Clearance Items

  • My own words:


    5) Supporters are ecstatic declaring the dawn of a new age

    6) Skeptics and non-combatants alike point out glaring problems with "the event" until it is clearly revealed as meaningless


    5 and 6 generally last a few weeks, so grab a beer and settle in.


    Boy did I blow it! Step 6 took at the most a day or two. Mea culpa.

  • Nah, first came what Rossisays on the Lugano fuel ash, and the QX data results. Then came his physics and math theory to try and put it all together.


    And since when is it ad-hominem to ask about someones credentials, experience, schooling, and background? Like I said, it was Lewan who brought up that Gullstrom was not presently in school, and was not with Rossi at the test the "Gullstrom Report" was based on. Is it OK for him to say it, but not me?


    Speaking of Lewan, I see on ECW he is saying the Swedes are still trying to replicate their Lugano results. He thinks when/if they have finished, confident with what they have, that they may report. So apparently the earlier rumors that they were successful were premature. Their appearance though at the DPS shows they are still believers in Rossi and his "Rossi Effect". I would take that to mean also that they support Gullstrom's theory (Hoistad endorsed it back in Dec 2014), although I could be wrong on that.


    Not entirely. There are about 32 slides with physics and math before any talk about Rossi and experiments.


    And calling him names and not worth listening to, using credentials you know noting about (not being in school could mean a lot of things) instead of arguing about the work he has done is clearly ad-hom.

  • An accusation of ad hom is not straightforward when credentials are relevant to the topic at hand and the audience is (in general) not versed in that topic.

    Maybe, but this was an answer to Axil about the physics and in that context I consider ShaneD arguing that Gullström is not worth reading since being a "dropout" as being clearly ad-hom.

  • For an audience in which many are not expert in physics, I think it's materially relevant that Gullstrom has not gone through all of the steps needed to complete a PhD. This is not really ad hom, because the detail is material for assessing the promise and likely value of Gullstrom's theory. The remark would be ad hom in either of these cases:

    • The remark was being made to experts in the relevant area of physics.
    • The remark was that Gullstrom is a bad person or something similar.

    Does the fact that Gullstrom has not completed his training mean that his theory is incorrect? Not in and of itself. It could be the next big thing. Is the fact relevant in assessing the theory? For sure it is.


    On a different note, I'll add that there was no obviously compelling connection between the Rossi experiment in the previous Gullstrom-Rossi paper and the exposition of meson physics in the sections that preceded it. This was a red flag that there were some non-sequiturs.

  • I think it's materially relevant that Gullstrom has not gone through all of the steps needed to complete a PhD. This is not really ad hom, because the detail is material for assessing the promise and likely value of Gullstrom's theory.


    Sorry then, I guess I mistakenly thought that the evaluation of a theory in physics should be based in the facts in the actual theory. Well, well.

  • Sorry then, I guess I mistakenly thought that the evaluation of a theory in physics should be based in the facts in the actual theory. Well, well.


    I assume you're not really sorry, but no matter. To your point, the evaluation of a theory in physics is clearly done at different levels by different people. This is the case in every area of knowledge. People with the relevant expertise can assess a set of claims on their merits. People without the expertise must rely on more indirect measures, such as the opinion of experts; and, in cases where no experts have yet weighed in, on other indirectly relevant facts.


    I have already acknowledged that the lack of completion of a PhD does not tell us a whole lot about Gullstrom's theory. What you have yet to acknowledge is that it does tell us something about it, and that Shane did no wrong in pointing this out.

  • LOL


    ECatworld.org

    Article "Black Friday Was a Day of Success for Rossi" by ECW Reporter. ^^


    Sifferkoll comment regarding the role of William S Hurley.

    "Yes, big oil is potentially a HUGE client. They have the infrastructure and the processes and with LENR they can make their own synthetic oil cheaply as well without the need of mideast or fracking, etc. It is huge."


    So big oil have gone from being part of the Forces of Evil trying to stop Rossi and are now Rossi's new best friend and saviour.:saint:


    The rest of the Forces of Evil are not going to like that! :evil:


    If Sifferkoll spins any more he is at risk of meeting himself coming back and disappearing up his own fundament. :D

  • I assume you're not really sorry, but no matter. To your point, the evaluation of a theory in physics is clearly done at different levels by different people. This is the case in every area of knowledge. People with the relevant expertise can assess a set of claims on their merits. People without the expertise must rely on more indirect measures, such as the opinion of experts; and, in cases where no experts have yet weighed in, on other indirectly relevant facts.


    I have already acknowledged that the lack of completion of a PhD does not tell us a whole lot about Gullstrom's theory. What you have yet to acknowledge is that it does tell us something about it, and that Shane did no wrong in pointing this out.


    I guess Gullström is still young and as far as I can see a doctoral student, not as Shane described him a "pre-grad drop-out" which implies someone not being able to complete the studies, which I find unlikely considering other variables and definately without proof. It's not entirely uncommon to take a year off to make some money or pursue other interests, who knows. And as stated elsewhere he seems to be endorsed by prof Hoistad. In that context I still think Shane made an ad-hom comment.

  • I certainly think Shane made a mistake. AFAIK Gullstrom is doing a PhD, though he may have been given leave to play with Rossi (I have no idea.) One thing for sure, he is not the teenager he appears to be, unless he started very young - being a father to four kids.

  • Tony,


    I went back and changed that part . I don't want to cause the guy any more trouble than what his association with Rossi may bring him. I would think his future colleagues will understand what is it like to be young, idealistic, naive (we all do) and that he was just trying to do some good. That Rossi's persuading him to trust his data which he bases his theory on, is more a reflection on Rossi the master manipulator, than he.


