Just for fun: Let's bet, what we can expect from Rossi in February... anyone interested ?

    The ECat license that belonged to Ampenergo Inc. was signed over to Industrial Heat in exchange for a promised of three payments to Rossi and Leonardo. The payments totaling $100.5 million were to be made in three installments. One of $1.5 million at the start of the agreement, a $10 million payment after the successful completion of an e-cat validation test. $89 million to be paid after a 350 day test Guaranteed Performance Test.


    First of all, the agreement did not give Industrial Heat the intellectual property of A.Rossi and ECat technology. Instead it gave the company the right to commercialize the ECat technology in North America, Central America, South America, the Caribbean, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. An ECat unit was shipped from Fererra, Italy to Raleigh, North Carolina for the Guaranteed Performance Test in August 2013. Industrial Heat paid Leonardo $1.5 million on October 26, 2012 but it failed to carry out the test; requiring the agreement to be rewritten. The guaranteed performance test was finally carried out in Miami, starting in February 19, 2015, at the facility of an unidentified company. Industrial Heat paid $1,000 a day to conduct the test.


    The Guaranteed Performance Test was successfully completed on February 15, 2016. A. Rossi claims that "The ECat operated successfully for more than 350 days during the test. By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the test was substantially greater than fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same period,” and these results were verified by Engineer Fabio Peron, who is described as the “expert responsible for validation” or ERV. Peron and two experts hired by Industrial Heat Barry West and Fulvio Fabiani monitored the test and helped operate the e-cat during the testing. On March 29, 2016, Rossi therefore demanded that Industrial Heat pay him $89 million to comply with the license agreement.


    Industrial Heat is now claiming that ECat did not pass the tests so it is under obligation to pay the money. But for what the IH needs the intellectual property of A.Rossi, if it cannot / doesn't want to pay for license and this IP allegedly doesn't work? Such an IP would be useless for IH anyway. Industrial Heat was formed on October 24, 2012, without Rossi’s knowledge. Darden and Rossi signed the ECat license agreement on October 26, 2012, before most of us were aware of it. A. Rossi is alleging that Industrial Heat was set up with the express purpose of stealing and commercializing his technology. Darden and Vaughn intentionally misled Rossi with claims that Industrial Heat and Cherokee were the same company; when in reality they were separate organizations. The IH did pay for testing E-Cat unit and portion of money for independent one-year standing Guaranteed Performance Test of it. But Industrial Heat broke a license agreement when they refused to pay Leonardo Corporation $100 million for the rights to ECat, illegally copied Rossi’s technology, and has illegally obtained a patent for Rossi’s intellectual property.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    First of all, the agreement did not give Industrial Heat the intellectual property of A.Rossi and ECat technology.


    Zephir,


    Hmm, where did you get this from? The $10 million IH paid was not only for the successful Validation Test in April 2013, but also for all Ecat IP to be transferred to IH. That transfer did actually take place. Then IH could do with it as they wished.

    Zeph remains in the weeds. $1.5 purchased the 1MW unit. $10M was paid for a perpetual paid up license, including derivatives for everything ECat in the agreed upon territories after the 24 hour/ Lugano deception and the $89M was a bonus payment if Rossi could prove a commercially viable product which he failed on miserably. The paid up IP was not transferred and Rossi tried once again to trick IH on the $89M. He is now busted on all counts and will be held accountable. I am really looking forward to the testimony of the experts.

    Quote
    The $10 million IH paid was not only for the successful Validation Test in April 2013, but also for all Ecat IP to be transferred to IH


    Any source?


    Quote

    $1.5 purchased the 1MW unit. $10M was paid for a perpetual paid up license


    Any source? Note that these two interpretations of $10 million payment contradict each other. Licence is not IP.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    Any source? Note that these two interpretations of $10 million payment contradict each other. Licence is not IP.


    Sure Zephir, how many do you want? :) I could give you one from the judge in her own accounting, or straight from the agreement. Or does Dewey's post suffice?


    I sometimes do not provide a source for a reason. If it is provided they too often ignore it because it is fed to them. But if you make them go look for it themselves, they seem to appreciate it more. Kind of like that saying about leading a horse to water.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    BTW It's good you're moderating the comments, but their original content should still somehow remain accessible for inquisitive people like me (by moving them to read-only trash section or something similar).

    If a comment is controversial in terms of science I would have left it alone or- under some unknown circumstance- green-inked it but left it readable. When a comment only contains puerile insults meant to provoke it goes in the memory hole.

    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    Darden and Vaughn intentionally misled Rossi with claims that Industrial Heat and Cherokee were the same company; when in reality they were separate organizations. The IH did pay for testing E-Cat unit and portion of money for independent one-year standing Guaranteed Performance Test of it. But Industrial Heat broke a license agreement whenthey refused to pay Leonardo Corporation $100 million for the rights toECat, illegally copied Rossi’s technology, and has illegally obtained apatent for Rossi’s intellectual property.


    You are wrong: IH is just a tag in from of the Cherokee building = the legaly needed letter box...


    At the point in time a made my research: IH was nothing else than some pieces of paper in a drawer of a Cherokee employee.


    I repeat this every two months, because of the common (wide spread) FORUM insemnia /memory loss.


