Clearance Items

    Quote from maryyugo

    When you read Rends, ele, Zeus and several others. you can see the type of thinking that leads one to believe con men like Rossi, Sean McCarthy (Steorn), Defkalion's John Hadjichristos, etc, etc. Humans, sadly, are very prone to this. It's a long discussion but the evolutionary origin of faith is probably rooted in the need to react quickly to announced threats, for example, predators. In prehistory, if someone yells "Lion" and you ask "Oh yeah? How do you know? What color was it? How do you know it's not tame? etc." then you get eaten. If you take it on faith, you run and maybe survive. Taking things on faith once had a strong survival benefit. Nowadays, that same instinct feeds scammers. IMHO of course.


    If there is a psychopath in the room it's definitely you maryyugo, you are allowed to throw out threats and attacks unlike anyone on this board,

    when will the moderators put a stop to it?


    you are a Genuine predator of the worst kind MaryYugo, what is in that sick mind of yours that you persist. There is no question in real life

    that strange things happened to you to be so disturbed, Jesus seek help already? Rossi won get over it.


    Moved from the Rossi v. Darden thread. Eric

    Quote from maryyugo

    But I disapprove of people being banned for expressing any opinion.


    Sifferkoll was banned for persisting in a pattern of using personal attacks to bring down the level of discussion, thereby turning it from the topic at hand (Rossi v. Darden) into a food fight focused exclusively on the characters of the people here at LENR Forum who are directly participating in the thread. Logical arguments are good, and food fights are bad. This was not about the particular views about Rossi v. Darden that Sifferkoll may espouse, as they are probably not too different from those of Alan Fletcher or IFHB, who have never run into difficulties here. The reason Alan Fletcher and IFHB haven't run into difficulties is that they do not seek to moralize the conversation and turn it into an attack on the people having it. It's pretty simple in the end.


    Level-headed logical argumentation is inevitably undermined and defeated by persistent ad hominem attacks, which are something to be prevented.

    Eric, you should leave moderation for more competent people, this is for sure. You're doing mess in this very forum.

    The increasing level of ad hominem attacks is just your job (poor moderation of pathoskeptic trolls and crazies like Yugo being more specific).

    Mary does not have much of a filter, and she is known to insult forum members. But her arguments almost inevitably deal with substantive points. The insults are regrettable and in poor taste, but there is no charge to them. She has insulted me, and I didn't feel anything. It's because she simply doesn't have a filter, sort of like someone with Tourette syndrome. Her aim has never been in my experience to initiate or sustain a food fight about the characters of people at LENR Forum or Vortex. Even where she and Jed have had extended disputes, it has been about substantive issues. It is not too difficult in this context to overlook her shortcomings.

    The http://e-catworld.com forum may serve for reference: there are not clearance threads of playground threads, no aggressive moderation (for example my posts were never deleted or relocated from there) - yet the people there are way less hostile each other - and the plurality of opinions exist there too.


    A hint: I newer saw people like Mary Yugo there...

    I also think the discussions there are tilted towards Rossi, whereas there is a free exchange of opinions about Rossi v. Darden here (in contrast to a free exchange of opinions about the character flaws of individual LENR Forum members, which there is not). For ECW is a forum that proceeds on the assumption that Rossi has something. With us being at the center of the Rossi v. Darden divide, which is a contentious one, things are naturally a little bit more argumentative. There would be plenty of drama with or without Mary, and Mary does not significantly add to that drama, except insofar as people react to her strong views and lack of a filter and launch into ad homs.

    Quote from Eric Walker

    I also think the discussions there are tilted towards Rossi, whereas there is a free exchange of opinions about Rossi v. Darden here (in contrast to a free exchange of opinions about the character flaws of individual LENR Forum members, which there is not). For ECW is a forum that proceeds on the assumption that Rossi has something. With us being at the center of the Rossi v. Darden divide, which is a contentious one, things are naturally a little bit more argumentative. There would be plenty of drama with or without Mary, and Mary does not significantly add to that drama, except insofar as people react to her strong views and lack of a filter and launch into ad homs.


    I think you have a problem to understand that what you call "character flaws" might actually be a discussion about ethics an morality. And this is perhaps an even more relevant discussion than the pseudo-technical ones. I dont see why it should be forbidden to discuss the morality of the forum members when those kind of arguments are used in every other post about Rossi? Doesn' make sense.

    Quote from slashdevslashnull

    I think you have a problem to understand that what you call "character flaws" might actually be a discussion about ethics an morality. And this is perhaps an even more relevant discussion than the pseudo-technical ones. I dont see why it should be forbidden to discuss the morality of the forum members when those kind of arguments are used in every other post about Rossi? Doesn' make sense.



    Hi new person and welcome. Have you been here by chance before? Or just joining in? A great day to join eh?

