Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • Oh well mods some heads up next time as that thread was bumping.



    This bares (and bears) repeating. My copypasta.

    I'm still licking my wounds but my gaze has turned towards IH and they said they would fix this issue. Oh boy, it was AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN a ploy all along wasn't it? Posturing is that the right term? Next time you guys pipe up... No matter what Rossi did in the end is was about the money, not making this a better world. And before some paid stooge comes in from either side I would really consider it.


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  • I am quite disappointed the case resolved in a settlement. While the US civil practice wouldn't have set in stone the validity of the Doral test (because of lack of court 3rd party ordered tests on the plant), I would have been interested in reading the transcript of the deposition of the following people:

    - De Giovanni: who is? What is this American Platinum Trust? What are his interests in the matter?

    - Penon: are him still convinced of the validity of the test? Why the report is not taking into account the dissipation of the heat?

    - Levi and Hoistad: are them still convinced of the vality of the Lugano Report?


    If Rossi instead has something (and, as much as it sounds strange, fake Doral test would actually be no proof he hasn't), then he did a wonderful job of being payed for R&D for more than 2 years and still keep the IP intact. As usual, time will tell. If Levi and Hoistad, listed as plaintiff witnesses, were to leave some positive depositions in the trial (we will never know for sure), we could have predicted that something had to happen within a reasonable time frame, let say 2 years. If in two years from now Rossi will still be talking about sigma, then I will be 6-sigma certain that he had nothing from the beginning.


    I appear to live 15 minutes away from Penon's company location. At some point I may decide to collect some fair/answerable questions (I am open to suggestions) about the matter and handle them by hand.

  • Yes, it is a disappointment, in some ways.


    I think American Platinum trust was another Rossi front company, set up to communicate with Johnson Matthey.


    You have to assume Levi and Hoistad would have backed up Rossi - why would he have called them as witnesses otherwise?


    Penon knows the truth, but I doubt you'll get to it by door-stepping him. Anyway, I also doubt you'll find him: He'll be out driving his newly-bought Ferrari.

  • Forget about Rossi, and think about LENR research.

    the need is to have funding to make a modern (not shoestring) investigation on that phenomenon. Naively I see PdD widely reproduced line of research as good direction, but if NiH (excluding the Rossi Say's claims) can be solid, would be great.


    This can be done by seeing one real guy, a bit openminded, saying him that LENR is an observed phenomenon of interest.


    and then they say "remember Rossi and it's followers", and then he laugh.


    and then it is done.


    If it works it have to be proven, and not by a dummy company, with an imaginary heat exchanger and data measured with an Excell spreadshit formula, or by a magician show with physicist who say they worked independently while they let the inventor more time with the baby than they did themselves.


    People may find me virulent, but I DEFENDED ROSSI. Like Dewey, like Darden, I invested something precious in Rossi's claims, and I feel fooled.

    Some friend I respect even said I was a paid shill. some other friends got ballistic because of that circus. Some other friends invest money, and time in consequences of Rossi's claims. Some people I respect or admire insults some people I respect or admire.


    It have to be decided, and since people as for LENR calorimetry evidence, don't believe in Pacermonitor evidences, an authority have to conclude, and make a clear report. It did not happen and the Schödinger e-cat is still undecided in it's manufactured doubt box.

  • One last thought about the case that just occurred to me. If either party had lawsuit insurance, their out of pocket would have been limited to about $500,000.


    On the future, I hope that this case did not affect the probability of future investments in LENR. As a non-scientist, I am not convinced that LENR is real but I think there is enough evidence that someone needs to channel their inner Rikki-Tikki-Tavi and find out for sure.

  • Forget about Rossi, and think about LENR research.

    the need is to have funding to make a modern (not shoestring) investigation on that phenomenon. Naively I see PdD widely reproduced line of research as good direction, but if NiH (excluding the Rossi Say's claims) can be solid, would be great.


