Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • AR's probable LOGIC: Why should I work with critics, naysayer, skeptics, etc. when my technology is proven working, its a waste of time since no matter how you tell them how good the shit is, they wont believe it because they are non-believers.


    There is no money in it. I'd rather work with investors directly, it where the money is. More more more business and money.


    the 10.5m dollars this money was surely used for R&D.

    His "technology" is only "proven" to himself and a handful of followers. But OK, we will wait (and wait and wait) to see evidence of his creations being commercially sold--personally, I will not hold my breath, and the wager offer still stands. Additionally, it takes very large funds to commercialize (even a simple) product, so if Rossi has something, he will need to PROVE to investors to get funds to commercialize his invention (or conversely if his proclamations of (apparently secretly-funded) clandestine robotic mass-production facilities for the past years is true, you should be seeing something very soon....Good Luck!

  • We need a company like PredictIt.org to open up a contract. When Intrade was in business, they opened up a cold fusion contract that I collected on. It could be done on Betmoose with bitcoins, but no one was interested when I opened up a couple contracts there.

    I've never read a single post here, where any of the Brethren have invested a dime in Rossi or LENR, much less would take a wager--other than IH; they must not have as much blind faith as they proclaim (and are not as naive as they appear in not giving any money to Rossi).

  • I've never read a single post here, where any of the Brethren have invested a dime in Rossi or LENR, much less would take a wager--other than IH; they must not have as much blind faith as they proclaim (and are not as naive as they appear in not giving any money to Rossi).

    Well, I put my money where my mouth was on Cold Fusion before Rossi ever showed up. What I was looking at was 20:1 rhetoric but when dollars came to donuts I could only get 3:1 odds. Here on this forum I was offered 1:1 odds to bet for Rossi to win the lawsuit when I said I wanted 25:1. So you're looking at the same phenomena of people's "mouths writing alligator checks that their hummingbird ass can't pay for", on both sides.


    http://freerepublic.com/focus/…435697/posts?q=1&;page=39

  • Another item is that I can't figure out is that people keep saying the Ecat people won this case because of the settlement. The Ecat people lost this case badly. They sued for about $270 million and did not receive any money. Keep in mind they received the $10.5 million years ago. After paying expenses, wages, "R&D", etc those years, they must have spent some of that. Then add in the legal fees for this case which they had to pay out of pocket, and the amount of funds remaining dwindles even more. Just because the Ecat people say the case was about the IP (which the defendant might not have wanted anymore anyway) after the settlement does not change the fact that they received $0 out of the $270 million they sued for. This is a horrifically bad result for a civil case.

  • I've never read a single post here, where any of the Brethren have invested a dime in Rossi or LENR, much less would take a wager--other than IH; they must not have as much blind faith as they proclaim (and are not as naive as they appear in not giving any money to Rossi).


    You overlook the time and money that experimenters and replicators and those who donate or sponsor them have put into Ni/H experiments. They post here too.

  • When I was still half-believing Rossi, I invested in the Woodford Patient Capital Trust as being a relatively low risk way of sharing in potential profit from LENR.

    Admittedly, I got in when the fund was out of favour, but I'm a happy bunny now, with 19% return in 17 months.


    So the IH/Rossi shenanigans have had no identifiable adverse effect, although the upside could maybe have been even better had the 1MW plant been a real thing

  • Ah, Clean Planet. I do not think much of those people. I wrote an analysis of some of the data they showed in their presentation at MIT. I circulated it to them. In response, they threatened to sue me. That does not inspire confidence.


    Based on my analysis, I do not think they had any excess heat at the time of the MIT presentation. I do not know what they have now.

  • zorud : Nice try: All details classified. Not even the smallest details about the fuel are there ...

    Dream on...It seems you don't care at all about reality and stick to your crazy secret US Military LENR reactor fiction...smart people google and find out that the A1B nuclear reactor from Bechtel is a state of the art fission reactor that is loaded with uranium. Due to its improved efficiency the super carrier requires one fuel reload of enriched uranium only within its planned service time of 50 years. FYI I have copied some info from the German wiki which shows the details You are asking for and that are missing on the English wikipedia, but Google translate may help.


    Wie alle von der US Navy gegenwärtig verwendeten Reaktoren ist der A1B ein Druckwasserreaktor.[6] Laut WNAverfügt er über eine thermische Leistung von schätzungsweise 700 MW und wird mit hochangereichertem Uranbetrieben.[7]

  • @ sigmoidal,

    hi, and thank you for the answers.


