has just gotten so ridiculously obvious that Rossi is a con artist, you may find yourself talking to yourself soon
In my opinion the IH doesn't exist for further spreading of cold fusion, but for gaining its control with USA government. I know about many companies, which did buy the alternative energy technologies just for closing them into a treasury.
Rossi is indeed greedy and incompetent, but the primary problem with introduction of cold fusion is elsewhere and we can see it everywhere, not just at the case of ECat technology.
This is my guess of the whole situation and now I'm just waiting for its outcome.
Zeph - does some unrestrained open-field running er...trolling. I think we should let him just run with the ball for awhile and see where he ends up.
I'm enjoying as good comedy and heck... we all need a laugh every now and then.
My stance follows from situation, when the cold fusion isn't allowed to publish in mainstream peer-reviewed journals for whole century and all reports about it get censored in popular media.
If we would have normally running scientific research, then I would be opened to accept, that IH isn't just some virtual company established to serve as a trap for Andrea Rossi and that failure of both tests of ECat represents only personal failure of A. Rossi.
But we have no such normal situation for whole decades. Of course I have no illusions about trustworthiness and competence of A. Rossi and the secretiveness of ALL cold fusion inventors plays more than well with tendency of establishment to cover it under the carpet.
I presented all my indicia for the ECat technology being real and you also presented all your indicia for not being real - but this is all just a less or more qualified guess.
You can laugh as you want - but the reality is, you have no more information about all of it than anyone else here - so that every stance about it will be just a guess.
Nobody of us has still something to laugh at in this moment - and just don't want to laugh prematurely. He who laughs last laughs best.
BTW My stance regarding Rossi is very similar to stance regarding McCarthy from Steorn.
I'm informed quite well about his story and even his situation is analogous to Rossi by now: his investor wants his licence - despite its priceless, as everyone is willing to say right now - after public failure of his technology.
And McCarthy just doesn't want to gave it - despite it could simplify his financial situation a lot. This isn't exactly the behavior, which one could expect from ruthless fraudster and his victim.
One doesn't have to be very smart for to realize, that the reality can be quite different from the public opinion in a given moment.
In my opinion the IH doesn't exist for further spreading of cold fusion, but for gaining its control with USA government. I know about many companies, which did buy the alternative energy technologies just for closing them into a treasury.
Big problem for LENR will be, if Rosi win litigation.
There will begin further never ending litigations.
Zeph - your argument might have a chance if you were not so steeped in what Rossi has fed you. You need to look at the man's background then apply what facts are on the ground right now. That is a good signal (3 Sigma) as to where things are heading.
Continued, unabated trolling makes your's a weak, fact-less voice.
QuoteYou need to look at the man's background then apply what facts are on the ground right now. That is a good signal (3 Sigma) as to where things are heading.
Rossi he faced 56 trials through 1996 and he was acquitted in 51 of them, he was acquitted on toxic waste dumping charges in 2004 (1 , 2).
MILAN - Acquittal "because the fact does not exist" for Andrea Rossi (Riciclaggio Rifiuti Tossici Assolto Andrea Rossi)
Emilio Spaziante - the judge who sent Rossi in jail has been himself jailed...
Somewhat strange outcome for "notorious fraudster" of Andrea Rossi type- don't you think? How did you calculate the 3 sigma, btw? Wasn't some fraud involved in its calculation too?
Rossi he faced 56 trials
The fact that Rossi has had 56 issues with litigation is pretty revealing in itself!
I am unaware of where this number comes from, but if you are correct, that is quite telling.
As the saying goes "where there is smoke, there is fire"!
While an honest researcher might fall into a lawsuit, having 56 of them is not a normal pattern for someone who has clean hands.
Whether he was cleared or not, it does tell some story..... the question is what?
Has Cravens, Brilliouin, MFMP, Piantelli or LFH had even 1 lawsuit? Heck, I do not even know if Steorn or Defkalion had any lawsuits against them, much less 56!
@Bob: It was all just about the same Petroldragon story - Rossi isn't recidivist, he is just stupid and prone to cheating with investors.
