Jed is right and on point. You managed expectations poorly, allowed good people with an open mind to follow your work for over a year and raise crowdfunded money to see the device. Don't turn a deaf ear to honest criticism. In the real world where people put down money and time, what Jed says is not harmful just the opposite it shows a road to success. Consider it a lesson on making strong claims in the future. This is the path to respect. Look at others in the field that have earned this respect of the community. Don't kid yourself. Your not Rossi, so avoid his behavior or anything close to it. Next time you have something to show be sure of it.
me356: Photos of AURA control unit
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JedRothwell: Maybe I should write it again - please read all my posts in this thread. Then you will get answers to your questions. If you don't believe, why you are asking then?
I have informed Bob relatively precisely about what is wrong with the reactor and what must be done and that it was far from ready from my side.
But over it, we have agread to do the test. What is wrong about it?
If Bob will agree, he can give you all our communication from the last year (of course with censoring some confidential info that he know about). I have no problem with that.
Unfortunately I can't loose more time. Sorry.
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I have moved the last 3 posts from this thread to the 'Playground' thread. I think by now Me356 understands that members feel very disappointed that MFMP's recent visit was not a success, and think further criticism would not be helpful. So further posts along these lines may also be moved.
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QuoteI don't understand, why some nickel or any other metal matters in sealed reactor. On the contrary, IMO it would be more tactical and less risky
to show nickel based reactor to MFMP people, rather than final version of your technology.I think, this posts belongs right here and it has even not meaning anywhere else. Of course, the further discussion about Jesus and social reforms does not belong here.
QuoteYou managed expectations poorly, allowed good people with an open mind to follow your work for over a year and raise crowdfunded money to see the deviceI think, that Me356 didn't promise anything - the usual enthusiastic (if not megalomanic) hype of Bob Greener was in work here. We already experienced it with propagation of ECCO technology. The MFMP people would do better, if they would do original LENR research and replications instead of traveling across world, sniffing for know-how and cryptic demonstrations here and there at all possible places of the web. I even think, that for Me356 isn't good to be in contact with these people.
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I have no relation to I.H., but if I did it would be none of your business
LOL, how did you come into it? Of course it quite fundamentally affects the insider information, which can be released before you at public.
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....No one plays any role. Most researchers are dead, and the field is moribund. You can thank Rossi for that, more than anyone else.
I din't know he was a serial killer, too. Amazing.
Actually, I think that the field is moving away from the 'old guard' of distinguished workers into the hands of another group of people, who don't at the moment interact so much via ICCF conferences and so on. The (slightly) younger generation are often ploughing their own furrow - which is a big shame, since I am a big fan of sharing knowledge. But these seem to be more money-oriented times, and money breeds secrecy.
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I din't know he was a serial killer, too. Amazing.
Actually, I think that the field is moving away from the 'old guard' of distinguished workers into the hands of another group of people, who don't at the moment interact so much via ICCF conferences and so on. The (slightly) younger generation are often ploughing their own furrow - which is a big shame, since I am a big fan of sharing knowledge. But these seem to be more money-oriented times, and money breeds secrecy.
Secrecy, with no motivation to write up results properly => even less likelihood of contribution than is true for traditional LENR researchers.
Of course should LENR be an inventor's dream, with working reactors just a better waveform or fuel prep method away, crowd sourced secret experiments might well be effective.
My confident prediction is that that will not work.
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I have no relation to I.H., but if I did it would be none of your business. I play practically no role in LENR, except as librarian. No one plays any role. Most researchers are dead, and the field is moribund. You can thank Rossi for that, more than anyone else.
Note that whenever Jed denies a relationship with IH, it is in the present tense. When I press him on this, he says it is none of our damn business. I suppose he did have some kind of relationship with IH in the past, maybe as a paid advisor. Why he is so evasive about this with the community is beyond me. Information like this wants to be set free.
Jed demands absolute openness from Me356 but refuses to be so himself.
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Note that whenever Jed denies a relationship with IH, it is in the present tense. When I press him on this, he says it is none of our damn business. I suppose he did have some kind of relationship with IH in the past, maybe as a paid advisor. Why he is so evasive about this with the community is beyond me. Information like this wants to be set free.
Jed demands absolute openness from Me356 but refuses to be so himself.
That seems wrong to me. A typical IHFB Rossiesque comment.
Jed is saying that if me356 encourages MFMP to visit him under the impression he has a reliable COP=10 reactor to test, he should have the huevos to tell them in advance if that is not in fact true.
Jed also says that if me356 says, as publicly we gained the impression from MFMP he did, that he has a COP=10 reactor being tested, and only after the null result test claims in fact he knew it would not work, that no-one is going to believe anything else he says. I agree. Maybe MFMP is totally responsible for this remarkable lack of communication. I doubt it.
And Jed's past relationships are not something he talks about or asks to be tested. Nor does anyone else here (except me, I think, in that I've said IH has never paid me, directly or indirectly, anything). I wonder IHFB does not cross-examine E48 on ECW about his past and current business relationships with Rossi.
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... if me356 says...
That shouldn't be how this works. If me356 really convinced himself, he must have lots of data and documentation about methods and protocols. He's been at this for quite some time, right? Normally you would review all of that and only fly a bunch of people and equipment around the world if you have done that, found nothing wrong with it and have a clear idea of how exactly you'll verify the documented results. If me356 has such data and documentation but chose not to share it for some reasons, then why would he allow anybody to test the device? If he has such data and MFMP reviewed and analysed it, then where is it? And if he doesn't have such data, why would he believe the device works? The whole affair makes no sense either way.
