April 18 19 20
Sound like some one got the memo lol
Clearance Items
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Nice story on the Capo's from Apco. Talking about getting the nuclear energy sector to the next level. And for so little money...you would be crazy not to hire them if you stepped in a wet prosciutto / gorgonzola tosti..
Interesting. So the same APCO rats who IH hired to trash Rossi were acting middlemen when the Russians paid the Clintons for old school nuclear fission lobbying and access to US market ... Add to that, the Russians have also been busy helping the Clintons to trash Trump as additional payment for performed services I suppose... Wow. It would be somewhat interesting to know the assignment specifics when Apco entered the IH/Rossi debacle. I seem to remember that was about the same time Darden turned negative ... going from hard selling MW plants to the chinese to working full time trashing Rossi....
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Frankle - APCO was a multi-faceted and broad-reaching PR agency. Not making any excuses or providing any commentary for who they had as clients but surely you know that the r-meister soiled his own nest.
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Frankle - APCO was a multi-faceted and broad-reaching PR agency. Not making any excuses or providing any commentary for who they had as clients but surely you know that the r-meister soiled his own nest.
Of course, we know that since long ... or maybe there's more to it ... maybe not everything is told ... This APCO link gives some new light to the story in my opinion. I mean, these APCO folks are pro spinners and liars. Worst kind. They only show up when there is *stuff* going on and things to cover up. Its what they do.
"Multi faceted and broad reaching" ... Thats one way to put it I guess. I somehow get the feeling though they do not get involved without *multi faceted* reasons ... Kind of funny though those Russians really seems to be everywhere (but not where we are told...)
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What APCO did elsewhere is politics, what they did for, or to, IH/Rossi is LENR related. The Rossi fans are entitled to their opinion as to APCO's role, but one thing I would like to point out:
After IH/Rossi settled, they had nothing to do with Rossi abandoning the Ecat LT 1MW line. He did that on his own, and covered with a flimsy story about customers no longer wanting it. Preferring instead to wait years for the QX. Therefore it was obsolete. Yeah right.
Dumping the 1MW made no sense if Doral was the success he claimed it was, but made perfect sense if Doral was the sham most here believe it was. So in conclusion...Doral was a scam, and the APCO thing is a red herring.
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What APCO did elsewhere is politics, what they did for, or to, IH/Rossi is LENR related. The Rossi fans are entitled to their opinion as to APCO's role, but one thing I would like to point out:
After IH/Rossi settled, they had nothing to do with Rossi abandoning the Ecat LT 1MW line. He did that on his own, and covered with a flimsy story about customers no longer wanting it. Preferring instead to wait years for the QX. Therefore it was obsolete. Yeah right.
Dumping the 1MW made no sense if Doral was the success he claimed it was, but made perfect sense if Doral was the sham most here believe it was. So in conclusion...Doral was a scam, and the APCO thing is a red herring.
I'm not as sure as you are. I know you rather make up your own facts than listening to Rossi, but if you for a minute or two pretend he is telling mostly the truth (difficult yes, but not impossible...) then the MW plant requiring him present more or less 24/7 (and Fulvio the rest of the time) is not even close to a scalable solution. And since Rossi is only in the game to sell working plants it is worse than obsolete - it simply will not work if he is not there to micro manage it. QX is the only possible next step. However, it remains to be seen if it is scalable enough with high enough availability to be economical. The QX "fuel" cells will need to be dirt cheap - more or less like AAA batteries - and require minimal maintenance - to compete with other industrial solutions for heating.
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Frankl,
What you say is wrong on so many levels, I really do not know where to start. I "pretended" for years, not a minute or two, that Rossi was telling the truth. All the way past Doral, and up until I read the first court documents. After that...no one with an ounce of sense could go on believing in him. So been there, done that, no more.
And the excuse for Rossi shelving the Doral 1MW, because "it will simply not work if he is not there to micro manage it", is, sorry, laughable. Any number of companies could engineer a control system that would automate the process much, much more efficiently than he does manually by turning nobs, and opening valves, guided mostly by what he hears through his stethoscope. And that is only *IF* the thing works, which it does not. Doral proved that, and his declaring it obsolete, dismantling it, and then starting anew with this QX gadget...that has a controller 10 times the size of what it controls, and consumes as much as what it controls makes, shows the whole thing was a sting operation from start to finish.
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Frankl,
What you say is wrong on so many levels, I really do not know where to start. I "pretended" for years, not a minute or two, that Rossi was telling the truth. All the way past Doral, and up until I read the first court documents. After that...no one with an ounce of sense could go on believing in him. So been there, done that, no more.
And the excuse for Rossi shelving the Doral 1MW, because "it will simply not work if he is not there to micro manage it", is, sorry, laughable. Any number of companies could engineer a control system that would automate the process much, much more efficiently than he does manually by turning nobs, and opening valves, guided mostly by what he hears through his stethoscope. And that is only *IF* the thing works, which it does not. Doral proved that, and his declaring it obsolete, dismantling it, and then starting anew with this QX gadget...that has a controller 10 times the size of what it controls, and consumes as much as what it controls makes, shows the whole thing was a sting operation from start to finish.
