Clearance Items

  • The more reading and watching this the more I realise that maybe commonalities in Mills/Holmid/Wyttenbach/Subtle Atomics perspectives are the right perspective (The last also combines a lot of these ideas, I'm not to sure about the growing Earth and background energy stuff). I say this with the utmost caution and admission of the possibility of being wrong. The solid state approaches just aren't repeatable enough without engineered technology on the nanoscale, Also experiments with the probably debatable assumption that this is mostly fusion will obviously not get repeatable expected results.


    Dusty plasma, or plasma/condensed condensate core reactors with the right elements and catalysts present are a different story. So you know the interpretation of the data of from Fleischmann and Pons can be wrong in many subtle ways, but the results of excess heat originating from hydrogen is most likely true. Probably isn't predominately room temperature fusion/transmutation, that is a side reaction compared to H shrinking and maybe some H annihilation in the plasma reactions. Remember electrical resonant transfer reactions probably can also absorb energy released, back into the hydrogen. Some of the side nuclear reactions would output less radiation than predicted in the presence if intense energy can be condensed into dense hydrogen/slow neutrons. if the results are mostly dense hydrogen, light, resonant energy transfer, and high energy large electrons you won't see as much nuclear results as you expect because it isn't predominantly a nuclear process or a vacuum one. Most of the energy is resonant chemical probably releases then jumps straight up to annihilation.


    I would use Hydrino reactions from water for a regular consumer combustion/chemical energy replacement, jumping straight to hydrogen annihilation for dense more thirsty energy needs. Forget fusion, it is only useful as a neutron/x-ray/gamma source in light of these two options stradling on both sides of the energy spectrum. Annihilation produces more energy than fusion directly as electrons. There's a reason why the sun is so far away lol, it's output would shred life to pieces due to the complex mixture of all the above reactions, assuming they are true. we should tailor our energy sources to give us what we want and as little of everything else as possible!

  • Which fiasco are you talking about?

    The spreadsheet fiasco where Ascoli65

    repeated time and time again vexatiously that Mizuno

    had pasted data.


    Ascoli65 remaining in clearance limbo in perpetuum .. ?


    a permanent ban is preferable.


    Ascoli65

    Member

    Likes Received

    X

    · Aug 7th 2019


    As for the control test, which was run the next day, on May 20, the "input power" column contains for sure the data coming from a different instrument with respect to those used to measure V/DC and I/DC. Very likely this other instrument is the wattmeter you have mentioned.


    PASTING

    JED Idon't know how you could add that data, or where it would go, or what use it would be.. The watt meter does not output data as far as I know. NO PASTING

    · Ascoli65Aug 7th 2019


    So, I understand that the portable wattmeter you plugged into the wall is a "third check" of the "Input power", the other two being the product V/DC*I/DC and the wired instrument, probably another wattmeter, connected with the HP A/D converter, which provides the data listed in the "Input power" column of the Mizuno's spreadsheets. Can you confirm this?


    If this is the case, the main question is why the measured data from the wired wattmeter, which should have appeared on the spreadsheet of the 120 W active test, were instead substituted by the values obtained by multiplying V/DC and I/DC (*)?


    Ascoli


    Implies PASTING

    · THHnew IAug 7th 2019

    7

    3) I can't say this is deliberate. To manually enter those wattmeter values would be a pain, might only be done once during cal to check V*I is OK. Or, in active runs there might have been need to use a/d inputs for another sensor. It is careless, and bad practice, but not sinister.

    Doesn’t question

    Ascoli’s

    PASTING


    Ascoli65

    Member

    Likes Received

    X

    · Aug 8th 2019


    As you correctly said, V*I and wattmeter results should always be ROUGHLY the same, as shown in the second graph of my jpeg (*), but NOT EXACTLY the same as shown in the first graph of the same jpeg.


