me356: Photos of AURA control unit

    The important thing is that the presence of thermal inertia in the calorimeter means that the power output you're seeing at the present moment is the result of something that happened X minutes ago, where "X" is the time constant of the calorimeter. That means you don't really have an instantaneous power-out, which prevents any instantaneous power-out/power-in quasi-COP calculation from being possible. Instead what you end up having is a calculation that combines something a little bit like an instantaneous power-out from X minutes ago with the instantaneous power-in from right now, which is confusing, because the two values are not necessarily closely related.

    Noticed that there is a way to re-scale Plotly cop curves to something more meaningful. Move mouse over Cop axis numbers and in top and bottom you can stretch axis (so it shows smaller range) and you can also drag scale up and down.



    They changed the input stimulus pattern ... and the outlet temperature has gone way higher than usual .... was 19 max, now 25C

    Not only that, but the outlet temp rise preceeded the input power rise. See plot around 17:00 ... but my plot display is still a bit flakey,


    More tips for plot.ly : show it in "full screen" mode ... that gives an "embedded" display, which refreshes correctly.
    If you only see the input power plot, click on it ... the others display. Click again on input power to re-enable it.

    The instant COP and the rolling average of the instant COP (both calculated by me and from MFMP) seem to be slightly above 1.0x, but the cumulative energy COP is still less than 1. My Total Excess Energy calculation seems to match that provided by MFMP, so I believe it's correct.



    • Official Post
    Quote from Eric Walker

    The important thing is that the presence of thermal inertia in the calorimeter means that the power output you're seeing at the present moment is the result of something that happened X minutes ago, where "X" is the time constant of the calorimeter. That means you don't really have an instantaneous power-out, which prevents any instantaneous power-out/power-in quasi-COP calculation from being possible. Instead what you end up having is a calculation that combines something a little bit like an instantaneous power-out from X minutes ago with the instantaneous power-in from right now, which is confusing, because the two values are not necessarily closely related.


    Wot Eric said.

    Quote from Can

    rolling average of the instant COP

    I think the calculation one would want is something like ((p-outt=1 + p-outt=0) / 2) / (p-int=1 + p-int=0) / 2) (with the constants canceling), where t1 is now, and (t1 - t0) is larger than the calorimeter constant. A further calculation over the "instantaneous" COP doesn't sound like a good idea.


    ETA: Or much better, an average of all of the individual power in/out readings from t=0 to t=1 instead of point measurements at the endpoints of the timerange.

    Quote from Can

    The instant COP and the rolling average of the instant COP (both calculated by me and from MFMP) seem to be slightly above 1.0x, but the cumulative energy COP is still less than 1. My Total Excess Energy calculation seems to match that provided by MFMP, so I believe it's correct.

    LOL, me356 just has to stop electrical Power In for a couple of seconds (P-In = 0), then this results to an infinite COP (P-out / 0), and also the rolling average remains infinite for the next minutes... and those weirdos who just focus on instant and rolling average COP values get crazy ...

    Just don't expect to much from a ROSSI-like test setup-up with hidden details.


    The Indians (ECCO) presented much more knowledge and details of their reactor. Their process is following the current knowledge of NiLi-H LENR fusion and is a far bigger promise, than what we can expect from this first test. I expected/hoped mfp would first go to India...


    Currently the (me356) story looks like a free engineering support engagment with no payback...

    Wytte - whats with the quick rush to conclusions along with such a judgmental statement? Is MFMP using any of your time or nickels, pence or euros?

    While everyone obviously has many more questions than answers that are available right now - I think this effort is pretty cool and that we should all be grateful

    for the chance to watch this unfold. It is going to go where it is going to go.

    Quote from Can

    The instant COP and the rolling average of the instant COP (both calculated by me and from MFMP) seem to be slightly above 1.0x, but the cumulative energy COP is still less than 1. My Total Excess Energy calculation seems to match that provided by MFMP, so I believe it's correct.


    The instantaneous/rolling average COP seems meaningless, because the Total Excess Energy is decreasing.

    To avoid the start-up foo, would it be possible to reset TEE to zero at (say) 15:00 and display Total Cop as Total Output/Total Input from 15:00 on?

    @Henry, You are slightly confused on your COP calculations. You've accidentally calculated COP as Current Power Output / Total Energy Input. The calculation should be COP = Power Output / Power Input = 1024.11 W / 1011.2 W = 1.012

    Quote from Alan Fletcher

    To avoid the start-up foo, would it be possible to reset TEE to zero at (say) 15:00 and display Total Cop as Total Output/Total Input from 15:00 on?


    Yes, it's possible on my side (see attached).

    EDIT: but I see they've done some tests with the PCE-830 power analyzer, so that messed up measurements a bit in the past few minutes.

    EDIT2: slightly updated graph.

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