January 8, 1992: Rossi indicted with 8 others, based on false invoices related to building a factory. 1 | 2
April 12, 1992: Rossi found guilty, sentenced to 4 months, suspended, for illegal transport, storage, but acquitted on illegal dumping. 3 | 4
March 24, 1993: Rossi sentenced to 8 months in prison, suspended, for violating the rules related to waste disposal. 5 | 6
March 9, 1994: Rossi's Petrol Dragon company forced to shut down over toxic waste issues. According to the story, there was no sign of Rossi actually converting waste into fuel, and one of his customers had claimed to be purchasing the fuel from Rossi well over a year after Rossi's plant had been shut down. 7 | 8
March 28, 1995: Another story describing the industrial waste left in silos by Rossi's company, Petrol Dragon, which had supposedly been converted into fuel. 9 | 10
March 29, 1995: Background of Rossi's jewelery business, and the charges of fraud related to phony gold shipments. 11 | 12
March 30, 1995: Rossi and four others accused of fake invoices for sale of tens of kilos of gold. 13 | 14
April 6, 1995: story about charges of money laundering and tax evasion related to false billing for the transfer of 46 billion ingots of gold (2,323 lbs.). 15 | 16
May 24, 1995: Rossi arrested for "criminal association aimed at the false invoicing and tax evasion." 17 | 18
January 25, 1996: Rossi complains about the loss of Petrol Dragon, claims innocence. 19 | 20
February 20, 1996: Preliminary hearing on gold fraud charges. 21 | 22
April 25, 1996: Article with Rossi's boasts of a process to convert waste into fuel, and description of the warehouses storing the unprocessed waste. 23 | | 24
September 25, 1996: Article about criminal conspiracy to commit fraud and false tax invoices, along with five accomplices. Rossi claimed to have shipped "60 billion" (Lira?) of gold which didn't exist. 25 | 26
March 19, 1997: Rossi's conviction for illegal storage and disposal of toxic waste was upheld by the Court of Appeals. 27 | 28
May 23, 1997: Rossi sentenced to 2 years, 8 months for tax fraud. He created fictitious invoices between four companies he managed. 29 | 30
February 24, 1998: Two of Rossi's employees get plea deal. 31 | 32
October 23, 1998: Article about the cleanup efforts from the toxic waste sites left by Rossi's company. 33 | 34
June 1, 2000: Described as "Fugitive in the U.S.", Rossi is arrested in Rome for aggravated fraud and bankruptcy fraud" Accused of being "on the run" for about a year. Accused of leaving "dozens of stores in Northern Italy overflowing [with] industrial sewage." 35 | 36
October 20, 2000: Rossi sentenced to 8 years for fraudulent bankruptcy. 37 | 38
October 19, 2003: Article about how Rossi's customers are having to pay millions of Euros to pay for the cleanup of the toxic waste dump sites left by Rossi's company. 39 | 40
November 27, 2004: Rossi acquitted on toxic waste dumping charges.
41 |
42
Quote
The sorcery with smoke is not helping here very much, as it can be easily reversed on behalf of Rossi.
There are multiple indicia, that A. Rossi has actually working technology in hands. He presented many details, that only Piantelli or Me356 could be aware off.
There are multiple indicia,
Thank you for the source links and recap. I appreciate it.
I was unaware of the gold, bankruptcy and multiple fake invoice charges. I had read a little on the waste disposal, but none of the others.
However, I am not sure I can agree with you that "it can easily be reversed on behalf of Rossi"! We see much of the same story currently!
Fake factories, fake invoices, fake customers and so on. There IS a pattern here and it IS repeating!
While I agree that past history does not prove guilt, it certainly does provide a pattern and one can and should take heed of it!
The old saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" has truth to it! Criminals can change, but more often they continue doing the same crime! I can only shake my head in bewilderment! 
Nice work Zeph - I don't believe that Rossi was ever acquitted of the Fraudulent Bankruptcy conviction - those 8 years in prison must have flown by.
Zeph - missed one of your observations regarding confidence levels in the R vs IH case. IH has multiple paths to victory based on the still developing body of evidence. Rossi's path is becoming very narrow if it even still exists at all.
