Early NiH Scamming: The Unfounded Work, Fake Hydrogen Absorption, and False Test Results.

Quote from ele

Reading that abstract seems that they obtained positive results.

It would be illogical to report negative result and then plan an automotive application.

Not being expert in this technique I have searched the net to understand more about DSC and found that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…tial_scanning_calorimetry

Seems an extremely good measuring system well tested over the years in a vast number of applications.

So I think that their results are quite reliable.

I hope that you are correct. The lack of them mentioning the discovery of excess heat in their abstract concerns me. The fact they are mentioning automotive applications does possibly indicate they detected some level of excess heat, but the abstract sure seems less than enthusiastic. My fear would be that they performed only a limited number of tests, barely tested out various fuel processing techniques, didn't incorporate a method of piggybacking an RF signal on the resistor to help dissociation/ionize the internal hydrogen, and will present a low COP the cynics might claim -- totally ridiculously -- a chemical effect rather than nuclear. With a modest amount of money and labor (especially for a wealthy company like Nissan) several simple methods could be used to optimize the fuel, enhance hydrogen absorption, and produce a much more powerful reaction.

Maybe I'm just being overly concerned, but I want to see the TRUE potential of the Rossi Effect replicated for all to see. Like Songsheng demonstrated before apparently vanishing and going dark, the Rossi Effect is capable of self sustained operation. I would be thrilled if Nissan put very little specific information in the abstract because they want to surprise us with amazing results.

Quote from robwoudenberg

The devil may be in the details.

The big question is in what state Hydrogen is combined with Nickel:

1. Atomic state Hydrogen
2. Rydberg state Hydrogen
3. Ultra dense state Hydrogen

These different states may not have been known or thought of while doing experiments and publishing data.

Well, we know one thing -- ordinary molecular hydrogen doesn't get absorbed into the nickel.

My guess is that when atomic hydrogen penetrates the surface of the nickel and migrates through the lattice it can enter tiny nano-scale pockets, join with other hydrogen atoms, and be transformed into Rydberg state or ultra dense state hydrogen.

I wonder if certain groups might already be preparing a "SHUTDOWN M. Nakamura" website just in case Nissan is about to publish overwhelmingly positive results. I don't put it past the cynics to try and bite off more than they can chew by falsely accusing Nissan of producing a flawed report. They may even try to say, "Nissan's report is so bad it is not even wrong." But once we can set off a string of replications so they start happening like dominoes, they will eventually have to concede the reality of the effect.

Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

if certain groups might already be preparing a "SHUTDOWN M. Nakamura"

No body has started up a "shutdown Brillouin", or a "shutdown MFMP", or Cravens, Miles, Ahern or Storms site! Why are you saying they will with Nakamura?

Because of Rossi critics?!?

Your attachment with the Rossi "must be real" mantra versus the legitimate challenges that legitimate critics have put forth against his documented deceptions has colored your thinking black and white. It seems you think one is either 100% against LENR or 100% for it! You need to step back and re-examine your logic.

Almost all here on this forum want LENR to be real. There is no reason for us not to want it. Silly conspiracy theories are just that.... silly.

However, most here also realize that for LENR to advance, it needs to be taken seriously and with scientific integrity. Rossi has stained that integrity something awful. So there are some who see this and are simply trying to correct it.

Supporting a deceiver does not help the field!    If one pushes illogical thought long enough, things become clouded, so much so that conspiracy begins to take control (as seen lately) and unfounded accusations are pushed where not deserved.

There is only ONE person responsible for all of Rossi's problems, both image and working relationship problems.... that is ROSSI himself! Not reasonable critics!

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No body has started up a "shutdown Brillouin", or a "shutdown MFMP", or Cravens, Miles, Ahern or Storms site! Why are you saying they will with Nakamura?

Because of Rossi critics?!?

Because none of them have produced, as far as I am aware, a power density or COP anywhere near that of the Rossi Effect. This makes some people extremely jealous. There are some people who have a VERY DIM VIEW of Rossi who can't imagine HE is the person who figured out the Holy Grail of LENR. Some people simply can't differentiate between the technology as a whole (not specifically the Doral test or any other singular test) and the inventor. What I'm saying is that I believe there MIGHT be some people who are so angry at Rossi there is a slim chance they might just attack Nakamura and try to discredit his work because it could provide evidence for the Rossi Effect.

