Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • Rossi has not harassed anyone. He has been unfailingly polite. The harassment has come from the ad hominem comments about Rossi on this site, including those from members of IH.


    That is not true. On occasions when he has been caught mis-measuring his devices, or when (properly) those observing tests have asked for additional evidence he has become very angry and impolite.

  • IH Fanboy wrote :

    My quataloos are all on: all claims withdrawn with prejudice, with no more money changing hands (tip of the hat to our distinguished lawyers who joined us recently and opined this as well), and all parties returned to their respective positions prior to entering any agreements. In other words, my bet is that IH relinquishes any and all licenses to Leonardo's IP and the license agreement as well--gone.


    I agree.


    1) If IH don't believe Rossi's tech works, it's easy for them to relinquish the IP


    2) but if they do, it's more difficult to understand the reason.

    And they probably do, as T. Darden got several times high COP with it.

    And if IH believes it works, It will be a heartbreaker to relinquish the IP !

    Just think of all the trillions of $ ! So why would Darden be forced to settle in such a case :

    - because Rossi had good proofs the one year test was the GPT for Darden ?

    - and because Darden / IH would not be in a position to pay several hundreds of millions should he lose the case ? But it's easy to bankrupt IH, unless Darden had lots of his personal money at risk...

    FM

  • That is not true. On occasions when he has been caught mis-measuring his devices, or when (properly) those observing tests have asked for additional evidence he has become very angry and impolite.

    THHuxleynew ,


    All hearsay..and one cannot compare Rossi getting a tat emotional to @Dewey Weaver's, a member of the IH team i mind you, tirades or that from guys like Krivit, MY, etc..


    Cheers,


    JB

  • The harassment has come from the ad hominem comments about Rossi on this site, including those from members of IH.


    Adrian,


    "Ad Hominem" is defined as: " an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself".


    If you have read the 326 court documents, you would see that Rossi's character, or lack of actually, is as much a part of the counter-suit, as the substance. The substance being whether or not Doral produced 1MW, at COP 50, and the IP works, while his character was on trial due the fake company/product/engineer, along with the spoliation of equipment, data, and emails.


    So by attacking Rossi's character, we are also attacking the "substance of the argument itself", as the two are intertwined, therefore ad hominem does not accurately describe our arguments here against him.

  • Adrian,


    That seems to be the meme of the Rossi supporters following the settlement: "IH supporters are depressed". Like we were handed a defeat. IMO, a couple seemed upset at first, because he did not get his due, but overall we IH..ers are getting back to other LENR issues at hand.


    If anything, it seems you Rossites are hell bent on reshaping the narrative away from Rossi, and his criminal actions, and onto IH and their poor decision making. Can't blame you, as following a working class hero who beat "da man", is a lot easier than following a crook. It has been fun to watch.


    And anyways, why should we be depressed, other than Rossi not getting hammered? From what I have read, it sounds like Rossi choked the first day of court after hearing what he would have to answer to under oath, asked his new lawyer to talk with JD and make a deal. The last court document says all parties pay their own costs. That does not sound like some resounding victory for Rossi?

  • The gloom and disappointment here is as palpable as the elation is on ECW. Cheer up 'ol LENR forum members, it is mere creative destruction rolling forth in all of its cultish glory. The cult of disruption threatens the status quo Murrays & Maryyugos. IH and Rossi were both looking for extrication from each other and they likely got it, with skeptopath casualties the result.


    My quataloos are all on: all claims withdrawn with prejudice, with no more money changing hands (tip of the hat to our distinguished lawyers who joined us recently and opined this as well), and all parties returned to their respective positions prior to entering any agreements. In other words, my bet is that IH relinquishes any and all licenses to Leonardo's IP and the license agreement as well--gone. After all, IH has only bad-mouthed Rossi and his invention for well over a year now. So how is IH a winner? They get to move on.


    OK, I'll accept this as a Bold Prediction, and since everyone got 1 millyun Quatloos subsequent to the NOTICE OF ORDER (except Dewey), you're down for a millyun Q, IHFB!


