PNN (Non Newtonian Propulsion) - a competitor of EmDrive

1st Official Post

    Hello to everybody,

    I'm Sergio and I own a blog that follows the development of PNN, an electromagnetic thruster that, according to its inventor Emidio Laureti, is 7/8 times more efficient than EmDrive.


    I'd like to share his point of view regarding E.M propulsion phenomenon, EmDrive included.

    I think his view is different from other hypothesis I usually read about the working principle behind Shawyer's invention.

    I noticed that in order to explain the EmDrive many scientists and simple enthusiasts venture in sophisticated physics suppositions: space time bending, gravitational distortions, quantum virtual plasma etc..

    In my humble opinion however the device is basically a rearranged microwave oven.. does it really need such elaborated hypothesis?

    What if the phenomenon is actually "simpler"? Please don't get me wrong: I don't want to lessen the EmDrive (neither the people who study it) because I believe this invention is revolutionary and once fully developed it'll change the face of the world forever. What I want to say is that explanation of EM propulsion might lie in good ole electrodynamics.. After all, Shawyer himself designed it with the radiation pressure in mind.


    So what about PNN?

    This form of electromagnetic propulsion is obtained inside a capacitor plates through the use of high amounts of current in VHF.

    Due to the location of the propelling force, one of the first problems ASPS (Laureti's DIY association that is investigating and developing EM propulsion since 1992) had was to measure the displacement current between the plates. After years of testing however the association reached the baffling conclusion that displacement current does not exist!

    According to Laureti, Maxwell invented this phenomenon in order to make his theory complete and, even worse, everyone took for granted that Maxwell was right without taking any real measure, and this is still true today. Furthermore, he's not alone in this claim: for a more detailed explanation please read this.

    If one takes away this current, the EM propulsion becomes "easily" possible (any kind, thus EmDrive and Cannae as well).

    Laureti's theory is based on the non-existence of displacement current.


    Unfortunately I can't post it because for the moment it's a secret (for me too btw) for competition reasons.


    Laureti however is going to put into public domain all the details after these 3 scheduled major objectives will be completed:


    1) Creation of a "PNN Ltd" to sell small PNN thruster already competitive with ion propulsion

    2) Grant of a strong international patent.

    3) An adequate capital to defend the patent and to compete on international markets



    Disclaimer: I'm not here for fundraising, ASPS is not seeking money from single persons.


    The Association is willing to organize roadshows for aerospace industries, who are required to test PNN prototypes with their own scientific teams (it's mandatory).

    If the company is convinced ASPS will look for a collaboration to start the industrial production of PNN thrusters.

    @MrSelfSustain


    Indeed. If one takes away displacement current we need something else to support E.M waves propagation, otherwise they'd violate the energy conservation law.


    By the way do you know any good source where I can find information about aether? I would like to explore the concept.

    SergioZ82, you write that the explanation you're drawn to is "good ole electrodynamics". Does that mean that it involves photon recoil? (Elsewhere someone has estimated that photon recoil is insufficient by several orders of magnitude to explain the thrust.)

    @MrSelfSustain

    Thank you for the link, I downloaded the file and at a first glance it looks interesting I'll take my time to read it.

    I never heard of it and I'm going to learn more.

    I remember I read about Podkletnov's work on a generic science magazine in the 90's but over the time I totally forgot of its existence. The article described a device that could reduce the weight (few percentage points) of an object placed above it. I can't remember correctly but it said Podkletnov noticed the phenomenon by chance after he observed that the smoke of his cigarette moved oddly when above the device. Was that his impulse generator? Is he still researching it?


    I've never thought of EmDrive as an asymmetric capacitor but that would explain why Laureti claims his theory can describe EmDrive too (but, as far as I know, PNN doesn't use asymmetric capacitors). He also says that people who try to figure out the EmDrive thrust origins are looking in the wrong place (sci-fi theories: gravity, quantum etc..). I'm not speaking on his behalf but I think aether might be actually involved.


    Here's a NASA paper about generating thrust with capacitors (but if I read correctly it says it basically works as a lifter):


    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/….nasa.gov/20040171929.pdf


    What do you think? Did they underestimate the phenomenon or was it a totally different thing?



    Erik Walker

    No, it doesn't involve photon recoil.

    I was pointing out that Shawyer has been able to build the EmDrive relying on classic electrodynamics concepts. He didn't think, for instance, to quantum virtual plasma. Maybe, in my personal opinion, if he relied on quantum physics the EmDrive wouldn't have worked at all.

    My whole point is that for me (basing on Laureti's claims) the place where to start to understand the EmDrive is in electrodynamics and if it can't explain it it's because some concepts must be expanded/revisited, like the phenomenon of displacement current.

    For Laureti too photon recoil is insufficient to explain EmDrive and he believes it works "by chance", that is Shawyer has built a contraption that inadvertently dimly exploits the real phenomenon.