    No doubt Rossi is the main user of JoNP, but my question was about ownership. Does he own the journal? If not, who (person or entity) is the owner?


    I'm not sure what you mean about 'the allusions made by Krivit' seven years ago.


    They are more evident considering also the first mail he sent to Vortex in March 2010 (1). This paper (2) could also help in clarifying his allusions.


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    Krivit obviously thinks Rossi is a fraud and crook.

    This is what he wrote in November 2016 (3): "He orchestrated the scheme, one step at a time, by convincing a few scientists who were all too willing to believe that he had developed a ground-breaking LENR". But, in my opinion, this story is very hard to believe. I find nearly impossible that a controversial Italian philosopher can convince so many researchers, most of them with a PhD in physics or other scientific disciplines, that he has been able to succeed, in a such sensational way, where hundreds of other scientists had already failed for nearly 20 years.


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    Personally, I am convinced that Rossi has never achieved any COP > 1 (LENR or otherwise), and that he owns no exclusive IP capable of producing LENR.

    So do I. Since the beginning.


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    I am, however, convinced that under certain conditions, LENR (as defined by some) does occur.

    Maybe, but only at some extremely low level of occurrence rate, a level comparable to the probability estimated by Focardi in the paper he wrote with Rossi in 2010 (4): "4.7x10-1059, so small to make the capture of a single proton by a Nickel nucleus impossible." In my opinion, such a low level prevents even to imagine any practical use for any possible LENR effect, for whichever purpose. But that's not my point.


    My point is that no conclusion can be drawn on the nature of the Ecat affair and on the role of the many protagonists of this saga, including the front man, until the questions about the JoNP raised by Krivit in 2010 remain unanswered.


    I really appreciated your thorough analyses of the exhibits released along the RvD litigation, that's the reason I'm asking your opinion on this specific point.


    (1) http://www.mail-archive.com/vo…@eskimo.com/msg38052.html

    (2) https://tpu.pure.elsevier.com/…icle-emissions-on-excitat

    (3) http://newenergytimes.com/v2/s…Investigation-Index.shtml

    (4) http://www.journal-of-nuclear-…s/Rossi-Focardi_paper.pdf

  • Based on my analysis, I do not think they had any excess heat at the time of the MIT presentation. I do not know what they have now.


    This is something that is especially noticeable to me, there are many players in the LENR field, which have become very noticeably quiet since 2012-2015, besides the Japanese (Tohuko University, Green Planet Inc., Nissan, Mitsubishi et al) Sweden (Elforsk, Vattenfall, Volvo et.al) as well US-Americans (National Instruments, Lockheed, NASA, etc.) and many more, so either they all have nothing, or they develop in secret on high tours in order to gain a competitive advantage, and they are all very glad that Rossi and Industrial Heat attracted the complete public attention, so that they can work inconspicuous.

  • Quote

    I agree in general with this statement. So, to add more than just constant verbal rehashing, lets' make things more interesting and put the money where the mouth is. As stated previously, I will take IHFB, or any of the Rossi Brethren up on on IHFB's wager (even at even odds, much better than his 10:1 bluster) put money (big bucks) in escrow, that nothing of Rossi's QuackX or other Rossi LENR device, will be in production, commercialized, and/or in a practical working environment within ANOTHER five years (of course, the definition of production and available and commercialized to be what "normal" people/businesses consider easily verifiable proof positive of such developments). After all, that is one of the main drones from the Brethren (even some so-called "engineers") who say that no one would believe ANY test results (I don't believe ANY of those UL, or CE certifications stamped on millions of products either, they must be sham organizations), only seeing Quack-X's in Home Depot will convince we non-believers--so we will wait to see some QuackX's available from Home-Depot or any other established wholesaler or retailer (incidentally, JM Products or similar will NOT be considered "established", and certified sales records will be required (as is customarily done in licensing contracts )). But then, I highly doubt IHFB or any Brethren will execute that bet, despite IHFB's and others' blustering. It's also rather ironic that the Brethren consider IH some evil conspiracy, when they gave Rossi $10M and all latitude he needed to definitively prove himself, and gain another $89M, and still have licensing rights for a good portion of the globe, thereby becoming famous, rich, a Nobel Prize winner, savior of humanity, but yet Rossi turns it down for simple refusal to allow independent test verification (ok-"re-verification" for the Rossi Brethren).. PS. how many of the Brethren have "invested" funds in past or future Rossi QuackX's or E-Dogs etc. Place your bets, any proceeds you win can be invested in Rossi, Quackx's, etc, so it's a good cause!


