Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • IH people came out weakened by this process: they proved to be incompetent and presumptuous, they paid 11.5M to have nothing in hand, neither the IP nor the 1MW plant and they spent millions in lawyers. But their supporters will continue to repeat to us perpetually that it was Rossi that came out defeated by this affair. They obviously need to believe this ....


    Well OBVIOUSLY Rossi did not come out defeated. But nor did he win the case and the hundreds of millions he was claiming.


    And OBVIOUSLY if the whole Rossi/IH thing were a con then at the end the conman (Rossi) would end up with a lot of money and the mark (IH) would end up with nothing. So at the end of the process does it look like it was a con?


    I am not interested in "But the con man says this" or "But the conman showed us some figures" or "But the conman has a friend who verifies his stuff".


    The only way out for a real business man would be to say "It was a business disagreement over a bad deal. So now I will sell my product with another partner."

    What a conman would do is say "Oh I dropped that product, I have a wonderful new thing that you must see, except you can't because its secret, but I can show you a photo".

  • Quote

    Well OBVIOUSLY Rossi did not come out defeated.

    Not so fast, siwwie wabbit.


    On the main law suit brought by Rossi for $89M plus triple punitive damages, Rossi settled for nothing on the complaint and paid his own millions in legal bills. If that's not a loss, maybe Germany and Japan won World War 2?

    On the much smaller countersuit to recover $10M misspent by IH on Rossi initially, it was not a strong case and IH did lose that one. Hardly a win for Rossi though-- more legal costs he had to pay.

  • Jed. I don't want to argue.

    You cannot argue! You do not know a damn thing, because you have read nothing. You might as well argue with me about the plot of an untranslated Japanese novel.

    The end of October is approaching. Rossi indicates that he is coming to the end of his development. I will leave the Rossi trial in the past and give you benefit of my open mine in consideration of this last demo.

    You cannot give me the benefit of the doubt. You have no right to any opinion about an experiment you have not read and you know nothing about.

    Wasn't the Penon report written by Penon, issued by Penon?

    Penon is a certified idiot, and he is Rossi's labdog. Rossi "collected" the data -- meaning he made up most of it. He wrote the report and he uploaded it to the trial docket, so obviously he stands by it. This is, as I said, the one and only description of any experiment that Rossi has ever published, and it is garbage. If you are looking to evaluate Rossi's work according to what Rossi himself said, this is the only evidence you will find.


    That is why Axil refuses to read it. He prefers to predicate his word-salad on his own imaginary version of Rossi's work, rather than a version that Rossi himself provided.

  • Did You ever see the quarerly (as mentionned in the contract) Penon reports? What do these say? Why did IH not complain about them ???

    AFAIK, the quarterly reports had the same data as the final report.


    IH did complain about them! Loudly. Often. To Rossi, to me, and to several other people. Have you seen the data? Have you read the Penon report? Anyone with a half a brain can see the data is fake and the instruments and configuration are a farce. Who wouldn't complain about that?

  • 14 Monday, February 13, 2017

    9:07 a.m. - 5:18 p.m.

    15

    16

    17 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JOHN THOMAS VAUGHN

    (Corporate Representative of Industrial Heat, LLC)

    18

    19

    20 Taken on behalf of the Plaintiff before

    21 Elizabeth Cordoba, RMR, CRR, FPR, Notary Public in

    22 and for the State of Florida at Large, pursuant to

    23 Plaintiff's Notice of Taking Deposition in the above

    24 cause.



    20 Q. Okay. So you would agree with me that, as far

    21 as you know, Industrial Heat never approved and never said

    22 specifically, We agree that Penon is the ERV?

    23 A. I am unaware of communication where we

    24 specifically agreed with Penon being the ERV, but there

    25 may be such communication out there. I can't recall all

    Page 126

    Veritext Legal Solutions

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    1 of our e-mails and all of our documents.

    2 (Exhibit 17, IH99334 through 99336, was marked

    3 for Identification.)

    4 BY MR. CHAIKEN:

    5 Q. Let me show you what has been marked as

    6 Exhibit 17. Exhibit 17 has been Bates stamped IH99334

    7 through 99336. On the first page of this exhibit is a

    8 couple of e-mails. The first one is from JT Vaughn to CJ

    9 Case and Christopher Lomax. Those are attorneys for Jones

    10 Day; is that correct?

    11 A. That is correct. That is in May 2016.

    12 Q. Right. The e-mail on the bottom of the page is

    13 from Tom Darden, dated April 24, 2013 to Andrea Rossi and

    14 it cc's yourself and John Mazzarino. Do you see that?

    15 A. I see it.

    16 Q. And it talks about test process?

    17 A. Mm-hmm.

    18 Q. And on the second paragraph Tom Darden writes

    19 to Andrea Rossi and he says: "Here are my thoughts.

    20 First, as we indicated, we can accept Fabio Penon as the

    21 ERV instead of BV." Do you see that?

    22 A. I see that.

    23 Q. Were you aware -- have you seen this e-mail

    24 before?

    25 A. Clearly, I have seen it before. I haven't

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    1 scene it recently.