    But I am ready and willing to make a Bold Prediction counter wager (of 1 millyun Quatloos) that IH retains: 1) the '1 MW' plant (currently in Doral); and 2) the license to Rossi's E-Cat IP in North America (which they paid Rossi 11.5 millyun REAL dollars).


    There are several reasons why I personally think it's highly unlikely that Rossi 'clawed back the IP license and 'hardware', but talk is cheap, whereas Quatloos...


    In addition, I admit that if it is shown that Rossi has his IP license and hardware back with no indication of substantial payment from Rossi to IH, this indicates that Rossi had a strong hand in the negotiations and IH was weak.


    On the other hand, if it is shown that Rossi dropped the lawsuit without the IP license or hardware, then it shows that Rossi likely gave up on the $89M in order to not continue the trial and that IH had the upper hand.


    BTW, I concede that if the latter is true that IH retains IP and hardware, it is less of a concession by Rossi than if IH surrendered all IP license rights and hardware. This is because IH already paid for the IP license and hardware. (Unless you're a super Rossi fanboy and try to read the contract such that failure to pay for the 1 year GPT, even if performance was not shown, nullifies the contract in it's entirety, including the IP and/or hardware).


    So there it is, two 'dueling' Bold Predictions!


    Hopefully, we'll be able to find out one way or another (though it's possible that we never do).


    And, I admit to being a bit sad, because I was looking forward to some definitive answers (and of course I was pretty sure those answers would be consistent with my evaluation of the evidence). So continued uncertainty understandably gives Rossi supporters cause for celebration.


    But if you think about that a little bit, it says something about Rossi's success: he's shown himself to be the master of 'Surfing Plausible Deniability to Infinity and Beyond'.


    It seems like more ambiguity is a bit of a pyrrhic victory for the E-Cat World Club, but maybe they have to take whatever they can get.

  • it seems you Rossites are hell bent on reshaping the narrative away from Rossi, and his criminal actions, and onto IH and their poor decision making.

    Criminal actions of Rossi ?

    It was documented here that he was cleared by all the charges ! Rossi was acquitted because the fact did not exist. In practice the Judge has seen that the crimes for which he was prosecuted had never existed. All that was documented here.

    What about the numerous actions done by Darden and Cherokee ?

    Sifferkoll has published a long list, and many of those actions could be called crimes on my opinion.

  • In addition, I admit that if it is shown that Rossi has his IP license and hardware back with no indication of substantial payment from Rossi to IH, this indicates that Rossi had a strong hand in the negotiations and IH was weak.

    Interesting .

    Then tell us what you will do if your bold predictions are false ?

    What if you discover that in fact Rossi had a strong hand and IH weak ?

  • I don't actually understand how your comment here answers mine, or shows you understand probability, since VCs provide funding when there is high risk (and low probability of returns) however they do this at odds that make returns if they happen very lucrative. The whole point of VC investments is that they are high risk (high noise), and therefore not all parameters are defined.

    Nobody denies the fact that certain investments involve a certain amount of risk. But "risk" and "certainty" are two very different concepts. IH proposed a risky investment at a time when they had already made several tests on the product for which they were seeking for investments. Then they said (in the end) that the tested reactors never worked. If things really went in this way, then IH lied to investors, collecting money for an object that clearly did not work. But I think that things went conversely: maybe IH collected money for an object that they knew worked well, and only after it became useful they say it never worked. And this attitude has nothing to do with the concept of risk.

  • That is not true. On occasions when he has been caught mis-measuring his devices, or when (properly) those observing tests have asked for additional evidence he has become very angry and impolite.

    And how do you know that? Because this is what Jed and Dewey have said? Their interpretation of events never shines for objectivity .....

  • From what I have read, it sounds like Rossi choked the first day of court after hearing what he would have to answer to under oath, asked his new lawyer to talk with JD and make a deal.

    During the long phase that preceded the trial, each lawyer showed his own evidence to the other's party and, consequently, his own strategy. I don't think Rossi was surprised when he heard the introductory speech from Darden's lawyer. Moreover, a settlement is not a sudden thing, it is not decided in such a few minutes. The two parties had certainly already discussed the possibility of doing it in the days before.

  • And how do you know that? Because this is what Jed and Dewey have said?