    I'm aware of thruster of Emidio Laureti for many years (YT video). In my opinion the independent demonstration is needed in similar way, like at the case of another electromagnetic thruster of Stoayn Sarg or thruster of prof. Nassikas, because all these devices involve magnetic field, which would interact with Earth geomagnetic field. I.e. the thrust observed could be actually sorta compass effect. So far I never saw the demonstration of these thrusters with various orientation with respect to geomagnetic poles, which calls for caution - this is the first thing, which you must do here. While I believe, that the demonstrated effects are real, such an incompetence bothers me.

    What the Biefeld-Brown, Shawyer, Woodward, Sarg, Nassikass or Laureti drives have in common from perspective of dense aether model? The interaction of Dirac/Weyl/Majorana electrons with quantum fluctuations of vacuum.


    The general trick is very simple and its understanding cannot be replaced with pile of math, no matter how large it is: In dense aether model the vacuum represents the mixture of transverse waves of light and longitudinal waves (scalar waves ) and the material objects resemble a pieces of foam floating freely at the water surface. While the transverse waves always follow Lorentz symmetry and special relativity, the longitudinal waves always violate it - the only problem is, they're as weak, as the density fluctuations (Brownian noise) at the water surface. The metals interact strongly with transverse waves of light, because the electrons inside them can move freely in spatial dimensions in the same way, like the transverse waves propagate. Whereas longitudinal waves can propagate only through temporal dimensions of space-time, so that they require material, the electrons of which do behave similarly. If we would constrain the motion of electrons in spatial dimensions, then these electrons will be forced to move in time dimension only and they will interact with longitudinal waves preferably. The physical systems, which have motion of electrons limited in some way therefore behave like the paddles for vacuum and and like detector/miror/generator for scalar waves in the same - just symmetric way - like the material with freely movable electrons for transverse waves.


    Got it?

    jeOlHoP.gif


    There are many ways, in which the motion of electrons (charged particles in general) can be constrained. Some materials like the semiconductors, topological insulators or graphene have charge carriers constrained to narrow planes or even stripes, so that they behave like the natural sources of Dirac electrons. The Podkletnov or Poher impulse drives utilized this behavior first. But similar systems can be formed artificially if we constrain the electrons in motion with external electrostatic or electromagnetic field. For example, in charged capacitors the electrons within dielectric are also attached to one side of capacitor, so that they cannot move there and the charged capacitor therefore may serve as a detector or antenna for scalar waves (Hodowanec). And if we attach two magnets in repulsive arrangement, then the electrons withing their magnetic domains will get constrained in their motion too - and this is IMO the way, on which Lauretti drive is working. This drive consist of pair of coils, which create opposite magnetic field and the impulse during its formation exerts reactive force, i.e. the thrust in similar way, like the introduction of electric pulse to Podkletnov/Poher drive.

    Two famous experiments related to Laureti drive: the famous Boyd Bushmann experiment (consored out of YouTube, low quality backup, some replication) and detection of dark matter drift with pairs of mutually repulsing magnets of David Cameron. Both experiments are based on the same principle: the pair of magnets in repulsive ("monopole") arrangement should interact with vacuum and exhibit drag. You may also visit the another thread about EMDrive for additional insights.


    R5pIMjv.pngZSgnaFbl.jpg


    Picture above illustrates scalar wave detector utilizing the pair of electromagnets in repulsive arrangement: the general idea here is, the vacuum fluctuations get enhanced between magnets in monopole arrangement - so that they can be detected with germanium diode detector like the noise. Gregory Hodowanec did utilize charged capacitor instead, but the principle remained the same.

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    at appox after 4 min Lockheed scientist talks about his experiments with magent monople

    Quote

    Here's a NASA paper about generating thrust with capacitors (but if I read correctly it says it basically works as a lifter). What do you think? Did they underestimate the phenomenon or was it a totally different thing?


    NASA device works even in deep vacuum - so it cannot act like the lifter only. According to Tajmar, it's thrust is composed of two components and the second one is related to Biefeld-Brown asymmetric capacitor effect. In dense aether model the charge of capacitor leads into formation of Dirac fermions at both plates, which interact with vacuum fluctuations in both direction. The different size of capacitor plates would induce the assymetry into this interaction, which would generate the thrust. Regarding the proposed explanation of EMDrive with asymmetric capacitor model: the thrust of EMDrive points to the wider end with compare to asymmetric capacitor, so it cannot be directly apply to it.


    Albert Einstein: "Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler"....

    Quote

    @Nozin: Good starting point: https://arxiv.org/ftp/astro-ph/papers/0410/0410365.pdf

    From the article linked: The proposed principle of the universal attraction forces is worked out on the following basis: Cosmic space is filled with a cosmic matter (ether) which forms an infinite spatial system of torsion vortexes. The physical characteristics of the ether are [1]: density – 8,85·10-12 kg/m3, pressure – 2·1032 Pa, temperature – 7·10-51 K.


