Clearance Items

Quote from Alan Smith

LION does genuinely wish a successful outcome for his work, and ours.

But there ain't no way to hide his LION eyes.😁

Quote from Shane D.

Bob,

Oh those "missing windows"...now that was a fun time! I think the "scratches on the floor" originated with E48...and IHFB then picked up on that? No matter, as that was funny too, whoever brought it up.

Yes, I agree IHFB was out to lunch (wrong), and irritating at times with his repetitiveness. But with what he had to work with, I think he did about as well as any Rossi fan could do to deflect attention away from Rossi, and on to IH. His strategy reminded me of that old lawyer adage: "If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If not, then just argue". And IHFB excelled at "just arguing".

Personally, I was glad at that time (though very irritated) that we had IHFB. The best way to get to the truth of any debate is to argue both sides well and IHFB did as good a job as anyone could of arguing Rossi's side. I lament the lack of high quality opposition now, but in the circumstances it is understandable.

Quote from Bob

Shane,

"...IHFB proved when he was active. It sure would elevate the quality of the debate."

I take some level of exception to this credit being given. IHFB probably irritated me more than anyone. His "missing windows" and "scratches on the floors" and often barbs about Darden were just as desparate as the rest of the believers..... BUT he KEPT stating he was not biased, was simply looking at the facts...etc.

That was completely disingenuous. At least most of the believers state where they stand. IHFB said one thing but only argued another. I have little respect for that.

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I agree. In IH Fanboy's last (November 2017) appearance on this site, he appears to have realized that Rossi had been caught, on video, telling a big fat lie.

Rossi-Blog Comment Discussion

As you can see, rather than dealing with this realization, his last words were along the lines of 'Er wait, The Thanksgiving turkey calls. Gotta go'. And we have never heard from him again under the IH Fanboy moniker.

Who knows, perhaps he is now publishing under a different name. If that is so then all his self praise regarding integrity and lack of bias etc. is revealed as empty.

Not sure...maybe he is still here. At least his activity tracking shows something 14 hours ago...??

Just curious what happened to one of the heavy Rossi supporters and why he "left"...

Quote from stan

Why do you want to go on with this fruitless debate?

The particular discussion that IH Fanboy walked out on is a serial silencer of Rossi supporters. This involves a video that Setven Krivit took of one of Mr Rossi's ecat demonstrations and in it it is obvious that what Rossi is saying just can't be true. I have drawn the attention a number of Rossi supporters to this topic because the case against Rossi is so clear and depends on empirical measurements that anyone can make on viewing the video. No Rossi supporter has ever answered in a plain, straightforward fashion. Sometimes they just vanish (IH Fanboy and Engineer48), or they make a pretend argument and then make sure never again to revisit the argument (Tony), or they just studiously ignore the whole thing (Adrian Ashfield). It is my opinion that this is happening because all these people realize that the case against Mr Rossi is valid on this point and they don't wish to admit it. They just want to carry on pretending that the evidence doesn't exist. Their behaviour is intellectually dishonest. And in this case how can one value their other arguments? That is why I care and go on with the debate.

Quote from stan

Do you mean the video where he is taking away the cover of the power supply?

No: it was a video of one of Rossi's much earlier demos. He claimed a high COP from a system that heated water with steam generated from heating the water, just like Doral.

Unlike Doral the steam was vented via a hose, which one of the observers (yes, unlike Doral observers were allowed) asking Rossi to let them see the hose end. Rossi does this proudly, explaining how the steam generated by the reactor can be seen coming out of the end of the hose. He is really very convincing, and calculates the flow at some 7kg/hour.

Unless you know anything about steam, or have ever boiled a kettle. The measured water flow is high enough to need several kW to vaporise it, more than a kitchen kettle. Rossi of course claims that this power is generated. But the faint vapour lazily emerging from the hose end is clearly much, much less than this. Steam flow that Rossi himself calculates would make a velocity of 45m/s (150km/hour) coming from the 10mm hose.

The point here is that it demonstrates so clearly Rossi's technical incompetence, or if he is technically competent his duplicity. If you choose to think him honest - though why after Doral anyone would do that I don't know - then it is clear from this video that he has been deluding himself, imagining a high power generated when what exists is what you would expect from the electrical input.