    2 Q. Does this change your mind as to whether or not

    3 a writing exists showing that Industrial Heat approved

    4 Fabio Penon as the ERV?

    5 A. That is what Tom is doing in this e-mail.

    6 Q. Right so you would agree with me then that the

    7 parties agreed that Fabio Penon was going to be the ERV,

    8 right?

    9 A. Based on this e-mail, which is from Tom to

    10 Andrea, it appears that he accepts Fabio Penon as the ERV

    11 instead of BV.



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ·1· · · · Q.· ·I'm only worried about the e-mail on the

    ·2 first page from you dated April 24th, 2013 to Dr. Rossi

    ·3 cc'ing J.T. Vaughn and John Mazzarino.· And the second

    ·4 full paragraph of your e-mail states, "Here are my

    ·5 thoughts.· First, as we indicated, we can accept Fabio

    ·6 Penon as the ERV, instead of BV."

    ·7· · · · A.· ·Um-hm.

    ·8· · · · Q.· ·Do you see that?

    ·9· · · · A.· ·Yes.

    10· · · · Q.· ·Did you, in fact, write that e-mail?

    11· · · · A.· ·I assume that I did, yes.

    12· · · · Q.· ·Is there any question in your mind that you

    13 accepted Fabio Penon as the ERV?

    14· · · · · · · · · MR. BELL:· Objection to form.

    15· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· That we accept him as

    16 the ERV in this test.· We either accepted him or we

    17 said we were willing to pay notwithstanding that.

    18 (BY MR. CHAIKEN)

    19· · · · Q.· ·Well, do you contest what you wrote saying

    20 specifically "we can accept"?

    21· · · · A.· ·No, I don't.· I don't contest that.

    22· · · · Q.· ·Did you ever change your mind after you

    23 wrote this e-mail?

    24· · · · · · · · · MR. BELL:· Objection to form.

    25· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· That we had accepted him

  • AFAIK, the quarterly reports had the same data as the final report.


    IH did complain about them! Loudly. Often. To Rossi, to me, and to several other people. Have you seen the data?

    But in public, Darden continued to praise Rossi all the way into the fall of 2015. You even signed up to speak at the New Energy Symposium. I think that perhaps in hindsight you are remembering any such IH complaints as being louder and more often than they actually were.


  • All of these 2013 emails are about the 2013 24-hour (well, 23.5-hour) VALIDATION Test ($10M payment) .. NOT the Guaranteed Performance test.

  • Gentlemen, Darden et.al. accepted Penon as ERV (no matter when) and honest, if you are member of a jury, would you consider it plausible if exactly the expert whose expertise is responsible for paying US$ 10,000,000, would not be accepted later?

  • Of course that is what you want to stay with Rends - you should know that the bait and switch evidence was also going to be presented from the original BV expectation and the same junk happened in Doral as well. That is why it ended up as a commercial power rental term sheet that fell apart as well after it became evident that all was farce. Deception abounded and you will continue to believe what you choose to believe.

    You guys can extend iceberg calving to the equator with your abilities to presume and stretch snippets of fact. A very nice talent by the way that only works on certain planets!

  • Penon is a certified idiot, and he is Rossi's labdog.

    Penon was agreed upon as the guy to write the unbiased ERV report ahead of time by both Rossi AND IH. Anyone on a jury is going to say that his 3rd party report has more weight than biased reports from either side. That's probably one of the driving forces behind IH accepting the settlement.


    But to your point, if the Penon report is garbage I suggest you open a thread here on the Penon report and let Engineer48 and others hack away at whatever objections there are. If your refutation of the Penon report is readable and compelling , it would make a great paper as an addition to your LENR-CANR.org library.

  • The only way out for a real business man would be to say "It was a business disagreement over a bad deal. So now I will sell my product with another partner."

    What a conman would do is say "Oh I dropped that product, I have a wonderful new thing that you must see, except you can't because its secret, but I can show you a photo".

    I don't understand why the fact of having a new product and wanting to present it is so much trouble for you. During the Doral test, Rossi had the opportunity to evaluate the possible defects in the technology he was experiencing at the time and have had time to develop new ideas. If he has created an object that, in his opinion, is more functional (or more stable, or safer ... only he can know in what it is actually better) for what reason he should bet everything to something that, in his opinion, is no more the optimal? Rossi never said that he would stop having an interest in the E-Cat models, he just said he would now present the newest of his creations and said that many potential customers showed interest about it.

  • On the main law suit brought by Rossi for $89M plus triple punitive damages, Rossi settled for nothing on the complaint and paid his own millions in legal bills. If that's not a loss, maybe Germany and Japan won World War 2?

    Rossi settled for obtaining the 1 MW plant and for the IP, which will allow him to sell every E-Cat model around the world. Only a biased mind as yours can call this a defeat.

  • AFAIK, the quarterly reports had the same data as the final report.


    IH did complain about them! Loudly. Often. To Rossi, to me, and to several other people.

    Jed, Darden can have really exposed all his bad mood as he sipped a coffee at the bar with you, but what we can see from outside is that he paid the first three reports and released interviews where he spoke well of Rossi even after receiving the first data. Had he found them so absurd he would not have done so, did not he?