    This can be done by seeing one real guy, a bit openminded, saying him that LENR is an observed phenomenon of interest.


    and then they say "remember Rossi and it's followers", and then he laugh.


    and then it is done.


    You have been always biased against Rossi. So biased that it was quite surprising for me that you are a moderator here.

    Why such an angry ? And why exclude Rossi documented results ?

    Take in account that the vast majority of critics against Rossi was triggered by economic interest and had not any scientific ground.


    Personally I don't see that Pd-D is promising. I presume that in future Rossi will be still a first actor in the LENR scene.

    And, like for "hot" superconductivity, we will have a technology that works but before elaborating a complete Physics theory of the phenomenon could take year. In fact for superconductivity there is still no valid theory .

  • the vast majority of critics against Rossi was triggered by economic interest and had not any scientific ground.



    The critiques I submitted were triggered by the embarrassment of having entertained for some time the idea there could be something real. The benefit of doubt was due to Focardi's endorsement. Rossi was never credible but I did fantasize that with the guidance of a serious physicist and a good deal of hands-on practice this lunatic character had stumbled upon a boosted F&P effect.


    My critiques had engineering grounds. Science is for explaining a phenomenon. Engineering knowledge is enough to understand basic measurements and assess if there is a phenomenon to be studied.


    On second thought the phenomenon to be studied is there, but pertains to sociology and or psychology only.

  • Con men "reward" loyalty with more scams. Sean McCarthy (Steorn) kept taking money from investors long after his "product" (Orbo) had failed over and over again and had never been proven to work over the course of six years. And believers still gave him some. He thought it was hilarious and said so on the Moletrap forum. Rossi will try to do the same if he doesn't retire.

    Rossi never asked for money to any of the people who made an advance order for his E-Cat. IH paid for the IP and got it. Nobody still knows who it belongs to now, but anyone who owns it has certainly bought it.Yours are as usual misrepresent conjectures.

  • If Abd is right, and he probably is, this was actually a win for IH too. Even more so than Rossi, but I still give Rossi a win, because he walks away from another run in with with the law, with enough of a fan base, and money to get back to what he craves...making shit up, and being adored for it. :)"

    Do not confuse things ... In the past, Rossi has had problems with the law but only because he had been wrongfully accused, and in fact he was acquitted. This time he has sued, and if he did, he knew he had good reasons. Much of the files of this case have remained secreted, so there are still so many things that we do not know. It may be that in those hidden phrases there are the reason for which IH accepted the settlement. As for the future of Rossi, give him time: now that he no longer has the discomfort of having to deal with IH, he can devote himself to his work and get where he has promised.

  • There is one big difference. If I understand the lawyers here, in a civil suit the judge insists the case be dismissed "with prejudice." That means neither side can file suit over this Agreement or any other involved in the case. There is no longer any danger that Rossi will demand $267 million, or that he might actually get that kind of money because gullible jurors believe his lies. I doubt there is anything more he can do to hurt I.H., or to force them to spend millions on legal defense.

    Poor IH .... how much money spent to defend themselves from Rossi! Of course they will need so much liquidity for the upcoming Orders and for the next SEC control .... ops, what a fool I am ..... I forgot that they would just have to declare yet another bankruptcy in order to keep their favorite game undisturbed.

  • I think it has already been suggested by others that the only value that the IP has now for IH is a protection in case they actually stumble over a working LENR device and Rossi comes after them for a share of the money.

    I don't think it's possible for them to bump casually into a working LENR device, at least if we talk about inventors belonging to their portfolio. What can happen is that from that group comes out a reactor strangely much like the E-Cat and that gives the same good results it had given in the first IH tests. Just to prove that IH had never received exhaustive explanations from Rossi about his technology .... :)

  • I think there was more to it than that. The trial seemed to stop for two days after a mistrial, but Dewey made a cryptic post each evening, suggesting some rumblings were happening beneath the surface.