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Almost all here on this forum want LENR to be real. There is no reason
for us not to want it. Silly conspiracy theories are just that....
silly.

Nope. It is not silly. Jealousy is a super real phenomenon. There could possibly be supporters of LENR in general that would be willing to dismiss Andrea Rossi's core technology along with him as a person/businessman because of their distrust or hatred of him. Don't get me wrong. If he really did mislead everyone -- including the readers of the JONP -- about basically EVERYTHING (except the fact excess heat of some amount was produced which I am convinced must have been the case) in regards to the Doral test, then I'll personally be VERY IRATE TO A HUGE DEGREE. However, I now must say two things. First, I want ALL the evidence to be presented (not just cherry picked emails from both sides) in the jury trial before coming to any final personal conclusion on the manner. Secondly, even if Industrial Heat is correct about EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of Doral being totally false and misrepresented, I am NOT willing to dismiss the overall Rossi Effect. I'm convinced the Rossi Effect is real and has been replicated in the past. I'm not an engineer or a scientist, so anyone and everyone should feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt. But since I'm convinced the effect is real, I'm always going to give Andrea Rossi FULL CREDIT for re-discovering the work of Focardi-Piantelli and enhancing it in many logical and rational ways. For example, enhancing the surface area so more than .01% of the nickel fuel could participate in the reactions, adding sources of atomic hydrogen, adding lithium as a secondary fuel, etc.

Not matter how upset I may become due hypothetical future revelations, I absolutely and totally refuse to EVER lump together Rossi the person and his technology.

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However, most here also realize that for LENR to advance, it needs to be
taken seriously and with scientific integrity. Rossi has stained that
integrity something awful. So there are some who see this and are simply
trying to correct it.

I'm convinced that Andrea Rossi has already advanced LENR tremendously from the technological view point. Replications by Parkhomov, Songsheng, Stepanov, Me356, other Russian teams, and now possibly -- although they have not yet published their results -- Nissan, confirm the Rossi Effect is a reality, in my opinion as a non-engineer. Now, it is very possible or even likely he has been less than honest or deceptive in some ways about certain issues. Maybe it will be proven in court that he behaved in a highly manipulative way. But this does nothing to refute the fundamental reality of his overall technology. Again, I'm not talking about the performance of Doral or any of the issues about whether it was or was not the official test that could result in a payment. I'm talking about his basic techniques and combinations of materials and electromagnetic stimulation methods being capable of producing excess heat.

People can be complicated. People have have strengths and weaknesses. I know people who can donate large amounts of food to homeless people in dangerous areas out of the goodness of their heart but lie through their teeth to people about personal matters -- even in church! Rossi can have an absolutely real and valid technology that he has told the truth about in terms of performance/behavior and possibly -- if it is confirmed by the trial -- behaved very, very badly as a businessman. Everyone has different sides of themselves.

We won't learn the full truth until the trial. Until then, I think the hateful remarks and insults flying back and forth on this forum should cease. We know only a tiny fraction of the overall truth about the whole situation.

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Supporting a deceiver does not help the field!   
If one pushes illogical thought long enough, things become clouded, so
much so that conspiracy begins to take control (as seen lately) and
unfounded accusations are pushed where not deserved.

The illogical thought is to lump Rossi's technology and Rossi's business practices (good or bad) together and then throw the whole lump into trash bin. In addition, it is very possible Rossi has been deceptive or has exaggerated about certain issues, while telling the basic fundamental truth about the performance of his technology as a whole (again, not specifically Doral or any single test). The existing replications and upcoming revelation of Nissan's results may help confirm that he has told the truth about the technology.

What truly hurts the field is trying to dismiss NiH for a wide variety of possible reasons.

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There is only ONE person responsible for all of Rossi's problems, both
image and working relationship problems.... that is ROSSI himself! Not
reasonable critics!

I disagree with the word ALL. Some portion of Rossi's problems could very well be his own. I do not doubt this possibility for a minute. Perhaps, even many of his problems could be his own. But if his technology does really work and has been verified by replications (along with possible upcoming successful replications) yet is being falsely dismissed, that is not just Rossi's problem but a massive problem for the entire LENR community. In that case, a huge travesty is taking place. And this travesty wouldn't be ALL of his own doing IF (big if here) other parties KNOW it is real and are dismissing it falsely.

