me356: Photos of AURA control unit

Quote from David Nygren

What you are trying to do is magnificent.

Let me reiterate that you have a very low bar to "magnificent." me356 dragged a group of people halfway around the world on false pretenses. He reneged on his agreement at the last minute. He let them do four days of hard work testing a machine that does not work, while -- he claims -- there is another machine in the next room that does work. It would take a half hour to hide the guts of the other machine to do a black box test.

If this is "magnificent," I would hate to see behavior you call rude, pointless, or reprehensible.

This field suffers from lax standards. In any other scientific or engineering discipline, me356 would be shut out until he does a proper test with the equipment now on loan to him.

Jed, while I respect the valuable effort you have put on this field, you give an impression that don't accept any possibilities that are out of IH:s reach.

me356 was maybe mistaken, or over optimistic about his own calorimetry, or too self confident about how well he master the technology, or just unlucky with the leak. Knowingly inviting MFP to test reactor that is electric heater simply does not make sense. MFP simply cannot make COP 10 error by accident and he must have known that before inviting them.

Why don't we lean back and wait for Suhas reactor get tested, me356 do his own adjustments in new design and test by himself first before calling MFP representative back to confirm.

Meanwhile we can relax and follow Rossi vs IH to unfold and that story in to completion.

If none of these 3 give any positive clarity in LENR-filed during this summer, then I will start to agree that LENR and its reputation is again in big trouble.

Quote from Argon

Jed, while I respect the valuable effort you have put on this field, you give an impression that don't accept any possibilities that are out of IH:s reach.

That's absurd. 99% of cold fusion results were obtained before I.H. entered the field. They had nothing to do with it. They did not even know the field existed when I had already uploaded more than a thousand papers.

Your statement has no connection to reality.

Quote from Argon

me356 was maybe mistaken, or over optimistic about his own calorimetry, or too self confident about how well he master the technology, or just unlucky with the leak.

No, that is not what happened. me356 reneged. He said, right here, that just before they came he decided not to show them a reliable reactor, but rather one that he had little or no experience with. He did not tell them beforehand, as far as I know. For weeks, he and they were saying they would test a reliable reactor that produces 10 times input. It was so reliable, it was close to a commercial prototype. Suddenly he changed his mind. This was not "luck" -- it was his decision. His justification for it was that he wants to hide the 10-times-input reactor. That's a stupid excuse that does not hold water. He could easily hide it and do a black box test. Does he think the people from MFMP have x-ray vision?

Either he changed his mind, or he has been lying and there is no reliable machine that produces 10 times input. I cannot judge what the situation is, but either way he should apologize. If he has a working reactor he should test it as soon as possible.

Jed, that is not absurd. I was not referring history, but your activity in this very thread. I think you have beaten me356 enough here. You can be right or wrong. Only future will tell.
I think all readers and me356 knows by now that you are frustrated on me356:s behavior when he allowed MFMP make travel arrangement knowing(?) what real situation was. Continuing 'campaign' does not going to fix past, and I don't see that would do anything positive to future either.

MFMP last video in their FB page was not as pessimistic as your view, when they drove back on Monday night. Let's not try to judge me356 before all facts are on table. Meanwhile lets allow some trust on him while he tries fix and test the redesigned new reactor.

JedRothwell: I dont know how to say it more clearly, but it is evident that you do not understand what I have written earlier.

Each your post is constructed on your assumption which are sometime exactly opposite of the reality.

Many statements that are allegedly my are completely nonsense and were never claimed by me.

So maybe it must be stated even more clearly in points (you can ask for any point to Bob Greenyer for confirmation):

1. Tested device was far from ready and MFMP was informed about it weeks ago.
   
2. Tested device was the only device that was possible to test as this was the only one "prepared" for public testing. For Jed: No, preparation of other reactor will take much longer than one we were able to test.
   
3. I was not the person who made a schedule of the test.
   
4. I have never said that it is ready for testing.
   
5. I have clearly stated (for a few times) prior to 14th may that once I will be prepared for testing, I will inform about it. This time not occured yet.
   
6. The first time I was informed about the test was 14th may 2017 (verified with my mail box right now) from a forum member - at this day I have sent a message to Bob G. that it is not good to schedule without me. Also I have stated for a few times in the mail that day, that it is really not ready. At this time the tickets were already billed.
   
7. I have stated that I can pay for everything, no donations are needed for the test.
   
8. Prior the test I wanted to meet with Bob (this plan was known for longer time) so he can check everything personally first. But only once I will be ready. This was not realized as I was not ready.
   
9. I was appealing to carefull cooperation before any test will begin to prevent hurry plans and condition when anything will be missing, not working, etc.
   
10. I have never claimed any specific COP, especially not for the actual device.
    
11. I was informing Bob about particular issues of the reactor and what is the progress.
    
12. Before the test I have stated that the result can be whatever as there was no time to test the device.
    
13. I have agreed to perform the test to not waste money and effort of MFMP as they were very close whatever I will say.
    
14. I am glad for the test and especially for great proffesionality of all MFMP members. We have both learned usefull info.

