IH Test: "Caveated" COP of 5-9, didn't produce a SINGLE WATT of excess heat....

The E-Cat never worked. Lugano never produced a watt above input; the early tests in Italy never produced any excess heat whatsoever. This is because Ni-H is all one giant scam all the way back to the incompetent work of Sergio Focardi and Piantelli Focardi who falsely reported the ability to produce a COP of 2 and all sorts of emissions with just nickel rod/wire. This is why the E-Cat IP has zero value. Pure nickel hydrogen has never produced excess heat and never will produce excess heat. Rossi has nothing because he never had anything.

With all of this being hard fact, I find it surprising that an IH test -- even tentatively with a big caveat -- measured a COP of 5-9. Even taking the lowest COP in the range (5), the over estimation of the input/output ratio is worse than Lugano. Obviously, the device couldn't have been producing any nuclear reactions: since Rossi's know-how is just the ramblings of an insane know-nothing the true COP had to be no greater than one. The law of conservation of energy must apply to everything. Even devices where the energy is supposed to be coming from E=MC2!

So go check out document 214-22 page 2 of 5.

How could such a measurement error take place! The detailed correction made after further testing should be very helpful in proving how all IR systems are useless in measuring temperature from LENR systems. If the reactor was then moved into "The Pig" device -- a setup they used that could produce steam -- the COP had to drop down to one.

If one doesn't already exist, I think a good scientific paper could be written about how NOT to depend upon IR instrumentation.

And if at the end some pesky excess heat remains, it is most likely a problem with input measurement.

You seem to be "going off a bit on the deep end" here!

Other than Mary Yugo, I know of no one on this forum that says "all Ni based LENR is fraud or unreal".

As a matter of fact, I would estimate the majority of posters here have hope that LENR works (Ni based included) and are open to legitimate researchers performing legitimate tests.

You seem to not be able to separate people's clear voice that ROSSI is a fraud from LENR in general!

I for one, have strong HOPE that LENR is a real phenomenon and BELIEVE that there is strong LEGITIMATE evidence that it exists.

But this evidence has come from Storms, McKubre, F&P and others.

At one time, had hope in Rossi. At one time I must say that I believed him, early on. But HE has HIMSELF proven to be fraudulent and not to be trusted. Rossi has no bearing on my beliefs in LENR. Simply that I cannot believe what Rossi says anymore.

Please consider this.... remove Mr. Rothwell, Mr. Weaver, Mary Yugo and everyone from the scenario. They are NOT IH no more than you are Rossi / Leonardo Corp. You have Tom Darden who has a long, successful history in business. He has a PROVEN record in wanting to do remedial cleanup of the planet. He has not had any fraud charges against him from investors and good relations with major organizations such as Woodford. He is a legitimate businessman.

Then you have Rossi.... with 50+ charges of fraud and criminal activity NOT related to the eCat! You have proven fraudulent activity with the latest Doral event. He has never had ANYONE stand by him. He has not succeeded at ANY thing other than take money for unsuccessful ventures. He has lied and misled consistently!

Now IH gave Rossi TEN MILLION DOLLARS! They WOULD have given him another EIGHTY NINE MILLION DOLLARS! Read Darden's emails! They ALL want the eCat to be real and never is there any "schemes" to

cheat Rossi. They wanted the eCat to work.

All Rossi had to do to get his EIGHTY NINE MILLION DOLLARS was to produce. What did he do?

Setup a fake customer, fake engineer, fake everything and then sued! What logic are you using to determine you beliefs in this drama???????

And now you are making the statement that if one does not support Rossi, that person is automatically against ALL LENR researchers, especially the nickel based ones! You need to re-examine your foundations here!

Bob Higgins is doing LENR research. He is doing Ni based research. HE is a LEGITIMATE researcher. Do you think HE would setup fake customers, fake engineers, fake tests, fake robotic factories, etc. etc. No!

Why? Because he is legitimate. Rossi has proven that he is not! Plain and simple.

My belief that Rossi is a total fraud has nothing to do with LENR or Ni based LENR! It is based upon Rossi's own fraudulent actions. What seems to be the main difference between the "believiers" and "non-believers" here, is that the beliver's tie LENR hopes to Rossi and the non-believers do not.

Can you not separate the two

Most people on here cannot separate Rossi's devious tendency to exaggerate or lie about surrounding issues (such as his ridiculous lies about Johnson Matthey) and the fundamental reality of his technology. I'm capable of seeing how Andrea Rossi's technology as a whole is real and has great worth to the planet, while he as a person seems to be downright sneaky.

What many people on this forum want to do is push the theme that since Andrea Rossi is so horribly awful as a person (in some ways he has indeed shown a lack of ethics and character by intentionally misleading others) there is no way that his technology can work. I don't buy that for a minute. And, in fact, if certain people and parties are intentionally dismissing the E-Cat technology as a whole to push a narrative that better supports IH, they are every bit as despicable as Rossi has demonstrated he can be -- at times.

If someone looks at the forefathers of the E-Cat (the work of Focardi and Piantelli and others), the various replications that have been made, and all of Rossi's tests and demos as a whole, the logical conclusion is that he has something that's totally real and powerful. For that, I feel we must give him credit. When it comes to other issues such as his lies and deceptions, he deserves scorn. But throwing his technology into the trash just because of his personality and behavior patterns are highly questionable is even worse -- in my opinion -- than telling a lie about a fictitious customer.