    Me too. As soon as someone provides a credible method to bet. 10:1? Hey, any time. You gotta love those odds. I wish Siffer would bet. He may actually have some money.

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    We need a company like PredictIt.org to open up a contract. When Intrade was in business, they opened up a cold fusion contract that I collected on. It could be done on Betmoose with bitcoins, but no one was interested when I opened up a couple contracts there.


    The reason nobody took your Betmoose bet was, if I remember right, that it was vague and unclear and it would have been able for you to weasel out a dozen different ways. I'll even try to figure out bitcoins (ugh!) if you structure a decent bet on betmoose. If you draft it here (maybe in a new string) maybe our visiting legal eagles can help flesh it out.


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    Well, I put my money where my mouth was on Cold Fusion before Rossi ever showed up. What I was looking at was 20:1 rhetoric but when dollars came to donuts I could only get 3:1 odds. Here on this forum I was offered 1:1 odds to bet for Rossi to win the lawsuit when I said I wanted 25:1. So you're looking at the same phenomena of people's "mouths writing alligator checks that their hummingbird ass can't pay for", on both sides.


    Bets against Rossi at long odds aren't worth the trouble. If you really believe in the guy, bet at even odds.

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    So the IH/Rossi shenanigans have had no identifiable adverse effect, although the upside could maybe have been even better had the 1MW plant been a real thing


    And how much higher is the Dow in the same period? It went from around 16.1K in early 2016 to around 21.6 at the moment... +33.6% appx.

  • Ascoli65

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    No doubt Rossi is the main user of JoNP, but my question was about ownership. Does he own the journal? If not, who (person or entity) is the owner?


    It's not a "journal". It's a misnamed blog which Rossi has perpetrated at least since 2011. He certainly controls it and one could assume he owns the domain as well.


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    This is something that is especially noticeable to me, there are many players in the LENR field, which have become very noticeably quiet since 2012-2015, besides the Japanese (Tohuko University, Green Planet Inc., Nissan, Mitsubishi et al) Sweden (Elforsk, Vattenfall, Volvo et.al) as well US-Americans (National Instruments, Lockheed, NASA, etc.) and many more, so either they all have nothing, or they develop in secret on high tours in order to gain a competitive advantage, and they are all very glad that Rossi and Industrial Heat attracted the complete public attention, so that they can work inconspicuous.


    You can bet they are quiet because they found there was nothing to Ni-H fusion when they checked. And they rapidly understood that Rossi was a fraud and the others could not prove that they could make high power. If they could, they would attract billions in investments from investors such as Bezos and Musk who are not notorious for being quiet about their ventures.

  • We need a company like PredictIt.org to open up a contract. When Intrade was in business, they opened up a cold fusion contract that I collected on. It could be done on Betmoose with bitcoins, but no one was interested when I opened up a couple contracts there.


    Betmoose is untrustworthy because it is centralized. Either Augur or Gnosis will be the go-to prediction market of the future. Augur is closest, and should be out of beta this year. They are both decentralized platforms, and so, your bets are guaranteed, and nobody will run away with your funds (they are smart-contract based, which are censorship-resistant, and impossible to game).

  • Just because the Ecat people say the case was about the IP (which the defendant might not have wanted anymore anyway) after the settlement does not change the fact that they received $0 out of the $270 million they sued for. This is a horrifically bad result for a civil case.


    It was Woodford who said it was all about the control of the IP. Apparently, the Ecat "people" agreed. In both cases, it shows that there was a general awareness that the technology works.

  • And how much higher is the Dow in the same period? It went from around 16.1K in early 2016 to around 21.6 at the moment... +33.6% appx.


    And how much higher is Bitcoin in the same period? It went from around 400 in early 2016 to around 2700 at the moment... +675% appx.


    And how much higher is Ethereum in the same period? It went from around 2 in early 2016 to around 220 at the moment... +11,000% appx.


    Guess y'all should have been betting on crypto instead. ;)


  • Nonsense, IHFB. You think Neil Woodford and his crew think Rossi's ecat works? Why in the world would they think such a dumb thing?


    Because they themselves said it. They spent years doing due diligence on it, according to their spokesperson. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually cut ties with IH over their screw up.