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That shouldn't be how this works. If me356 really convinced himself, he must have lots of data and documentation about methods and protocols. He's been at this for quite some time, right? Normally you would review all of that and only fly a bunch of people and equipment around the world if you have done that, found nothing wrong with it and have a clear idea of how exactly you'll verify the documented results. If me356 has such data and documentation but chose not to share it for some reasons, then why would he allow anybody to test the device? If he has such data and MFMP reviewed and analysed it, then where is it? And if he doesn't have such data, why would he believe the device works? The whole affair makes no sense either way.
I've noticed that many people believe many things on grounds much less than what you imply. Specifically, when me356 was posting here he gave his reasons for being sure he had excess heat, which seemed to me not particularly strong. He disagreed. And MFMP have a pretty low bar for what they are prepared to check.
Having incorrect ideas of one's own ability (or that of ones inventions) is pretty common. Much less common is the fact that in this situation me356 actually gets somone else to check.
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My confident prediction is that that will not work.
Well, you are invested in the academic status quo so you would say that. Also known as 'not invented here' syndrome. Eventually, as we simple engineers say say 'moleste antea ferebat sententiam orthodoxam vilescit'.
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Jed is saying that if me356 encourages MFMP to visit him under the impression he has a reliable COP=10 reactor to test, he should have the huevos to tell them in advance if that is not in fact true.
Yes. Or, more charitably, perhaps it was true but the situation changed.
In that case he should have told them: "It stopped working." Or: "I have a COP=10 reactor but I cannot show it to you now. I have another one that is not as reliable. Would you like to see it now, or should we postpone the trip?"
He should have said that weeks ago.
He can still make amends by using the equipment they left behind to test the COP-10 reactor.
Much less common is the fact that in this situation me356 actually gets somone else to check.
Yes. This is extraordinary. His willingness to let people check makes me think he must sincerely believe his results are real. His refusal to show the COP-10 machine was rude. But if he tests it now with the MFMP equipment, all will be forgiven.
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That shouldn't be how this works. If me356 really convinced himself, he must have lots of data and documentation about methods and protocols. He's been at this for quite some time, right? Normally you would review all of that and only fly a bunch of people and equipment around the world if you have done that, found nothing wrong with it and have a clear idea of how exactly you'll verify the documented results. If me356 has such data and documentation but chose not to share it for some reasons, then why would he allow anybody to test the device? If he has such data and MFMP reviewed and analysed it, then where is it? And if he doesn't have such data, why would he believe the device works? The whole affair makes no sense either way.
Yes. My thoughts exactly. It is baffling. If the MFMP did not see the kind of data and documentation you describe, I am a little disappointed in them.
I was going to condense your comments, but every sentence is important and worth repeating.
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Note that whenever Jed denies a relationship with IH, it is in the present tense. When I press him on this, he says it is none of our damn business.
That's rich! Go to LENR-CANR.org and you will find my name, telephone number, mailing address and e-mail address at the bottom of every page. So who the hell are you "IH Fanboy"? You and many others are hiding behind a comic-book names while insisting that I should be more open. If it were not so stupid it would be ironic.
Jed demands absolute openness from Me356 but refuses to be so himself.
I have not demanded "absolute openness." I suggested that me356 do what he said he would do -- test a working reactor in a black-box configuration. "Black box" is the opposite of "absolute openness."
The people from the MFMP spent weeks and thousands of dollars preparing, then they traveled halfway around the world because me356 said he would do this. He reneged at the last minute. That is rude, and self-defeating. He should make amends and do the test now. If he will not, something is wrong. He is either dishonest or crazy.
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Yes. This is extraordinary. His willingness to let people check makes me think he must sincerely believe his results are real.
Well, one could come up with more (alternatives) theories why me356 let MFMP fly in for a demo/test.
But I don't want to elaborate more on this - because some mods don't like speculations ( or should I call it "thinking out of the box" ) which they deem as unhelpful and unoriginal.
Just want to mention that it seems not so uncommon that - when facing stringent testing methodes - a LENR reactor happens to have a sudden failure/leakage.
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If you read this and do not mind can respond to your own idea above on his reasons in the playground. I would be interested. <end>
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Also, I agreed with Jed above as I think he (Jed) is being helpful to me356 as the poster Jami above is quoted saying "he must have lots of data and documentation about methods and protocols." I would point out to me356 that there is nothing wrong asking him about them. And some criticism should be expected and almost welcomed at this point. If he is not following documented protocols then he is winging it. It may help him to point this out. Maybe as Jed says may he believe in what he has. I have no reason to doubt that at all. Back to the point, what are the next steps? They should be laid out and some runs should be posted.
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Unfortunately, I see many weak arguments from smart people. To speculate about bad intentions and be critical of the user who contributed a lot of facts feels useless.
Me356 is the member who shared huge amounts of interesting infromation for all members who can read, he gives more than he takes in contrast to many others.... I would not let MFMP measure my equipment unless I'm convinced of excess heat. I know that me356 is convinced.
So please stop speculating about bad intentions. Within a few weeks, we know if me356 has the product that can changes history.
me356 What you are trying to do is magnificent.
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David
Nice to say, me356 does not need criticism ,but help in a general sense.
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I would not let MFMP measure my equipment unless I'm convinced of excess heat. I know that me356 is convinced.
But he was wrong! Whether me356 is convinced or not, the MFMP found the machine does not work. That's objective reality. me356's attitude or convictions do not affect that.
So please stop speculating about bad intentions. Within a few weeks, we know if me356 has the product that can changes history.
He has not said he will test the working reactor. If he does not, either he has bad intentions or he is crazy. So far all he has done is cause the MFMP people to waste their time and money. He should have told them "don't come; I am not ready."
me356What you are trying to do is magnificent.
So far it has not been magnificent. He deliberately withheld information and caused people to waste time and money. He refuses to commit to testing another reactor. That is not magnificent. It is a farce. And an insult. He should apologize and do it right.