Each point is nothing else but true, so I am describing the facts. Again, you can verify it.

Please tell me which point is not clear?

Quote from me356

Tested device was far from ready and MFMP was informed about it weeks ago.

That is not what they told me.

Quote from me356

I was not the person who made a schedule of the test.

You damn well should have been the person to schedule the test! It is your machine, at your house. It was your responsibility to be prepared and to arrange the test and not have people waste weeks of effort and thousands of dollars.

Quote from me356

I have never said that it is ready for testing.

You should have said "IT IS NOT READY. DO NOT COME."

If I had people coming to visit me for some purpose, and I knew I was not ready, I would tell them not to come. This is common sense. It is extremely rude for you to say nothing and waste people's time and money. You should apologize.

Stop making excuses. Stop making lists of reasons why none of this is your fault. It is entirely your fault. You should make amends by testing the machine with the equipment they left there.

Quote from Argon

Jed, that is not absurd. I was not referring history, but your activity in this very thread. I think you have beaten me356 enough here. You can be right or wrong. Only future will tell.

We are talking about the past, not the future. The MFMP tests failed to show any heat. It isn't me who is either right or wrong -- it is the MFMP people. Are you saying they made a mistake and there really was heat? I don't think so.

The future will tell us whether me356 is sincere or a liar. If he tests the equipment, he is sincere. If he refuses to test it, he is a liar and scammer, no different from Rossi and dozens of other "over unity energy" perpetual motion machine scammers.

Did you asked for copy of my emails?

Well, there is a big difference between you and me, obviously

It is very interesting how you can know more about the test than me.

Can you tell me why anybody should apologize for true?

Quote from me356

Did you asked for copy of my emails?

Well, there is a big difference between you and me, obviously

It is very interesting how you can know more about the test than me.

I communicated with the MFMP people, and read the messages here.

Perhaps this is a gigantic misunderstanding. Perhaps you failed to clearly tell them that you were not ready and the machine was not working. Or perhaps you did tell them, and they misunderstood. You should have told them again, more clearly.

If they went there knowing the machine would probably not work, I guess that is their fault, not yours. I did not hear anything like that from them. I cannot imagine why anyone would get on an airplane to go to test a machine when the inventor has said, "it probably does not work." That is an idiotic thing to do. Even when everything seems okay, a test of this nature usually fails for unforeseen reasons. Why would you do the test knowing from the start it is likely to fail?

As Jami said:

Quote from Jami

Normally you would review all of that and only fly a bunch of people and equipment around the world if you have done that, found nothing wrong with it and have a clear idea of how exactly you'll verify the documented results. If me356 has such data and documentation but chose not to share it for some reasons, then why would he allow anybody to test the device? If he has such data and MFMP reviewed and analysed it, then where is it?

That is the professional approach. That is how this must be done if there is to be any hope of success. Even when you do all of those steps, the test often fails. If you and/or MFMP failed to take these steps, shame on both of you.

Whatever the cause, people wasted time and money at your house, testing your machine. This is your responsibility. You should stop making excuses and fix the problem. Do the tests again with the reactor that you claimed produces 10 times input. Or do you now deny saying such a reactor exists?

JedRothwell: Get the copies of my emails so you can see if it was or wasn't clear enough. Please do not speculate. Feel free to paste the email content here.

Where did you get information I was claiming COP of 10?

Why would you do the test knowing from the start it is likely to fail? It was not likely at all. I tried to do my best to make it working but very important thing was not possible to do in time. I have thought it will be possible to finish it better, but there were other issues that nobody can't really expect.

If all members were already very close, why should I not allow them to test the reactor as there was chance it will work (and they want to do the test in any way)?

When you are in a hole, stop digging. Sure it's disappointing that MFMP did not test a testable device but at this point everyone is a little bit wiser. Would have, could have, should have doesn't matter. We are where we are and the main parties appear to be committed to the original plan. (I donated to the first effort and will be glad to do so again should the opportunity arise but I don't think money is the issue.) Onward!

Whatever happened MFMP performed very good test. The point of the test was to check if there is an excess heat or other interesting artefacts. And we were prepared for both cases. Yet no report from the test was published as far as I know. If you are more clever, you should help with the next test.

Quote from me356

Yet no report from the test was published as far as I know.

The test and test data was reported here in real time. Did you not know that?

Jed, Sorry you seem to keep twisting things over and over again. We know that me356 test was failure cop<=1 there is no point on digging in decimals. Small positive is not even news anymore. So that test was failure period.

There is nothing new anymore you can bring to this thread before MFMP opens their mouth or me356 makes new test. By continuing this campaign you only make people more seriously question your real intentions - and reputation. Why not to continue on some other topic, maybe we 'should look there not here' as Bob said. Maybe Rossi vs IH case...

PS: Tip for me356, please don't take Jed too seriously, he is trying to challenge you to dig deeper in first test case, whereas you should concentrate on fixing the reactor and meanwhile limit commenting here too much before you have something working available. We don't want to see another 'Rossi says' saga - nobody wants to live that again. There is nothing to win by promising, only by independent reliable testing.