The cognitive dissonance here is what it has always been. Rossi sells himself as an eccentric and individualistic, but brilliant, inventor. For him to misread the power generated from his device by such a very large amount, in his own standard test, shows him up as a quack, and for Rossi to have been dishonest in this early test is too much for even a typical Rossi supporter to stomach.

Of course all the early Rossi tests had similar issues, but this one was so very clear since caught on camera with Rossi himself looking at the result and continuing to claim something obviously impossible.

To be fair (or, given the choice here, unfair) Rossi seems to understand the dilemma pointing out that the emerging steam is so hot it cannot be seen, as in the steam from a kettle. You need to see the video for the full impact.

Rossi is good at protecting his demos from competent inspection: he failed in this one case.

THH

Quote from stan

Do you mean the video where he is taking away the cover of the power supply?

No. A different one. There is a thread devoted to this. Steven Krivit's 2012 video of Rossi demonstrating the E-Cat

The video I am referring to is the first one you see on the thread. Look at the steam coming from the hose Rossi holds up at about 11:30 in the video. Rossi claims this is from 7kg/hr of vapourized steam. Compare that with the video that Ascoli65 provided on page 2 of the thread showing what 7 kg/hr of steam actually looks like and you will see why Rossi's claims are not true. I also encourage you to try some simple calculations for yourself. Try estimating the velocity of the steam coming out of Rossi's hose. Then try figuring out the velocity expected for 7 kg/hr ... even the roughest calculations show that the two don't match by more than an order of magnitude.

Quote from stan

Well then he won't show anything substantial in the next years to come will he?

Correct.

THHuxleynew

The question of Rossi deluded or Rossi knowing and malevolent interests me too. In the case of the Krivit video, I think that the odds are stacked on the Rossi malevolent side because there must have been a steady stream of water coming out of that hose and Rossi would know that. You can see that when he first pulls the hose out of the hole in the wall he is careful to empty it of standing water and then subsequently he is careful to not keep the hose out of the wall any longer than necessary in case it starts to fill up again.

P.S. Giuseppi Levi is right there, loud and proud, in the Krivit video. Did he never look behind the wall to see what was normally coming out of the hose? And even if it never occurred to him at the time that the amount of steam emanating from the hose was far far to small to account for 7 kg/hr of vapourized water it must have occurred to him after the video became a cause celebre. He has never complained about the demonstration though. So I think we must place him, along with Rossi, in the malevolent rather than deluded group.

If the steam video isn't good enough, try to explain the steam to water path, once the 'steam', at atmospheric pressure, exits the blue container in the October 2011 Bologna videos. Note that at some point, the condensed water flows uphill in a large diameter hose, about 0.75 m, in order to refill the reservoir, without a pump (and therefore either at atmospheric pressure, or maybe even at a 'vacuum' due to condensation of steam). Note also the height of the condensers from which this 'steam' must condense to water, and compare to the elevation change of the water as it enters the reservoir. Approximately 750 L per hour of water or steam equivalent of that much water reportedly flows through the circuit.

Quote from Bruce__H

Sometimes they just vanish (IH Fanboy and Engineer48), or they make a pretend argument and then make sure never again to revisit the argument (Tony), or they just studiously ignore the whole thing (Adrian Ashfield). It is my opinion that this is happening because all these people realize that the case against Mr Rossi is valid on this point and they don't wish to admit it. They just want to carry on pretending that the evidence doesn't exist. It is intellectually dishonest. And in this case how can one value their other arguments? That is why I care and go on with the debate

Lack of Rossi supporters could also have something to do with the change in moderation tactics taking place after the settlement. It is only encouraged to discuss details of the unknown, while the elephant in the room is off limit. This seems not have been the case earlier here when there was less bias. I suppose this change is deliberate. As Mr Chomsky put it:

Quote from Noam Chomsky

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”

Quote from Paradigmnoia

If the steam video isn't good enough, try to explain the steam to water path, once the 'steam', at atmospheric pressure, exits the blue container in the October 2011 Bologna videos. Note that at some point, the condensed water flows uphill in a large diameter hose, about 0.75 m, in order to refill the reservoir, without a pump (and therefore either at atmospheric pressure, or maybe even at a 'vacuum' due to condensation of steam). Note also the height of the condensers from which this 'steam' must condense to water, and compare to the elevation change of the water as it enters the reservoir. Approximately 750 L per hour of water or steam equivalent of that much water reportedly flows through the circuit.

Do you have a link to the video?