"Neither has Rossi! His own data proves he has nothing."

If Nissan produces positive replication results from a combination of Ni-LiAlH4 and more such results start rolling in, I think it will become more and more difficult for people to say that he has nothing. By having nothing, in my mind without over analyzing the statement, that means that he has no method right now at his disposal of producing excess heat. If many other groups start showing excess heat with this combination, it will be tough to say that for some unknown reason Rossi was never able to get it to work but THEY were.

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His data proves he has not "figured out" anything. It is blatantly,
obviously, irrefutably FAKE. Fake, fake, fake. I am amazed that you and
others cannot see that. His data is outrageous. How bad would it have to
be before you agree it is fake? If pressure of 0.0 bar and the exact
same temperature for days on end does no persuade you, what would?!?
Does he have to make the pressure negative, and the temperature 10
million degrees C?

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Jed. I am having to take a deep breath to compose myself.

When I say I'm convinced Rossi's technology works, I'm not specifically talking about Doral. I'm talking about his technology as a whole. However, with you, it seems that the entire plausibility of Rossi ever producing excess heat in any of his hundreds and hundreds of tests revolves around the Doral test. This is a very incorrect view point in my opinion. The Doral test could have possibly (we need all the information that will be presented at the trial) been very "fishy" so to speak. Perhaps, even very manipulated or deceitful. Hypothetically, let's even say it was totally false. This doesn't mean he didn't produce excess heat in other tests PREVIOUSLY or didn't produce excess heat in other tests AFTERWARDS. If IH's position is proven that the Doral test was a total and absolute hoax is proven true (something I'm not convinced of) then that only means THAT SPECIFIC TEST was problematic or totally false. It does not impact all of his other tests!

The entire reality or falsity of the Rossi Effect does NOT revolve around Doral.

The really of the Rossi Effect also does NOT revolve only around Andrea Rossi: the basis of the effect stretches all the way back to the results of Piantelli, Focardi, the scientists that worked with them, and even the early tests of Stremmenos. Already, a number of parties have claimed to replicate the Rossi Effect. In the future, perhaps Nissan and maybe other parties may announce positive results. A formula might even be provided that could allow LOTS of people to replicate. In my opinion, the Rossi Effect may be about to take on a life of its own.

Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

This makes some people extremely jealous

Why would anyone be jealous of Rossi? I have never met him nor likely am I ever going to.

Are people jealous of the approximate 50 legal filings against him BEFORE the IH affair?

Are people jealous of the continual deceptions of fake customers, fake sales of plants, fake engineers, fake tests and fake certifications? All of which

were accused of Rossi BEFORE the IH affair. A pattern has been established here!

What is there to be jealous of? Why would TC, THH, Paramoidal, etc. etc. be jealous of him?

You are truly imagining this! I will state it here clearly.... the world would be a better place if the eCat worked like Rossi says it does. Why would we not want it

to happen? The problem is he is a deceiver and it does not work.

You seriously need to reconsider this thought about jealousy.

The amount of power has nothing to do with it! You are starting to confuse/intermingle the "big oil" conspiracy with the logical critics! The conspiracy that "big oil" etc. it only out for Rossi because he poses a threat due to his claimed high COP and others do not. This is conspiracy plain and simple and no truth to it.

Why would a logical critic not want Rossi to succeed?

All of the above arguments simply are trying to defend Rossi against the logical criticism by attacking the critics themselves of nefarious intentions! This seems to be because there is not logical defense against their arguments. So when one cannot defend the facts, blame the messenger?

I believe you are in error when you separate "Rossi the person" from "Rossi's technology"!

He has had a clear history of the same deceptions before that we are seeing now.

The problem is that everything we know about "Rossi's technology" comes from "Rossi the person"! You cannot separate the two.

You cannot state that Parkamov proves Rossi. Parkamov has not proved his own tests yet. You cannot say that ME356 has proved Rossi, he has not proved anything yet. I have read several posts on ECW where people are extolling the great and wonderful Quark! There is absolutely no evidence it exists at all. A blurry blue picture is worth nothing.

People may want something to be true very bad. It may be something that would help the world. That does not mean the thing is real just because we want it so badly to be.