    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    The http://e-catworld.com forum may serve for reference: there are not clearance threads of playground threads, no aggressive moderation (for example my posts were never deleted or relocated from there) - yet the people there are way less hostile each other - and the plurality of opinions exist there too.


    A hint: I newer saw people like Mary Yugo there...


    Ecat world bans TC and many many others, including many Rossi supporters who started to express doubts after years of non-delivery and bad excuses. TC was banned for doing no more than arguing scientific points and linking them to their necessary conclusion. It is a scientifically corrupt forum because the rules explicitly remove one side of debates and any reference to it. You end up with a set of people with a specific world view that reinforce eachother. Were I to spend my time there (and I've looked at it) I too would begin to grow Rossi-tinted shades.


    While I don't like IHFB and the way he twists everything, I view it is necessary to have capable people on every side of an argument. It prevents things from drifting into a bubble of unreality.


    You are right: ecat-world is a pleasant place of like-minded people. That, for me, is the death of true inquiry.

    Quote

    You are right: ecat-world is a pleasant place of like-minded people. That, for me, is the death of true inquiry.


    The LENR-forum started to be an unpleasant place for LENR-minded people. I don't see any way, how it could support the inquisitiveness about LENR. The never-ending frog&mice battles of pathoskeptics dilute the main value of this forum, which is the concentration of links and insights from outside. This is also the main agenda of pathoskeptics here: if they cannot defeat the information about LENR in logical way, they can still dilute it and to burrow under layer of subjectivists void posts. A primary tool of Kremlin propaganda, BTW. The liberal people at the West who are accustomed to plurality of opinions cannot realize easily the hidden danger of excessive quantity in this matter.


    Like everything in nature there is a gold mean way. That is to say, the plurality of opinions works, but just bellow certain level - above it just increases the noise-signal ratio. It's also important to realize, that the opponents of LENR are unqualified in the matter by their very nature: they used to dismiss information about LENR, not to collect them. Their added value is therefore low by their very nature. They don't bring links into the forum and their opinions tend to be always belief driven and subjective.


    There are also opposite extremes, like AxilAxil who hypes every information and who links everything with everything. He's dual version of Mary Yugo, but the flooding of forums with clueless information is also strategy of Kremlin propagandists. Again, the signal-noise ratio is what matters in coherent discussion here.

    A couple of questions, Zephir: what constitutes an "opponent of LENR"? Do you think that even the person whom you think is the devil incarnate - Maryyugo - is "opposed to LENR" as distinct from not thinking it is a real phenomenon? Also, what are your qualifications for being LENR-minded? If its "opponents" are not qualified to criticize it, what gives you the intellectual authority to declare it an unassailable fact?


    I don't expect thoughtful answers. Your MO is personal attacks on anyone who is not a member of your church.

    Quote from Zephir_AWT

    The LENR-forum started to be an unpleasant place for LENR-minded people. I don't see any way, how it could support the inquisitiveness about LENR.


    This I think gets to the heart of the difference between what you consider to be a good forum and what I consider to be a good forum. As someone who finds the evidence for LENR persuasive, I want a vigorous debate, with highly skilled skeptics, to help to sift truth from human imagination. This cannot be done in a forum that has policies that effectively make it an echo chamber of the views of people who already find LENR evidence persuasive. I personally want the most knowledgeable skeptics there are to join the discussion, and an environment that is welcoming to them.

    Quote from slashdevslashnull

    I think you have a problem to understand that what you call "character flaws" might actually be a discussion about ethics an morality. And this is perhaps an even more relevant discussion than the pseudo-technical ones. I dont see why it should be forbidden to discuss the morality of the forum members when those kind of arguments are used in every other post about Rossi? Doesn' make sense.


    There is a world of difference between calm discussions of the morality and ethics of some of the topics that are debated, on one hand, and attacks on the characters of individual participants, on the other. One is a fruitful discussion, and the other a mostly fruitless one.

    Quote

    The http://e-catworld.com forum may serve for reference: there are not clearance threads of playground threads, no aggressive moderation (for example my posts were never deleted or relocated from there) - yet the people there are way less hostile each other - and the plurality of opinions exist there too.


    A hint: I newer saw people like Mary Yugo there...


    There are multiple reasons you don't see me on e-catworld.com. First, it is heavily censored, pure and simple. So I couldn't post most of the things I want to-- they would be deleted without comment.


    In it's earlier days, anyone remotely skeptical of Rossi and Defkalion was simply banned including me. More recently, Frank (There's-Nothing-Too-Stupid-to-Believe) Acland has been forced to allow some super-polite and cautious critical posts because Rossi's fraud has been so blatant and unquestionable. Also because he bought a Steorn Orbo and experienced first hand the sociopathic duplicity and dishonesty of Sean McCarthy. But the forum is still obviously only for acolytes and believers and most of the participants have so little discrimination and knowledge of science and technology that it is not worth attempting participation.

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