How exactly do you know "Any number of companies could engineer a control system that would automate the process much, much more efficiently" ? From what I read none except Rossi (and maybe Fulvio to some degree) has that knowledge, or? And especially since Rossi obviously did not want to reveal too much about the process. At least until he was paid - which he never was.
"And that is only *IF* the thing works, which it does not." What evidence do you have, that none else seem to have? Its a bit suspicious the way you express yourself in absolutes, when it is pretty clear you dont know more than anyone else...
In what way does -- "that has a controller 10 times the size of what it controls," prove that it doesnt work? To me this looks more like a political statement than scientific.
From what I can see it looks more like you are reciting a script of a spinner, than trying to debunk or understand anything. And not very good either dealing in absolutes and arguing as things are obvious when they are clearly not, etc.
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Anyone making a habit of accusing others here of being (e.g., paid) shills runs the risk of getting booted with little ado or afterthought.
Is it allowed to mention the APCO involvement (more or less the definition of paid shills = PR) in the Rossi/IH debacle?
Is it allowed to say something looks more like PR than rational arguing to me? Or is that the same thing as accusing someone of fraud?
Is it allowed to discuss the elephant in the room? Trying to get the hang of it you know...
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The whole APCO thread is one of the chips in Boor's Bingo, even if we've suffered it in the past. It will be a short end if forum members start becoming the targets of accusations of being here on account of APCO.
Shane is legit and has paid his dues on LENR-related forums for years. I don't see how his opinions could be considered PR. It's at minimum a tendentious assertion, and it doesn't take things in a good direction.
Well, there was some new light on APCO due to the Breitbart article with the Clinton/Uranium/Russian connections. And to my defense; I was only commenting on Shanes recent post, not his complete CV and past dues. Sorry about that. He might be sincere or not - I have no idea.
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He might be sincere or not - I have no idea.
And as you have no idea, perhaps you should not express your opinions publicly. Members here are considered to be sincere, honest and reasonable in their opinions. Doubts about this can be expressed, but should be based on facts rather than feelings. Just like science.
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Frankl,
Absolutes are rare in life and rarer still in LENR, but I do not have the slightest hesitation saying that Rossi did not produce anywhere near 1 MW thermal in Doral as he claimed. Yes, I am absolutely sure about that. Why?...the missing heat. It has has been beaten to death here, but that does not make it any less damning to Rossi. First he said it was dissipated through the roof and walls. When that was heavily questioned, he switched to the heat being endothermically absorbed by the product he/JM, was rolling out on the other side of the wall. When it became obvious there was no product, he concocted the "mezzazine (upstairs) heat exchanger" to get rid of the heat.
And oh boy, was that a doozy! He testified under oath that he hired a couple of day laborers on a cash only basis to lay tons of piping from downstairs, to the upstairs room where he put up a radiator type assembly. Put a fan blowing over it, and another pointing away from it towards a window 10' away. There are no pictures of it, and the pictures that do exist of the facility, somehow always have the plumbing blocked by something else. No schematics of it, and what drawing he provided the court does not even show it on there. No traces of the HE exist either, as he testified also that he disassembled it after the test -after both he and IH separately padlocked the 1MW so neither would tamper (which he did anyway) with the evidence, and "repurposed (reused) " the pieces to his other project. Guess that QX used up those tons of steel right.
The fans, yep, disassembled and repurposed too.He did not stop there though, he disassembled so much of the external plumbing attached to the 1MW plant going to and from the JM production container, that no one would ever be able to examine the physical layout to determine how it would work, or even if it was possible that it could work. Then there are his outright lies about JM, product, destroying valuable data....
Yes, sir, I seldom speak in such absolutes, but this I will make an exception for.
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Frankl,
Absolutes are rare in life and rarer still in LENR, but I do not have the slightest hesitation saying that Rossi did not produce anywhere near 1 MW thermal in Doral as he claimed. Yes, I am absolutely sure about that. Why?...the missing heat. It has has been beaten to death here, but that does not make it any less damning to Rossi. First he said it was dissipated through the roof and walls. When that was heavily questioned, he switched to the heat being endothermically absorbed by the product he/JM, was rolling out on the other side of the wall. When it became obvious there was no product, he concocted the "mezzazine (upstairs) heat exchanger" to get rid of the heat.
And oh boy, was that a doozy! He testified under oath that he hired a couple of day laborers on a cash only basis to lay tons of piping from downstairs, to the upstairs room where he put up a radiator type assembly. Put a fan blowing over it, and another pointing away from it towards a window 10' away. There are no pictures of it, and the pictures that do exist of the facility, somehow always have the plumbing blocked by something else. No schematics of it, and what drawing he provided the court does not even show it on there. No traces of the HE exist either, as he testified also that he disassembled it after the test -after both he and IH separately padlocked the 1MW so neither would tamper (which he did anyway) with the evidence, and "repurposed (reused) " the pieces to his other project. Guess that QX used up those tons of steel right.