    I doubt that Dewey expected the settlement: Abd wrote on ECW that Dewey is angry at the outcome of the trial. And I understand it ..... after shouting like a maniac and throwing threats right, left and centre it's normal for him to be disappointed.

  • On second thought the phenomenon to be studied is there, but pertains to sociology and or psychology only.

    No AndreaS. If that was true IH would never settled and the ECAT have never passed the IH test done in Ferrara.

    Sociology and Psychology are good to study this Forum.

  • SSC - the fabricating spin continues unabated - I realize that you cannot help yourself and that it is your mission so for the record, I have not spoken to anybody and nobody knows how I feel about the litigation outcome. The aforementioned fireworks were for Siffer and Kevmo getting banned on July 4th. Looks like you have nice weather this weekend so enjoy.

  • Rossi unfortunately has a very long list of former supporters who are now more enemies!

    Most people I know who worked with Rossi in the lab hate his guts. One soft-spoken academic scientist said, "if I ever meet Rossi again I will punch him in the nose."


    I do not know how Levi et al. feel about him. I guess they still support him. Penon is his paid lap dog so he doesn't count. I guess Lewan still likes him, but he is not a scientist who worked with Rossi in the lab, so he is in another category. Needless to say, many people here are still in thrall of him. Or at least, they say they are. I wonder how many of them would invest $1,000 in his next scam . . .


    I had mixed feelings about him all along, until I saw some of the Penon data. That made me think he must be grossly incompetent, and he must be making up numbers on days when he did not bother to record the data. Then the revelations of the lawsuit docket convinced me that he is an appalling fraud. Much worse than I imagined. I misjudged him for many years. As Franklin said, experience is a dear teacher but a fool will learn at no other.

  • the vast majority of critics against Rossi was triggered by economic interest and had not any scientific ground.


    This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen you write - and believe me, there's a lot of competition.



    Oh poor Dewey. How are you ? What about all your predictions about the trial?


    Terribly bad form. In fact, you disgrace yourself.

  • OK, my computation was 4.3 but I did simplify to one average temperature throughout the dogbone. Maybe you split (the hairs and) the cylinder into sections as in Lugano and this explains some difference. Glad that we are substantially in agreement.

    Firstly, my version from the 2017 re-test, although it should have been very close to the same.

    I used a lower average temperature also, (you used 1524 C ?) using the Optris software and the wide main tube box and small caps boxes seen in my image. The recursive method was used, which arrived at different emissivities than the starting emissivity settings.

    I used this calculator for radiant and convective power: Convection Wizard


    Most importantly, using the wide average does not in fact work well with the MFMP device. The Lugano device is much more isothermal along the main tube length than the MFMP version, and has hotter caps with better heat distribution than the MFMP device due to 1/3 of the calibrated resistance wire length being within the caps (three phases, three wires heating each cap). Whoever designed the Lugano device did a good job at getting good, even heat distribution, even if it is a pain to power up.


    The Professors did a good thing in making the small measuring areas in the Lugano report, despite it being possibly not as necessary (compared to the MPMP version) considering the even heat characteristics of the Lugano device.

    It is, however, critical for unevenly heated devices, like the MFMP version (Alan G, it was plenty good for the purpose, this is not a criticism of your device). The temperature averaging of the Optris measuring box is not effective for radiant power calculating if the temperature range in the box has a wide range. Double-checking my work, the 0.95 emissivity setting (top boxes) from the same image was trending towards a COP of just under 2 using the long measuring box (image re-posted below). A quick test with a three boxes over the main device body (ribbed tube area) dropped the calculated COP much closer to 1. I made a copy of the Lugano measuring areas as a layout for the Optris, (posted here in a zip file a few months ago), and will try that out.


    I bet I will get really close to COP 1 when overlain over the MFMP RAVI file using those boxes and calculating the individual areas, then summing them up.

    Then using the recursive method and the Plot 1 as used in the Lugano report (see the bottom image below) at the same temperature I predict a calculated COP of about 3.2