Snark all you like, PFD. The fact is that all these technologies work and utilize the same primary mechanisms.
BLP update
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This calorimetry test gives a COP of 4.8 with 100kw overflow.
This is far from being exciting.
The first SUN-CELL could go into self-sustain mode. May be that (old) one is now somewhere else (military ..) and they have to maintain/draw a picture of doing something real.
For people understanding the field they simply do confusing stuff. The self-sustain mode just needed adding two more tricks and it would still work in LENR mode...
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A current result is an output of 120 kW for 25 kW input corresponding to about 100 kW of excess power from the hydrino reaction with no-hydrogen-addition runs showing energy balance (zero excess power).
This PR means nothing, scientifically. 125kW out, 25kW in is entirely compatible, also, with net energy balance, since the time over which the two powers are measured is not stated.
With weasel words like this, confusing power and energy in a pulsed system, is it surprising BLP are not taken seriously?
THH
I totally agree that they need to give a full report and that not sharing such information only hurts them. However, I'm sure if they were using a pulsed input that they carefully calculated what the average level was during the time period compared to the output power. They have not confused anything.
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This is far from being exciting.
The first SUN-CELL could go into self-sustain mode. May be that (old) one is now somewhere else (military ..) and they have to maintain/draw a picture of doing something real.
For people understanding the field they simply do confusing stuff. The self-sustain mode just needed adding two more tricks and it would still work in LENR mode...
Remember, that those older systems had a tendency to destroy themselves in a relatively short time period. Randell Mills talks about this in one of the lectures he gave a university. He showed a video of the molten silver system in self sustain mode (a brilliant plasma ball existing after all the power was cut off) and went on to talk about how it would burn holes in Tungsten plates. Moreover, he went on to say that they have had to throttle down the systems to keep them from destroying themselves.
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Remember, that those older systems had a tendency to destroy themselves in a relatively short time period. Randell Mills talks about this in one of the lectures he gave a university. He showed a video of the molten silver system in self sustain mode (a brilliant plasma ball existing after all the power was cut off) and went on to talk about how it would burn holes in Tungsten plates. Moreover, he went on to say that they have had to throttle down the systems to keep them from destroying themselves.
The Russians understand the swirl flow. May be he should take some lessons in plasma physic first and try to understand the crossing (back-) current induced rotation and how to contain the particles ! Further he should not use to much silver as a fine spray would be enough.
There was once a famous man (Steven Jobs) that used the 7 most advances technologies of it's time to build the famous so called "NEXT computer". I said at that time already: 4 out of 7 hits - and logically the company failed - but left some nice fruits behind like Small-talk 80. I see the same problem with Mills. To many new ideas and no serious engineering background in fast prototyping.
Talking of photovoltaic light conversion before you have the clean light was an alarm signal that any serious engineer would teach it's time to leave. Even worse if you use silver or any medium you can't contain it's a total no brainer.
Doing glow discharge (= SUN-CELL) with massive mass flux is also a not brainer and something you really don't want to have. If he does not manages to bring H*-H* to LENR fusion he will fail. With D*-D* it is way more easy as it will always fuse, even if you do nothing - but half life is > 18 hours. H*-H* is a dead (-ly) end.
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I understand the attempt at sarcasm, but equating everyone making excess energy claims with the unmentionable Italian, ends becoming tasteless.
True, I was just trying to make fun or Rossi. I will apologize to Mills, who has a chance of success.
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Snark all you like, PFD. The fact is that all these technologies work and utilize the same primary mechanisms.
Rossi's system definitely uses a different mechanism, which is pure BS. Lumping him in with everyone else is perjury.
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since the time over which the two powers are measured is not stated
This has been standard operating procedure (SOP) for Mills' group for years, possibly decades although no data at all was the usual SOP in the more distant past.
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True, I was just trying to make fun or Rossi.....
No need, he makes fun of himself these days.
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Seems a shame to see all those years of engineering going to waste - maybe at this late stage we could put our collective LENR brains together and come up with a prototype suncell design which would actually work?
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Remember, that those older systems had a tendency to destroy themselves in a relatively short time period. Randell Mills talks about this in one of the lectures he gave a university. He showed a video of the molten silver system in self sustain mode (a brilliant plasma ball existing after all the power was cut off) and went on to talk about how it would burn holes in Tungsten plates. Moreover, he went on to say that they have had to throttle down the systems to keep them from destroying themselves.
I would like to put the "self sustain" idea to rest. There is no self sustain with BLP's reaction, at least nothing remotely comparable to what Rossi claims. The high energy photon emitting Suncell plasma exists for (as I recall) something on the order of hundredth or a tenth of a second after the high electric current stops. This is itself very unusual and indicates a high energy reaction is occurring to sustain the plasma after the electric field is turned off. But then another pulse is required very soon, to wipe away charge buildup from the ionized catalyst, which would inhibit further reaction. (As I understand it.)
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The Russians understand the swirl flow. May be he should take some lessons in plasma physic first and try to understand the crossing (back-) current induced rotation and how to contain the particles ! Further he should not use to much silver as a fine spray would be enough.