The fans, yep, disassembled and repurposed too.He did not stop there though, he disassembled so much of the external plumbing attached to the 1MW plant going to and from the JM production container, that no one would ever be able to examine the physical layout to determine how it would work, or even if it was possible that it could work. Then there are his outright lies about JM, product, destroying valuable data....
Yes, sir, I seldom speak in such absolutes, but this I will make an exception for.
I see. Seems like you are accusing Rossi of lying under under oath in his testimony? I suppose you have hard evidence to show me right? Kind of curious to why you didn't hand these over to IH so that they could prove this scam to the court. From reading you that should have been the obvious outcome. Piece of cake...
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The whole APCO thread is one of the chips in Boor's Bingo, even if we've suffered it in the past. It will be a short end if forum members start becoming the targets of accusations of being here on account of APCO.
Shane is legit and has paid his dues on LENR-related forums for years. I don't see how his opinions could be considered PR. It's at minimum a tendentious assertion, and it doesn't take things in a good direction.
Eric,
Forget it amigo, I have been down this road before, you simply cannot argue faith with the faithful.
Under no circumstances, under any conditions will any of the faithful ever admit they are wrong, ever.
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And oh boy, was that a doozy! He testified under oath that he hired a couple of day laborers on a cash only basis to lay tons of piping from downstairs, to the upstairs room where he put up a radiator type assembly. Put a fan blowing over it, and another pointing away from it towards a window 10' away. There are no pictures of it, and the pictures that do exist of the facility, somehow always have the plumbing blocked by something else. No schematics of it, and what drawing he provided the court ...
Don't forget that THHuxleynew did a very nice job of showing that the heat exchanger that Rossi specified to the court would not have been able to handle 1MW of heat after all. The specs were sufficient to dissipate 1MW according to the values of some physical constants given in a textbook that Rosssi apparently relied upon, but Rossi misread the conditions for which the constants were specified and as a result any real instantiation of the heat exchanger would not have had the needed capacity.
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I see. Seems like you are accusing Rossi of lying under under oath in his testimony? I suppose you have hard evidence to show me right? Kind of curious to why you didn't hand these over to IH so that they could prove this scam to the court. From reading you that should have been the obvious outcome. Piece of cake...
Yes Frank, there is plenty of hard proof Rossi lied under oath. It is right there in the court records. Even his more faithful had to admit that, and as a result switched strategies to justify his deceit, instead of denying it. Maybe it would be good time for you to do the same?
There is also plenty of proof Rossi has lied on his JONP about customers, factories, certification. He admitted lying to his friend and supporter Prof. Kullander about the fuel ash sample. He bragged to IH that he tricked, and lied to his most loyal licensee (Hydrofusion).
Amazing you have missed all this.
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I see. Seems like you are accusing Rossi of lying under under oath in his testimony? I suppose you have hard evidence to show me right? Kind of curious to why you didn't hand these over to IH so that they could prove this scam to the court. From reading you that should have been the obvious outcome. Piece of cake...
Frankl, many of us read the Court testimony as it emerged, an unusual amount of which is in the public record.
(1) Rossi himself boasted about lying to Hydrofusion. He was either lying to IH in saying his demo for them was meant to fail to get out of a contract, or lying to Hydrofusion themselves.
(2) Rossi lied (looking at the totality of Court evidence there is no other word for it) to IH about the supposed "customer", who was in fact Rossi. To this end he reported dialogs that he had with himself,
(3) Rossi's (US) expert validating the heat exchanger gives as his only reference for the calculation an Itatalian website of physical data (no English translation). And the critical coefficient quoted is not even there, nor anything like it.
(4) Rossi told his employees - who worked identically for IH and "the customer" - to enter and exit the two halves of the facility externally so as never to be seen crossing the magical Oz's curtain separating IH from the customer.
(5) Rossi himself replumbed the whole system replacing meters etc, making any determination of what it actually did impossible.
(6) Rossi's friend Penon conveniently destroyed the detailed data that would allow forensic examination of the heat claims, and generated a report provably inconsistent with the utility company figures.
(7) Rossi suddenly decided to settle just before he was due to give evidence in Court, and potentially make damaging admissions or perjure himself.
Go figure.
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Yes Frank, there is plenty of hard proof Rossi lied under oath. It is right there in the court records. Even his more faithful had to admit that, and as a result switched strategies to justify his deceit, instead of denying it. Maybe it would be good time for you to do the same?
There is also plenty of proof Rossi has lied on his JONP about customers, factories, certification. He admitted lying to his friend and supporter Prof. Kullander about the fuel ash sample. He bragged to IH that he tricked, and lied to his most loyal licensee (Hydrofusion).
Amazing you have missed all this.
and Roseland67 THHuxleynew Bruce__H (wow this seems like and important subject for a lot of people ... )
Ok. So if that is such an obvious fact - why didnt IH simply make the kill? With all those APCO and Jones Day pros it should have been an absolute nobrainer, right? And as far as I can see Hydrofusion and the swedes are still in the game?