Quote from Bob

You seem to be "going off a bit on the deep end" here!

Other than Mary Yugo, I know of no one on this forum that says "all Ni based LENR is fraud or unreal".

As a matter of fact, I would estimate the majority of posters here have hope that LENR works (Ni based included) and are open to legitimate researchers performing legitimate tests.

You seem to not be able to separate people's clear voice that ROSSI is a fraud from LENR in general!

I for one, have strong HOPE that LENR is a real phenomenon and BELIEVE that there is strong LEGITIMATE evidence that it exists.

But this evidence has come from Storms, McKubre, F&P and others.

At one time, had hope in Rossi. At one time I must say that I believed him, early on. But HE has HIMSELF proven to be fraudulent and not to be trusted. Rossi has no bearing on my beliefs in LENR. Simply that I cannot believe what Rossi says anymore.

Please consider this.... remove Mr. Rothwell, Mr. Weaver, Mary Yugo and everyone from the scenario. They are NOT IH no more than you are Rossi / Leonardo Corp. You have Tom Darden who has a long, successful history in business. He has a PROVEN record in wanting to do remedial cleanup of the planet. He has not had any fraud charges against him from investors and good relations with major organizations such as Woodford. He is a legitimate businessman.

Then you have Rossi.... with 50+ charges of fraud and criminal activity NOT related to the eCat! You have proven fraudulent activity with the latest Doral event. He has never had ANYONE stand by him. He has not succeeded at ANY thing other than take money for unsuccessful ventures. He has lied and misled consistently!

Now IH gave Rossi TEN MILLION DOLLARS! They WOULD have given him another EIGHTY NINE MILLION DOLLARS! Read Darden's emails! They ALL want the eCat to be real and never is there any "schemes" to

cheat Rossi. They wanted the eCat to work.

All Rossi had to do to get his EIGHTY NINE MILLION DOLLARS was to produce. What did he do?

Setup a fake customer, fake engineer, fake everything and then sued! What logic are you using to determine you beliefs in this drama???????

And now you are making the statement that if one does not support Rossi, that person is automatically against ALL LENR researchers, especially the nickel based ones! You need to re-examine your foundations here!

Bob Higgins is doing LENR research. He is doing Ni based research. HE is a LEGITIMATE researcher. Do you think HE would setup fake customers, fake engineers, fake tests, fake robotic factories, etc. etc. No!

Why? Because he is legitimate. Rossi has proven that he is not! Plain and simple.

My belief that Rossi is a total fraud has nothing to do with LENR or Ni based LENR! It is based upon Rossi's own fraudulent actions. What seems to be the main difference between the "believiers" and "non-believers" here, is that the beliver's tie LENR hopes to Rossi and the non-believers do not.

Can you not separate the two

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Quote from Paradigmnoia

If you remove Rossi from the LENR story, then it becomes apparent that high energy LENR is going to be complicated, technologically advanced, and not very likely to be something one does in their garage.

Not really a surprise. If it was easy, the universe might have burned itself up by now.

That's not true. I think high powered LENR isn't something someone can do in their garage without a LOT of effort and work. But the amount of space they have doesn't really matter. There are high end physicists that have done great work in closets. What matters is the dedication and willingness to work extremely hard on cracking the various parameters that are required. Look at Me356. He tested day after day for months until totally mastering the prep of his fuel. Ninety nine percent of garage based replicators are incapable of doing so due to having families or not having the resources.

Something had to come of the reactor design that tentatively produced a COP of 5-9. IH had the money to perform all sorts of testing to verify if they were seeing significant excess heat or only false readings. For example, they could have had two reactors and fed the same input power into a "dummy" and see if registered the same temperature as the one including hydrogen with the IR camera. Additionally, they had the money for high temperature "B-type" thermal probes that could be used verify the readings of the IR camera. It would be very interesting to read about what additional tests and methods they used to confirm they were producing no excess heat at all from the reactor -- which has to be the case according to their current stance on excess heat production.

Quote from THEDEBATEISUSELESS

If someone looks at the forefathers of the E-Cat (the work of Focardi and Piantelli and others), the various replications that have been made, and all of Rossi's tests and demos as a whole, the logical conclusion is that he has something that's totally real and powerful. For that, I feel we must give him credit.

Your have to believe what "Rossi says" to give him credit for anything! Why do you cite Piantelli? He dismisses Rossi with disdain. Focardi never had any reactors running that high of COP. No replicators have replicated anything. Parkhamov cannot replicate his own experiments and ME356 has shown nothing but talk. Real researchers such as Bob Higgins and MFMP have not replicated anything of Rossi's

You keep saying that Rossi technology MUST be real. That is wishful thinking. And because you want his technology to be real so bad, you have become blind to his deceit and fraud.

IF HE HAD A REAL WORKING TECHNOLOGY, IH WOULD HAVE BEEN JOYFUL! THEY WOULD HAVE PAID HIM EIGHT NINE MILLION DOLLARS! Please ponder that!