    I do realy not undestand why "real" people discuss about a vapor company (IH) that has only one target: Fooling researchers to make profit.

    Wyttie attempts another morph in changing the narrative. Anyone who continues to promote or make this argument demonstrates their cluelessness on corporation structure and international investing. Planet Rossi is doomed on this mirage as well.

    Wyttenbach


    IH has shelled out real money to real researchers doing real work, as well as in the Rossi circus. So it seems whatever you claim their intent, their reality is to fund LENR research. I'd expect that is more than you have done?

    Quote

    The $10 million IH paid was not only for the successful Validation Test in April 2013, but also for all Ecat IP to be transferred to IH.

    Nothing like this follows from the License Agreement among Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corp., Ampenergo, Inc. and Industrial Heat LLC

    You never bothered to read it, do you?


    sepCcWA.gif

    Quote
    Anyone who continues to promote or make this argument demonstrates their cluelessness on corporation structure and international investing.

    What we know, the Industrial Heat Company didn't exist three days before signing the Licence Agreement with A. Rossi.

    It's just papery company.

    Quote

    As a firm believer in evidence THH, do you have any news on this?


    Not directly. But their PR statements would be untruthful if they were not doing this with their money. Deceiving investors is something neither they nor Woodford would be able to do.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    This has often been said. I would like to know even roughly who, what, how much and where though.


    There was an interview in Infinite Energy of Tom Darden by Marianne Macy sometime back. In that piece, Macy wrote:


    Quote from Marianne Macy

    Macy: You said in your speech that Rossi is not the first person involved with LENR that you have supported. That’s a widespread misconception. You are also supporting good longtime researchers in this field like MIT’s Peter Hagelstein, Dennis Letts, high profile newcomers like Brillouin among others. You’ve said IH wants to support more work in this field. Is one of your goals to get these people to collaborate? Would you approach the people you are supporting or may support and say, “We will support efforts at collaboration”?


    I also hear that Yeong Kim (Purdue) has received some funding.

    • Official Post

    Zephir,


    Of course I read it (agreement), but after yet another read, I think I see now what you are getting at. No where is it said clearly that IH bought the Ecat IP outright, as you point out. It is more like they bought the right to know the contents of the IP (Rossi's secrets), to use it, and even to develop it as they want. Even the judge said roughly the same: "The Agreement gave Industrial Heat license to manufacture products and use the intellectual property related to Rossi and Leonardo’s energy catalyzer (“E-Cat” or “Plant”) technology".


    But then again, the agreement gives IH such great latitude to do with it whatever they wish, it is as if they own it anyways. Section 7.1 allows them to participate in "patent prosecution, and maintenance" as they did with the Lugano report, while Sect. 1.1 gives them rights to "other Ecat IP"...which I take to mean what they improve on over the "licensed patents" (the ones Rossi brought to the table)", and that "the duration will be unlimited".


    Similar to a car lease-to-purchase, yet different in that the person leasing the car is given all the IP associated with the car, the specs to build it on their own, allowed to improve on it, and patent those improvements as their own. Better than owning it outright if you ask me.


    So you are off the hook. You made a very astute observation. IH does not own the Licensed IP. My gosh, hopefully IHFB won't read this, or we may never hear the end of it. :)

    Not ownership, but full knowledge and exclusive use of it in the designated territory. Including any new IP that derivates from it.


    Back on topic, still no update on ECW about Rossi's delayed presentation.

    Quote from Shane D.

    In some perverse way, I think he gains satisfaction by fooling others. When you look at his history...which now, in hindsight, PetrolDragon, and the TEs were most likely scams also,

    Again another guy repeating the same story...... Some FACTS to remember.

    1) Rossi was cleared by all chargers about Petroldragon. Italy has even refunded him because of the damage and the guy that persecuted him was eventually arrested-

    2) Petroldragron technology was not a scam. The same technology (now public domain) is used also now.... and you can even buy plants to make petrol from plastic see e.g. http://www.huayinenergy.com/pr…to_Oil_Pyrolysis_Machine/ , TE devices are not a scam also, they are still used but efficiency is very low. (see e.g. http://eu.mouser.com/applications/thermal_energy_harvesting/ for an update about modern TE)

    • Official Post

    Ele,


    I have been on this Rossi story a long time now, and know it well, including his history...although I somehow missed the silver, and apartment fire part. Early on, I took the stance that it all looked suspicious, very suspicious, but decided to give Rossi the benefit of the doubt until such time the truth of Rossi's Ecat would be revealed. Well, I have now concluded Rossi is a deceitful (no doubt about that) con artist, his Ecat, at best, just another lab effect curiosity, all of which allows me to revisit his past, and conclude that if he is a scam artist now, he was then.

    Quote from Alan Smith

    This has often been said. I would like to know even roughly who, what, how much and where though. Otherwise it is a claim that is difficult to get too excited about. As a firm believer in evidence THH, do you have any news on this?



    I have posted this before but checkout Darden's interview with M. Macy

    http://www.infinite-energy.com…/pdfs/DardenInterview.pdf

    "You are also supporting good

    longtime researchers in this field like MIT’s Peter Hagelstein,

    Dennis Letts, high profile newcomers like Brillouin among

    others." There are others but this should get you started.

Supporting researchers for over 20 years
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