There was once a famous man (Steven Jobs) that used the 7 most advances technologies of it's time to build the famous so called "NEXT computer". I said at that time already: 4 out of 7 hits - and logically the company failed - but left some nice fruits behind like Small-talk 80. I see the same problem with Mills. To many new ideas and no serious engineering background in fast prototyping.
Talking of photovoltaic light conversion before you have the clean light was an alarm signal that any serious engineer would teach it's time to leave. Even worse if you use silver or any medium you can't contain it's a total no brainer.
Doing glow discharge (= SUN-CELL) with massive mass flux is also a not brainer and something you really don't want to have. If he does not manages to bring H*-H* to LENR fusion he will fail. With D*-D* it is way more easy as it will always fuse, even if you do nothing - but half life is > 18 hours. H*-H* is a dead (-ly) end.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is H*-H* supposed to do that leads to a deadly end?
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I totally agree that they need to give a full report and that not sharing such information only hurts them. However, I'm sure if they were using a pulsed input that they carefully calculated what the average level was during the time period compared to the output power. They have not confused anything.
If history is an indicator, Mills will invite validators to participate in the SunCell experiments, and they will write their own reports. Mills won't call on them until he is exceptionally happy with a particular protocol and outcome. As it is, he is still clearly exploring different approaches.
Yes, average power, thank you. Some people like here cannot seem to fathom that simple concept.
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Pardon my ignorance, but what is H*-H* supposed to do that leads to a deadly end?
I answered this many times before. The problem is the 56-Fe + H* that some people measured as 57-Co or 57-Fe. It's a physical chimaera that could do harm in a biological environment.
H*-H* Needs to be contained until it is fully converted in a LENR reaction.
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This PR means nothing, scientifically. 125kW out, 25kW in is entirely compatible, also, with net energy balance, since the time over which the two powers are measured is not stated.
Power is an instantaneous measurement. It is the rate of energy production, at a given moment or on average. It is not measured over time. That would be energy. It is like speed compared to distance. Speed is the rate of travel; distance is the total length of movement. See:
125 kW is 5 times larger than 25 kW. The duration of input and output was reportedly the same, so output energy was 5 times more than input. That would not be the case if there was energy storage, with input starting first and continuing for a while with no output (or the opposite). But as I understand it, that is not what was reported.
(It was 5 times more assuming there was no experimental error.)
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I would like to put the "self sustain" idea to rest. There is no self sustain with BLP's reaction, at least nothing remotely comparable to what Rossi claims. The high energy photon emitting Suncell plasma exists for (as I recall) something on the order of hundredth or a tenth of a second after the high electric current stops. This is itself very unusual and indicates a high energy reaction is occurring to sustain the plasma after the electric field is turned off. But then another pulse is required very soon, to wipe away charge buildup from the ionized catalyst, which would inhibit further reaction. (As I understand it.)
Watch Mills presentation when he speaks at a university on YouTube. He announces "this is when we turned off all input power" or words to that effect. However, the giant plasma ball continues to exist for minutes. I think this can happen because when he pushes the reaction hard enough LENR reactions take place. Also, when it comes to the process you are describing, once you create a sufficiently powerful plasma ball in the negative resistance regime, you wouldn't have to pulse the system. The ion acoustic oscillations that are produced in any circuit producing a negative resistance and a plasma ball would do the same thing.
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Watch Mills presentation when he speaks at a university on YouTube. He announces "this is when we turned off all input power" or words to that effect.
Oops. I missed that. I wrote above:
"That would not be the case if there was energy storage, with input starting first and continuing for a while with no output (or the opposite)."
That would be "the opposite" (output with no input -- or "heat after death" as we say in cold fusion). If that is occurring, and if output power is 125 kW while input is 25 kW, then total energy is more than 5 times input, because output continues at 125 kW after input falls to 0 kW.
(As I said, if there was input with no output, with energy storage, the overall balance might be zero, which is what THH claimed. However, his definition of power was incorrect.)
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output power is 125 kW while input is 25 kW, then total energy is more than 5 times input,
How much bigger than 5 the energy output /input is..
depends on the data..times temperature..
the devil in the details awaits a few runs... Maybe three weeks?
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LeBob wrote: This calorimetry test gives a COP of 4.8 with 100kw overflow.
This is far from being exciting.
I disagree, even as just a science experiment, if this could be replicated, it would be very exciting.
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Oops. I missed that. I wrote above:
"That would not be the case if there was energy storage, with input starting first and continuing for a while with no output (or the opposite)."
That would be "the opposite" (output with no input -- or "heat after death" as we say in cold fusion). If that is occurring, and if output power is 125 kW while input is 25 kW, then total energy is more than 5 times input, because output continues at 125 kW after input falls to 0 kW.
(As I said, if there was input with no output, with energy storage, the overall balance might be zero, which is what THH claimed. However, his definition of power was incorrect.)
I should clarify that the video I'm referencing was another Suncell, not the one they have recently shared data from. I will try to get you the video.