    The luminiferous dense aether model is related to sparse aether in similar way, like the water surface to Brownian noise at the water surface. It's very dense (or it couldn't mediate the energetic waves of X-ray and gamma radiation) and very hot in essence. And it doesn't FILL the cosmic space - it FORMS it instead. I don't think, you can deduce very much from sparse aether models, because these models are very simplistic in their consequences: they replace complex aether behavior by single aspect of it. The sparse aether allows only longitudinal waves, even the light waves are way too energetic for being incorporated into it. The sparse aether essentially represents the lightest portion of dark matter in dense aether model.

    Zephir_AWT :


    First of all, thank you for your exhaustive replies.


    The Sarg's engine behaves almost like Laureti's TdS1 in the video you linked! The big difference however is in the capacitor configuration. For those who don't know Laureti's device, here's some pictures (source)


    TdS1 VF 2:


    scheme3.jpg



    Two of the three plates of the double face capacitor (the three discs you see bulging from the center of the prototype):


    disc.jpg?w=768&h=377


    As you can see the plates are not asymmetric.


    I've never heard ASPS talking about geomagnetic effects. However in their assessment procedure they are willing to change location and orientation of the prototype during measurements as the potential financier decides. Also, Laureti stated that it's mandatory to test the device in vacuum chambers first and into geostationary orbit after in order to dispel al doubts, so I can reasonably presume that they have already taken into account the geomagnetic effects.


    About the quantum physics/dense ether model I prefer to take some time to read the linked documents before I reply. Laureti never linked PNN with any other subject except electrodynamics. However he also let slip that if one removes displacement current then we must resume the concept of aether:


    Quote from E.Laureti

    Only something similar to the electric field propagates in the vacuum and when it hits a conductive material it makes its charges to oscillate, thus generating the magnetic field.


    The assertion that it’s only the electric field who propagates in vacuum implies the existence of the aether. Without it and the displacement current in fact the propagation of electromagnetic waves would violate the energy conservation law.


    About the scalar waves detector: it's an interesting concept but again I'll have to learn what a "scalar bubble" is, first.


    About NASA testing the asymmetric capacitor: I wonder why after all this time it hasn't been tested in space yet. I mean, it's seems like a relatively simple and light device to send on ISS (for example) for further testings.

    Quote

    The Sarg's engine behaves almost like Laureti's TdS1 in the video you linked!

    And also Woodward drive, which also contains capacitors within electromagnets. The capacitors create Dirac electrons, the magnetic impulse sets them in motion, the beam of scalar waves gets thrown back and the thrust is generated by reactive force. Many reactionless drives work on similar principle - just the geometric proportions of electromagnets and capacitors differ.

    Quote

    I'll have to learn what a "scalar bubble" is

    Just an area of vacuum rich of scalar waves (there is relative excess of longitudinal waves of vacuum over transverse ones, i.e. more virtual neutrinos than virtual photons). It's also sometimes labeled as an area of negative energy and it exhibits contraction of time (it attenuates noise and many processes should run faster there). It should be also detectable with Juday-White warp interferometer.

    Quote

    And also Woodward drive, which also contains capacitors within electromagnets. The capacitors create Dirac electrons, the magnetic impulse sets them in motion, the beam of scalar waves gets thrown back and the thrust is generated by reactive force. Many reactionless drives work on similar principle - just the geometric proportions of electromagnets and capacitors differ.


    I have to specify (but you probably already know) that PNN is different from Woodward's drive because it doesn't contain moving parts.


    Quote

    Just an area of vacuum rich of scalar waves (there is relative excess of longitudinal waves of vacuum over transverse ones, i.e. more virtual neutrinos than virtual photons). It's also sometimes labeled as an area of negative energy and it exhibits contraction of time (it attenuates noise and many processes should run faster there). It should be also detectable with Juday-White warp interferometer.



    Thanks.

    You mean that interferometer can indirectly detect those waves, right?

    Quote

    PNN is different from Woodward's drive because it doesn't contain moving parts

    Woodward's drive actually contain moving parts neither - as Woodward himself realized, that the motion of capacitors with piezoeffect isn't the crucial point of his technology and his later drives are already designed like fully unmovable solid state devices.


    kpa96Rb.png


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    You mean that interferometer can indirectly detect those waves, right?

    In dense aether model the scalar waves behave like the sound waves at the water surface: they deform the water surface - but they also attenuate the effects of Brownian noise and accelerate the small objects on it. As such they speed up the spreading of surface ripples across this noisy area - so you have positive lensing, but blue shift of transverse waves and the local contraction of time here. The dark matter is supposed to behave in the same way (compare here, for example).

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