    As for the control test, the discrepancy P-VxI - which ranges from -0.4 to +0.4 W - and the difference in the P and VxI shapes assure us that the "Input power" signal came from the wattmeter. Pay attention, please, not from the cheap portable wattmeter (Sanwa WattChecker, 75$) brought with him by JR, but from the expensive wattmeter (Yokogawa PZ 4000, 16000 $) which was connected to the HP data logger.


    On the contrary, the substantial identity between the "Input power" values and the "V/DC*I/DC" product shown in the active test spreadsheet strongly suggests that the original data coming from the Yokogawa wattmeter were substituted, in this only case, by the values obtained by simply multiplying the V/DC and I/DC columns.


    Pasting

    THHnew

    12th Sept

    I'd ask you to examine the forensic evidence which convincingly shows that the active set of figures are generated from V*I, and the control set of figures are not generated from V*I. {=PASTING}

    THHnew saying

    Ascoli pasting is convincing

    RBryant

    12th Sept

    Blower

    I was wondering why the 5W blower power difference is worse than the 120W heater power difference?

    Blower?

    THHnew

    12th Sept


    Blower

    I don't understand your point about 5W and 120W power difference. I don't know how you think this comment applies to the current matter?

    THHnew can’t understand BLOWER\

    Perhaps..

    THHnew

    12th Sept

    Thus the expectation from the 2017 paper description is that power and data logger samples are both automatically acquired by the PC and stored there, for output in CSV etc form as a spreadsheet.,

    Pasting

    RBryant

    12th Sept

    Blower?

    Pls examine

    The 5 watt blower data is germane..The discrepancy btw the V*I calculated power P and the stated pis much larger than for the 120W heater.In sorting out an anomaly its useful to examine where it is worst.Ascoli's belief is that the V and I values are averaged.Ascoli's belief is that the p values are pasted from ?..

    However .. one issueWhy is the discrepancy so much bigger (3-4x)for the 5W blower. (eg 1% vs 0.3%)

    BLOWER DATA

    Cf

    HEATER DATA

    THHnew

    13th Sept

    RB continues to post noise on here when asked to substantiate his view.

    THHnew

    Attempts

    to bully

    RBryant

    13th Sept


    Its not noisewhy does the the 5W blower power have three to four times the discrepancy of the 120W heater power..?Neither Ascoli nor his convincee THHnew have addressed this 3 to 4 x discrepancy in the extreme scenario ofthe purported use by Mizuno of a special averaging meter for the heater power measurementsand of pasting of results from one spreadsheet to another.I hope that from now on there will be silencio ..

    RWB

    Requests

    A+T to cease

    “pasting”

    allegations

    RBryant

    13th Sept


    This is highschool maths and THHnew and Ascoli65 are wouldbe technical experts..

    When one does spreadsheet work one of the first errors one should think of is truncation error..


    RWB points

    out the

    Truncation error is easy

    to find by

    A+T.

    THHnew

    14th Sept


    RB: the problem with this comment is that you are not reading what ascoli and I are saying, and claiming we are saying something completely different. That makes your posts very off topic and nonsensical.

    THHnew

    “blower is nonsense.”

    RBryant

    14th Sept


    Ascoli and THHnew are playing the math simpleton game


    RB repeats

    that A+T

    Should have

    Picked up truncation.

    THHnew

    14th Sept


    “Strangely, he considered rounding effects (= truncation) in much more detail than did RB above”



    T asserts that A

    already did truncation

    So why pasting..

    THHnew

    14th Sept


    Dear all, in the interests of communication, can anyone other than RB understand how his point relates to the heater issue?

    T attempts

    To negate blower

    Ascoli

    14th Sept

    Don't be surprised. RB is acting as any rational supporter of LENR should react to our analysis in accordance to the "cardinal rule" recommended by JR (1).

    A attempts

    To negate blower

    Ascoli

    14th Sept

    Why, on earth, someone should do so, if the authors of the original test deleted the more reliable data recorded during the original tests?

