E-Cat Fuel - Hydrogenated Nickel as the "Advanced Derivative" Product of JM Products.

  • Oh come on...

    We know nothing of the sort. It appears Rossi told Bass that he was cooking platinum sponges, but Bass clearly has no clue what is going on (if anything) at the facility and is simply asking Rossi what he is supposed to say.

    And the invoice for nickel powder was just a camouflaged payment for tax preparation fees incurred by JM that Rossi didn't want it to be known that he was paying for (read the email - there was no nickel powder).

    Pure theater.

    Most likely is that there is absolutely nothing going on there...

  • @MrSelfSustain

    Good find, spillover catalysis is an important phenomenon and may well be relevant. As for your comments on manufacturing at Doral - and your observation that the situation is unlikely to have been truly represented to the world- I quote:-

    "On the downside, if this scenario is true, he would have been VERY misleading to Industrial Heat and other parties. If only very limited manufacturing of E-Cat fuel was happening behind the wall, he was basically exaggerating and twisting the truth. It also opens up a whole slew of additional questions. For example, the nature of James A. Bass's employment, what actual work he performed, and if he spent any significant time at the plant at all."

    You are probably right there, too. But it hasn't stopped the downvoters. :(

  • Most of the down voters don't really care if Rossi scammed anyone. They only care to see it proven that the E-Cat technology doesn't work. However, this new evidence has zero bearing on the reality of the technology itself. So they will continue bashing anyone who dares suggest Rossi's technology is a reality.

  • Quote

    Such a process could take long periods of time and continue for many cycles. Heating, vacuuming, pressurizing with hydrogen, and repeating these cycles could take many days or weeks to produce optimized fuel

    Well, I presume not.

    reason 1) If I'm informed well, the Lugano tests did run with extremely simple fuel preparation: Rossi just did come in, put the power in (on free air!) and the test could begin. No ultrasounding, no vacuuming or similar BS...

    reason 2) All these laborious steps done at low temperatures would immediately lose meaning, once the reactor would reach working temperature (above 1200 °C). The catalyst must be able to retain its properties even at such high temperatures, so its state must be very robust in fact.

    IMO you're speculating way too much here. The secret platinum/palladium component of nickel catalyst supporting the atomic hydrogen activation: yes, why not (note that the corona discharge in me356 style would work in the same way even without expensive platinum). But the activations steps of the resulting catalysts couldn't be very complex - or they wouldn't survive its actual working conditions.

  • THEDEBATEISUSELESS: How much Ni powder do you think Rossi made given 1MW @ 24/7 for 350 days?

    From James Bass's resume (which you uncovered first, thank you) and disclosed emails from the civil suit it's clear that James Bass was no more than an actor fed lines by Rossi to give the impression that JM Products was a legitimate company engaged in a commercial activity.

  • Quote

    The insertion of the fuel into the reactor was simple. The fuel had been processed carefully before hand.

    It couldn't consist of vacuuming once the fuel has been transferred to reactor from air.


    Don't forget Rossi's first reactors operated at much lower temperatures than the later hot cats

    Irrelevant, Lugano test did run at 1400°C. Look, I also know something about preparation techniques and I can imagine, which one can survive the temperatures 1400 °C and which one not.


    you must have bubbles or tiny clusters of high pressure hydrogen in the lattice

    Nope, you must not have - and you even cannot have them at 1400 °C - few degrees bellow melting point of nickel. This is all just an armchair twaddling separated from reality.

  • Quote

    These structures would have been created during lower temperature hydrogenation and processing... Even at high temperatures hydrogen can remain in the lattice.

    You're free or even welcomed to twaddle here what you want - but please, can I ask you to use the IMO phrase before each such a claim? This is all just about (well minded) speculations of yours and it should be handled so. It has no single one experimental support, which you could link here. It also brings no experimental predictions - on the contrary: the high temperature onset of Lugano reaction contradicts the assumptions of previous fuel preparation, internal structures or cavities, because at such high temperatures all these structures would get destroyed.

    That is to say, I can understand your way of thinking, but don't have to believe you at all. My own theory doesn't require the presence of any cavities.

  • My conclusion that the E-Cat technology works does not have anything to do with the one megawatt plant at Doral working or not working. I'm talking about the E-Cat technology as a whole.

    There is no information available on any other e-cat "technology" test. Unless you count Lugano, which did not work. The only data from any test by Rossi that has ever been revealed was from the 1-MW tests. I saw a sample, as did several others. Unfortunately I do not have permission to upload it, but you read all about it in Exhibit 5. You can reconstruct it entirely, as I said.

    You have no basis to think that "e-cat technology" exists. Not one report. Not one number from any instrument. Only rumors and empty claims by Rossi.

  • Ultra dense hydrogen (UDH) loading might be accomplished by loading UDH directly into a capillary tubes made of refractory materials without the need to first store the UHD in nickel cavities through spillover techniques. In this case, the receptor is a custom made high temperature material that Rossi claims to have invented . Note that while physical mixtures of a primary hydrogen spillover source and a secondary receptor demonstrate moderate storage capacity, adding a bridge to improve the contact between the support metal and the receptor serves to double or triple hydrogen storage capacity on the receptor. The bridge would be a noble metal.

    Holmlid uses iron oxide doped with potassium to produce UDH and iridium as a substrate bridge to store the UHD on its surface. Rossi might use platinum (an iridium equivalent) as a substrate that directs the UHD to flow directly into his refractory capacity tubes.