    The Italian mayor during the Petroldragon mess, stated that Rossi had this knack for convincing people he had something, when he did not, and that included scientists. We have seen that also in this Ecat chapter of Rossi's colorful history. There have been many qualified scientists/engineers we know of (Swedes/Levi/Lewan), and according to Alan...many we do not know of, that are convinced of Rossi. Even after all the incriminating evidence in the court documents. We see that here, and ECW also, with many popping up to defend the man after the DPS...even after caught on video messing with the PSU.


    So if/when this goes down in the books as an official scam, Gullstrom's name will be a mere footnote. As it should be.

  • Sifferkoll comment regarding the role of William S Hurley.


    "Yes, big oil is potentially a HUGE client. They have the infrastructure and the processes and with LENR they can make their own syn


    I had a word with the oilman. I asked him what his interest was , a politer version of 'wtf are you doing here?'. His reply was - I work for a huge refinery company with plants all over the USA. We use a lot of heat'. So Sifferkoll may well be right.

  • Alan Smith

    Thank you for the information.

    Indeed as a stand-alone piece of logic then indeed there could be a market here for heat.


    Problem 1 is; this goes against some of the previous conspiracy theories from Sifferkoll. That was my main point.

    If one is into conspiracy theories then one could also argue that he is an oil industry man sent in to spy on Rossi. Not that I believe that either, but of course I cannot prove he isn't. ;)


    Problem 2 is; taking the view that Rossi does have a viable LENR product then Rossi in bed with the fossil fuel business may be a problematic path for LENR to take. Many feel the fossil fuel business may have peaked, or peak soon, in which case Rossi is teaming up with yesterday's energy providers rather than tomorrow's. Also if Rossi had problems dealing with IH then how is it going to work with the oil industry? I would think they would have a conflict of interest in Rossi delivering LENR to the world.

  • His reply was - I work for a huge refinery company with plants all over the USA. We use a lot of heat'.

    This would be similar to company in 1960 that makes mechanical adding machines and slide rules buying a computer. Frankly, it is ridiculous. If Rossi's claims are real, or if any form of cold fusion comes within 10 years of certain commercialization, the only sensible business plan for an oil company would be to begin an orderly liquidation of their refineries, oil tankers, pipelines and other equipment. It will become worthless soon, long before adding cold fusion process heat could produce a return on investment. They should invest in cold fusion, or desalination, or frozen pizza. Anything but oil.


    On the other hand, in some instances the commercial lifetime of obsolescent technology is extended by incorporating the technology that is destroying it. To take an example I gave in my book, in the second half of the 19th century and up until around 1918, sailing ships were built with iron hulls and then steel hulls, and they incorporated the latest advances in marine technology. They were doomed by steel-hulled steamships, but they borrowed some the technology to keep their business alive a few extra decades.


    None of the sailing ship builders survived the transition to steam ships. Only a handful of railroads survived the transition to trucks, highways, and passenger airplanes. No steam locomotive company survived the transition to Diesel and electric locomotives. None of the minicomputer companies survived the transition to microcomputers. Sears and other major retailers did not not respond to Amazon.com, and I think they are now doomed. Generally speaking, market leaders are wiped out by new technology. They seldom adapt to it in time. See the book "The Innovator's Dilemma" for additional examples and details.

  • Quote

    I had a word with the oilman. I asked him what his interest was , a politer version of 'wtf are you doing here?'. His reply was - I work for a huge refinery company with plants all over the USA. We use a lot of heat'. So Sifferkoll may well be right.

    I had some extra miles on my UAL credit card and I know some great restaurants in Stockholm might have been a more honest answer. Expecting to get a lot of heat from Rossi is like expecting a used car salesman to tell you the truth about his merchandise.

  • LENR has been in development since the time of Tesla, that is more than a century. Yes, that is a long time by comparison hot fusion and fission has been under development since the 1950s. When do we say enough?


    Come on Axil, give me a break. Have you not seen me arguing exactly that same stuff here, and long ago over on ECN's? I AM an LENR fan, just not with Rossi. He is a sleazebag.

  • Quote

    The conclusion that is hard to avoid is that the demo was intentionally flawed.

    Exactly what Steorn and Sean McCarthy did in their final extravaganza show at Waterways. Their "self charging" magnetic motor (Orbo) featured a very prominent large battery. They claimed it recharged its own battery. At the show, they had very expensive and capable measuring tools including high frequency digital computing oscilloscopes of the best type then available. Did they use them to demonstrate recharging of the battery by Orbo for which they were perfectly suited? Nope. They measured all sorts of irrelevant stuff of no interest but never would place the probes in the right places even when asked on their forum by several people to do so. Finally, they claimed to have done "bespoke calorimetry" to prove the energy balance but of course, it showed nothing. All they presented was a vague diagram of the calorimeter and a single chart showing a pair of curves without labels. Not too different from what Rossi did and showed at this recent DPS. They also had a stream with video cameras which could have been used to show the batteries were never charged but they claimed the devices needed frequent maintenance to keep them running so they took them off line often -- about the right interval to recharge their batteries from the mains. Obvious as hell yet some of their investors actually gave them MORE money after that!


    Rossi really does follow the Steorn script pretty closely, whether deliberately or by accident. With most scammers, their actions are quite deliberate and carefully planned and tested in advance.

  • Rossi has an extensive history of avoiding or alienating anyone who asks tough questions. So finding investors on the basis of meaningless parlor tricks is a good strategy if he wants to avoid anyone who might demand actual results from him and limit himself to only the most gullible.