Alan Smith

Time to put parts of this thread over to the playground? Real science is not about personal attacks. Enough is enough.

Let Me356 work and the others who only write (yes it includes me) just have to wait for the doers.

Quote from Argon

Jed, Sorry you seem to keep twisting things over and over again. We know that me356 test was failure cop<=1 there is no point on digging in decimals. Small positive is not even news anymore. So that test was failure period.

Yes. That is why I disagree with people here who call it magnificent. That's my point. It was evidently unplanned, unorganized and misrepresented by me356. Or it was misrepresented by the MFMP to me.

Quote from Argon

There is nothing new anymore you can bring to this thread before MFMP opens their mouth or me356 makes new test.

me356 has not said he will do a new test. He should.

Quote from Argon

By continuing this campaign you only make people more seriously question your real intentions - and reputation.

I do not give a damn who questions my intentions or reputation. If I had any concerns about that, I would have nothing to do with cold fusion. It is the most disreputable field of science in modern history. It is disreputable partly because of academic opposition, but partly become many people associated with the field are charlatans, crooks and lunatics such as Rossi. What me356 wrote here today -- the excuses, evasions, and out-and-out lies such as "I never said the COP was 10" or "the test was not published" -- makes me suspect he is a charlatan. The test was published right here! Who is he trying to kid? If he does not do any more tests in the next three months, we can write him off.

Anyway, people who hide behind comic-book names such as "Argon" or "Ele" or "IH Fanboy" have no business questioning my reputation. You don't even have the guts to say who you are. What have you published? What standing do you have in this field? Why do you think I give a fart about the opinion of an anonymous bozo on the Internet?

Quote

What me356 wrote here today -- the excuses, evasions, and out-and-out lies such as "I never said the COP was 10" or "the test was not published" -- makes me suspect he is a charlatan.

Ironically just the most proclamative supporters of robust scientific method and evidence are suddenly full of void claims and suspicions without any proof, once first experiment (apparently prematurely announced and published by Greenyer without Me356 permission given) failed. Are you even aware with your pile of library articles, that actually NO LENR experiment works with 100% reliability? Even these most successful ones have some 75% of success (palladium electrolysis notoriously tested).

You're completely separated from experimental reality of LENR - this is NOT deterministic science yet. Therefore, one experiment means absolutely nothing and especially not, if it's first one with new reactor in new untested environment. It's a result of Bob Greenyer lack of discipline and impatience and I'd draw consequences from it being Me356. And I agree with Argon, that your systematic attacks of Rossi are annoying and suspicious and they cannot be explained just by naivety, which you're demonstrating with Me356 here.

Quote from Zephir_AWT

once first experiment (apparently prematurely published by Greenyer without Me356 agreement) failed.

Who told you that that me356 did not agree to publication? Where did you get this information?

Are you suggesting that me356 was unaware of the fact that the MFMP was broadcasting the results from his house the whole time? If so, he is remarkably unobservant. What did he think the cameras and computers were for?

Do you seriously think he didn't know, or are you just making excuses for him and blaming Greenyer?

Quote from Zephir_AWT

Are you even aware with your pile of library articles, that actually no LENR experiment works with 100% reliability?

When an experiment does not work with 100% reliability, and you go to verify it, you either plan to do multiple tests in parallel, or to stay long enough to do a series of tests such that you will probably see a positive result. If something works once in 5 days, you do not plan to stay for only 4 days.

me356 said that he had a machine that works so well, he was on the verge of commercial development. I am sure the MFMP told him they were coming for only 4 days. If me356 knew that 4 days is not long enough, and the likelihood of success in only 4 days is low, he should have said something. Such as: "plan to stay longer" or "don't come yet; I am not ready." As far as I know, he said nothing like that. He misrepresented his success rate.

If he knew the success rate was low, he should have queued up a more successful version of his machine, and prepared it ahead of time for a black box test. As I said, when people come from halfway around the world to see your work, you have a responsibility to do the best you can. If you fail despite your best efforts, no one will blame you. That happens all the time.

I know perfectly how this situation did happen, as I followed Bob Greenyer phantasmagorias once he became aware about Suhas research before two months. He got into ecstasy under impression of access to free energy and he babbled about New World order whole week. His enthusiasm is pathological and he has no discipline and patience. He is like small kid, who is promised to get some toy - so he cannot wait for Christmas anymore.

He must get it right now!

Quote

me356 said that he had a machine that works so well, he was on the verge of commercial development

It has no meaning to speculate about it, until we don't know details. I did laboratory work for whole my life, so I can imagine thousands of sources of possible problems. If it's vacuum apparatus, then it's dismantling may lose the vacuum for ever, until you find the source of leak. If it uses hydrogen generator, it's purity may be compromised for ever, if you use wet or contaminated hose from some other lab. And so on - even very reliably working device may not survive the dismantling moving and rebuild. You should have four of more parallel reactors for being sure by its reliability. And finally we don't know what actually did happen with device under MSMF supervision. Maybe someone did try to open sealed reactor and broke it.