    A says Jed

    Deleted data

    RBryant

    14th Sept


    Don't be surprised that Ascoli65 won't even consider the simplest and most probable explanation of truncation error


    RBryant

    14th Sept


    Ascoli65 ignores the probable truncation error occurring in both the blower and Heater V*I.Ascoli65 cannot and will not acknowledge that this is consistentwith the much larger discrepancy seen in the 5W blower readings as compared to the 120W heaterThe blower 0.007 and heater 0.002 discrepancies are within the expected range of 0.007+/-.0013 and 0,0018+-0.0003 which might be expected from a truncation that causes 0.0025 average deviation in the V and I readings

    New statistical data reinforcing

    Truncation error at

    High significance level

  • You never know, such is life. All we can do is focus on the picture not how people edit it. Appreciating much of the commentary! Assimilating a deceptive identity to disrupt the truth will catch up to him one day, if that's the case!

  • 1.new Ascoli65 = paid Russian? troll ... assuming another identity.. deception is intentional


    Cold fusion in general, and this web site in particular, have no influence on society, and very little chance of success. No one would pay someone to spread nonsense here. That would not stop Mizuno and other researcher in any case.


    To put it another way, no one needs to pay people to suppress cold fusion because the scientific establishment is doing that for free.

  • Speak for yourself vexatious A

    Your idiosyncracy is solitary


    Read by yourself.

    Carefully, please.

    From FP's experiments discussion

    (Emphases added)


    Robert Horst

    Nov 6th 2018


    […]


    However, I looked at the video a couple dozen times and am inclined to agree that the arrows are foam levels, not liquid levels. The cells seem to transition through three clear phases. In the first phase, you can see that it is mostly liquid with gradually increasing bubbles as the liquid boils. In the second phase is is mostly foam and in the third phase, the foam level rapidly decreases to zero. You can tell the foam phase because sometimes the level decreases and then increases again, which could not happen with liquid. For instance, look at Cell 1 at 21:23 when it is full of foam, 21:40 when the top of the foam is a little lower, then 21:55 when it is full of foam again. Several times the video cuts away for hours between phases 1 and 2. For Cell 1, there is a cut between about 11:30 and 18:36.


    The Enthalpy Balance in the paper is based on only the last 10 minutes and assumes the liquid is boiling then. Even though I have great respect for Fleischmann's work in general, I would have to agree with Ascoli that this paper is likely flawed.


    For ease of finding them again, here are links to the video and the paper. (It is hard to get much out of stills. You need to run the video to see how the levels are changing.)


    http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Fleischmancalorimetra.pdf


  • The spreadsheet fiasco where Ascoli65

    repeated time and time again vexatiously that Mizuno

    had pasted data.


    It's not a fiasco. At least, it's not mine.


    I've already explained my reasons in this reply to LENR Calender (1). The discrepancy in the 2 spreadsheets only provides a plausible explanation of the difference between the "Input power" curves. In order to be sure, that both the "Input power" column contain the VxI products we should have the original spreadsheets with all the available digits.


    Anyway, let us assume that effectively both the original spreadsheets contain the product of the readings from the voltmeter and the amperometer. In such a case my objection to the missing of the wattmeter readings it's not solved, it is doubled! Because we wouldn't even know the wattmeter readings for the control run, notwithstanding the JCMNS article clearly states that these data were collected and recorded during the tests:

    From https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTpreprintob.pdf (emphases added)


    "The rectangles in the lower left of the figure represent the input power supply, the power input analyzer (Yokogawa, PZ 4000), the data logger (Agilent, 34970A), and the PC for data acquisition. […] Data from six reactor temperatures, electric power to the test reactor that is processed by the power-meter, electric currents and voltages for the power supply of the blower, and the temperatures of the inlet and the outlet air flows were collected by a data logger and recorded to a PC every 5 s."


    (1) Mizuno Airflow Calorimetry

  • Two scenarios


    1.new Ascoli65 = paid Russian? troll ... assuming another identity.. deception is intentional

    2.new Ascoli65 = the old Italian eccentric .. deception is self-deception.