    This method of fuel loading might answer how Rossi gets his fuel into those tiny tubes.

  • Zephir,

    Dude. Are you blind? Have you read how many times on this forum I've said, "in my opinion" or "according to my thinking." I've repeated those phrases a million freaking times! Also, I've made a hundred disclaimers that I'm not a physicist, an engineer, or a lawyer. So for goodness sakes, why are you continuing to antagonize me? Because I don't buy into your glow discharge worshipping cult? There is a huge amount of LENR literature that describes how these cavities (described as hydrogen clusters or dislocations in Industrial Heat's own patents purchased from Miley) are the site were nuclear reactions can take place. The idea of small zones of exotic hydrogen species inside of the lattice isn't something I've made up. It's in the literature! And you know it!

    Also, have I ever said there are no other ways to induce LENR? Of course not! As I've said before, glow discharge could very well produce LENR reactions. However, I'm focused on the forms of LENR that involve the creation, filling, and stimulation of nanocavities (dislocations, super abundant vacancies, voids, defects, etc) in the lattice. This is the avenue of LENR that I'm pushing and I'll continue pushing this avenue, because I'm convinced it can result in enormous power densities of a thousand watts per gram of fuel.

  • The exotic neutral particle is well characterized in LENR experimentation. John Fisher has detected it floating free in the steam above an electrolytic cell. Also, Keith Fredericks along with many other experimenters have imaged these particles free floating on photo emulsion plates.

    It makes sense to me that this exotic form of hydrogen nanoparticle can be extracted from the nanocavity that produced it and moved independently around without the need of storage in nickel. The spillover method might be a way to free the UHD from the cavity that produced it and concentrate it inside another method of storage.

  • thanks for this tread @mr self sustain. I appreciate the ideas are speculative but they are certainly very interesting possibilities.

    It's clear from AR comments in his blog last April that he is not working with Johnson Matthey but just brought some products from them.

    If Nickel Oxide is used I wonder if the catalyst preparation method patent 20160375426 here interesting.

    it may be totally irrelevant though. But I did wonder if JMP are making this.

    Or if they are making Nickel Acetate or something else that is used in the process.


    But Im speculating to much I think. Your idea thoug is really worth exploring though I think

  • There is another particular that fits into the long term heat treatment of Rossi fuel. Holmlid states that it takes a long time to activate the UDH after to has been created. He uses a laser to provide the energy that the UDH needs to become LENR active. Up to weeks of energy charging is required to fully activate the UDH.

    Rossi might need to do the same type of energy charging in his process. Rossi might need to keep the UDH at a high temperature for weeks before it is fully charged.

    The long term energy accumulation requirement before the LENR reaction becomes active was seen in the meltdown story that Russ George tells happened to Fleischmann as told here:

    Witness of Fleischmann & Pons "Meltdown" (4-inch hole in concrete floor) long before Utah conference


    By the late fall of 1984, the experiment had been running continuously for several months. At one point, Pons raised the current from its nominal rate of 0.75 amperes to 1.5 amperes, and at the end of the day, sent Joey to turn off the current.

    They left the laboratory for the night. Joey came in the next morning and found the experiment in a shambles. Fleischmann and Pons reported in their Preliminary Note, “. . . a substantial portion of the [palladium] fused (melting point 1,554C), part of it vapourised, and the cell and contents and a part of the fume cupboard housing the experiment were destroyed.”

  • Quote

    You are simply trying to antagonize me... why are you continuing to antagonize me?

    Don't be hysterical: nobody is antagonizing you: this is public forum and you should be prepared for feedback, even for the negative one. This isn't disadvantage of public forums - but their feature, which you can get nowhere else. Of course, if you don't like it, you can still post your thoughts somewhere else without problem.

  • Don't be hysterical: nobody is antagonizing you: this is public forum and you should be prepared for feedback, even for the negative one. This isn't disadvantage of public forums - but their feature, which you can get nowhere else. Of course, if you don't like it, you can still post your thoughts somewhere else without problem.

    This is your first warning, Zephir_AWT: please moderate your tone and attitude. You, too, are free to go to another forum.

  • According to MrSelfSustain, the speed critical step is the dissociation of molecular hydrogen into atomic one and I'm inclined to believe in it. Patterson cells did also use alternating layers of nickel and palladium (which is splitting the molecular hydrogen well). The fast speed of corona discharge reaction (Quark-X / me356 reactors) can have origin in the same effect. Now the question is, if the vanadium is extraordinarily good in splitting of hydrogen into atomic one like the palladium? If not, then it would utilize another effect. In my experience, the vanadium was nowhere used as an effective hydrogenation catalyst.


    for my understanding the main problem is the speed of unloading

    This may be an interesting insight, but I didn't understand it's logic. How did you come into such a conclusion, please?

  • Self sustain,

    If Rossi et al: has said and confirmed this than that is great, however, if not, it is simply another guess to justify an argument.

    In my opinion, and I'm only 1 person, everyone wants the Ecat to function as Rossi indicated, there is zero downside, however, there are so many holes in "Planet Rossi" development/implementation plan that most think It is a scam.

    I don't think even the Rossi zealots believe him anymore, they just can't believe they were fooled so they come up with preposterous scenarios to fit their arguments.