    Jed, Dewey, Jim Carr and everyone else from NASA, and everyone else I know who worked with Rossi said he flies off at the handle whenever someone shows him a mistake or proves that he is lying.


    How would you know otherwise? Have you worked with him? What contrary source of information do you have? For that matter, what do you know about him other than hearsay and Rossisays?

  • Criminal actions of Rossi ?

    It was documented here that he was cleared by all the charges ! Rossi was acquitted because the fact did not exist. In practice the Judge has seen that the crimes for which he was prosecuted had never existed. All that was documented here.

    What about the numerous actions done by Darden and Cherokee ?

    Sifferkoll has published a long list, and many of those actions could be called crimes on my opinion.


    Ele,


    When you say "he was cleared by all the charges", I assume you are talking about the IH suit. First let me make a retraction; since the counter-suit was civil, and not criminal, I will cut him a break and change "criminal" to "fraudulent" when referring to him. I am not sure after that what you are implying. A settlement is not a judgement of guilt or innocence, it is just a settlement.


    In coming to an educated opinion as to guilt or innocence though, thankfully all the information we need to judge is contained in the 326 court documents. Fortunately for those that chose to follow the Rossi story, believe in him going forward, or consider investing in his QuarkX in the years to come, they will always be available in the public record for them to study.


    And those documents are clear, unambiguous, and damning towards Rossi. He was dishonest and deceitful...not only to IH, but to his followers on JONP, his partner HF, and probably to his own lawyers. No doubt who the man is after reading, and serves as a warning for those tempted. No one from here on out, can blame ignorance if they dare invest their money, or hope with Andrea Rossi, and find later they were fooled, or ripped off like those before.

  • Shane D. : At least you agree on the "we"! What will be the next try? Take over the forum completely?


    I did nowhere see "IH related posts" that seem to support LENR...


    Wytennbach,


    Well, I meant the other "we",s. :) But a little before your post, I had gotten back to other LENR matters.


    Look, Wytenn...I respect you and the other very bright, intelligent LENR advocates. Even the few equally bright sKeps here like THH, KS, even Sherlock. In comparison I am a nobody. I try and contribute in my little way to make a difference. When I first got interested, I could readily see the field needed some fresh insights, and there are occasions when the best insights come from interested, non scientific, lay people (amateurs) like me.


    Humbly submitted.

  • OK, I'll accept this as a Bold Prediction, and since everyone got 1 millyun Quatloos subsequent to the NOTICE OF ORDER (except Dewey), you're down for a millyun Q, IHFB!


    But I am ready and willing to make a Bold Prediction counter wager (of 1 millyun Quatloos) that IH retains: 1) the '1 MW' plant (currently in Doral); and 2) the license to Rossi's E-Cat IP in North America (which they paid Rossi 11.5 millyun REAL dollars).


    . . .



    That is a bold prediction and merited my upvote. The intriguing thing Sig, is that this is an all-around win-win for IH and Rossi. I just don't get why you and other IH supporters feel so down.


    Look at it this way:


    If IH was able to hang on to the license as you predict, then IH clearly believes there is value in Rossi's invention, and were not willing to let it go. That bodes well for IH, Rossi, LENR+, and the world for obvious reasons.


    Otherwise, if IH came to the conclusion that they were willing to part with the license, as I predict, then that bodes well for IH, Rossi, LENR+, and the world, because IH gets to move on, and so does Rossi, both in their respective directions in an attempt to bring LENR+ to the world.


    See, win/win. So cheer up!


    Like I observed before, the only losers in this development are Dewey (for obvious reasons), Maryyugo (for obvious reasons), Krivit (for obvious reasons), and Fred Z. (whatever his name is, for obvious reasons).


    Maryyugo attempted to shift the "winner" talk to the lawyers, as if they were the only winners. But I can assure you, lawyers at that level will have paying work regardless, and would have filled their time with other work. Taking on this case and working it to settlement is no big win for the lawyers. It's their job. And they will make money regardless of whether they choose to work on Rossi/IH or some other matter that piques their interest.


  • Wow, that was humble (too much so in my opinion), given that I usually value your skeptical insights more so than many other skeps here. What is it with the IH supporters these days? It's as if a large pall has descended over all of you. ;)