    In the final analysis either A.. is a huge waste of time.. and an unnecessary distraction

  • Eric Walker Member Likes Received3,415

    This thread will be a kind of bargain bin for posts that are deemed to be

    • intentionally inflammatory,
    • willfully careless or of dubious factuality,
    • generally unhelpful,
    • or otherwise of low quality.
    • Ascolian commentary

    Posts moved to this thread will be left here so that people can rummage through them in the event that there is something redeeming to be found in one of them. Posts may still end up in the playground thread as well (e.g., when they're interesting but not on the topic of the original thread). As with the playground thread, people are free to continue conversations here if they like

  • The more reading and watching this the more I realise that maybe commonalities in Mills/Holmid/Wyttenbach/Subtle Atomics perspectives are the right perspective (The last also combines a lot of these ideas, I'm not to sure about the growing Earth and background energy stuff). I say this with the utmost caution and admission of the possibility of being wrong. The solid state approaches just aren't repeatable enough without engineered technology on the nanoscale, Also experiments with the probably debatable assumption that this is mostly fusion will obviously not get repeatable expected results.


    Dusty plasma, or plasma/condensed condensate core reactors with the right elements and catalysts present are a different story. So you know the interpretation of the data of from Fleischmann and Pons can be wrong in many subtle ways, but the results of excess heat originating from hydrogen is most likely true. Probably isn't predominately room temperature fusion/transmutation, that is a side reaction compared to H shrinking and maybe some H annihilation in the plasma reactions. Remember electrical resonant transfer reactions probably can also absorb energy released, back into the hydrogen. Some of the side nuclear reactions would output less radiation than predicted in the presence of dense hydrogen. if the results are mostly dense hydrogen, light, resonant energy transfer, and high energy large electrons you won't see as much nuclear results as you expect because it isn't predominantly a nuclear process or a vacuum one. Most of the energy is resonant chemical releases then jumps straight up to annihilation.


    I would use Hydrino reactions from water for a regular consumer combustion/chemical energy replacement, jumping straight to hydrogen annihilation for dense more thirsty energy needs. Forget fusion, it is only useful as a neutron/x-ray/gamma source in light of these two options stradling on both sides of the energy spectrum. Annihilation produces more energy than fusion directly as electrons. There's a reason why the sun is so far away lol, it's output would shred life to pieces due to the complex mixture of all the above reactions, assuming they are true. we should tailor our energy sources to give us what we want and as little of everything else as possible!

    Ahh probably should have posted this rant in the playground then.

  • "GENERATEUR D'ELECTRICITE PAR TRANSMUTATIONS NUCLEAIRES A BASSE ENERGIE

    L'objectif de la présente invention est la collecte des

    charges électriques générées par ces électrons dans le gaz

    d'une chambre d'ionisation dont la cathode est une plaque

    mince de nickel."

    [Date de dépôt: 20.03.14 - Dangerous priority]

  • Translation of abstract of above...


    'Numerous experiments have shown excess energy when nickel, confined in hydrogen, was brought to high temperature. The magnitude of these excess energy is such that only a nuclear origin can be considered. No stray radiation could be observed and the most likely hypothesis is an exo-energetic transmutation of nickel into copper after capture of a proton. The potential energy due to the mass differences between the nickel and copper isotopes is transformed into kinetic energy carried by electrons. The objective of the present invention is the collection of electrical charges generated by these electrons in the gas of an ionization chamber whose cathode is a thin plate of nickel. The filling gas consists partly of hydrogen, but in addition receives a noble gas such as argon, krypton, xenon, maintained under high pressure so as to reduce the maximum path of the emitted electrons, and improve the yield. electric. The control of the operating parameters, namely gas pressure, high voltage value, makes it possible to manage the balance between the energy recovered in the form of electrical charges and the energy recovered in thermal form.'


    I bet this is on Rossi's bedtime reading list...