Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

Quote from THHuxleynew

JB - that question is moot since Rossi was the only one claiming a serious product.

That is the whole point!

THHuxleynew,

That is a false statement. I find that for example these two companies are making claims as well;

1. http://brillouinenergy.com/science/lenr-cecr/

2. http://brilliantlightpower.com/

Cheers,

JB

Quote from interested observer

Yes, I know the definition of an entrepreneur and by that definition, the scam artists taking money for LENR "products" are entrepreneurs. However, there is a distinction between legitimate entrepreneurship and scamming people and I think most LENR companies have crossed that line.

interested observer,

You might think so, but there is not a lot of proof to substantiate your thinking.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from IH Fanboy

That is a bold prediction and merited my upvote. The intriguing thing Sig, is that this is an all-around win-win for IH and Rossi. I just don't get why you and other IH supporters feel so down.

Look at it this way:

If IH was able to hang on to the license as you predict, then IH clearly believes there is value in Rossi's invention, and were not willing to let it go. That bodes well for IH, Rossi, LENR+, and the world for obvious reasons.

...

See, win/win. So cheer up!

I agree with you that it was a 'win/win' for IH and Rossi given their respective risk/reward interests at trial commencement. However, I have no beneficial interest in either IH nor Rossi.

I believe the settlement outcome was win/win/lose for IH/Rossi/Peanut Gallery. And just to be clear, I am (and presumably you and everyone else here, except Dewey, are) proud members of the peanut gallery.

We in the Peanut Gallery were winning for a long time (almost a year), because we got real cold hard evidence (actual emails, handwritten notes, sworn depositions, etc.) at zero cost, except postage (thanks Eric!) and handling (all our time analyzing and pontificating).

You know my strong belief: Rossi is the Master of Surfing Plausible Deniability to Infinity and Beyond. As stated many times, I believe the evidence strongly demonstrates that he is a bright, delusional con man with extraordinary PR skills, who successfully defrauds people for fame and fortune (and the E-Cat is his crowning fraudulent masterpiece, among many other lesser works in his extensive portfolio).

But IH was bringing a wave of evidence that even the Master Surfer could not handle. We were at the brink of having disclosure that would end this absurd theater.

And then, abruptly, it passed (because it was a win/win for IH and Rossi).

And we in the Peanut Gallery just had that free fountain of cold hard evidence flowing onto the Docket turned off. Now it's not like we had any 'rights' to this free flowing fountain, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a loss.

We lost access to new evidence. We are losers. Regarding this case, I am glum. (I'll get over it)

And since you 'just want to know the truth', I would think that you would be a bit sad as well. Because regarding this case, the velocity of quality evidence just hit the skids (watch out for that hot air bag deploying from Rossi's surf-board steering wheel).

Instead, access to the fountain of new cold hard facts just got traded in for a time-extended pass to ride fact-freely on Rossi's magical plausible deniability surf board (to infinity and beyond).

E-Cat world is rejoicing, because their very existence and raison-d'etre depends on Rossi's E-Cat, by name and brand, specifically. And so they are rejoicing because of all these fact-free, time-extended passes just issued via settlement.

Some of us Peanuts are prone to get sea sick from sock puppet induced waves, and for us the exchange was a bad deal.

But hey, if you want an extra pass, you can have mine. For free.

Surf's up!

On the bright side, we have all that evidence on the docket (for free). And as a result, it is now a lot less likely that Rossi can successfully scam for big money with mere plausible deniability.

WCG said: "You might think so, but there is not a lot of proof to substantiate your thinking."

Absolutely correct. That is why I said "I think most LENR companies have crossed the line" rather than "they have crossed the line."

But it is interesting that those who look positively on these enterprises complain about how much proof there is for a skeptical position when there is far less evidence for the positive view. Hey, but if believing in this stuff makes you feel good about the world, knock yourself out.

Quote from we_cat_global

THHuxleynew,

That is a false statement. I find that for example these two companies are making claims as well;

1. http://brillouinenergy.com/science/lenr-cecr/

2. http://brilliantlightpower.com/

Cheers,

JB

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JB - my statement was entirely true. neither of those companies are making serious product claims. If they were they would attract the type of interest that Rossi did.

Specifically, they both have results from experiments that indicate possible excess power beyond chemical - if you believe assumptions. Neither of them claim working product with clear (100s of W and X2 or more COP in steady-state measurement) calorimetry. Nor anything like that.

However.. if you view these claims and those of Rossi as being comparable that perhaps explains why you are confused in this area

Quote from THHuxleynew

JB - my statement was entirely true. neither of those companies are making serious product claims. If they were they would attract the type of interest that Rossi did.

Specifically, they both have results from experiments that indicate possible excess power beyond chemical - if you believe assumptions. Neither of them claim working product with clear (100s of W and X2 or more COP in steady-state measurement) calorimetry. Nor anything like that.

However.. if you view these claims and those of Rossi as being comparable that perhaps explains why you are confused in this area

THHuxleynew,

If i am confused you are delusional.

What these two companies are doing is exactly the same as what Rossi does. How they are doing it is different perhaps. Have you even compared the websites? Rossi is an open book compared to these firms. That is how we started this discussion.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from we_cat_global

That is a false statement. I find that for example these two companies are making claims as well;

1. http://brillouinenergy.com/science/lenr-cecr/

2. http://brilliantlightpower.com/

Brilliant Light Power says their reaction is not cold fusion. They don't like cold fusion. AFAIK they don't believe it exists.

I cannot make head or tail of their claims, so I do not know if what they have resembles cold fusion.

Quote from we_cat_global

THHuxleynew,

If i am confused you are delusional.

What these two companies are doing is exactly the same as what Rossi does. How they are doing it is different perhaps. Have you even compared the websites? Rossi is an open book compared to these firms. That is how we started this discussion.

Cheers,

JB

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OK, so tell me what claim there is for a test with clear calorimetry showing convincing results, as in my last e-mail? You are asserting that these companies make comparable claims, so you can presumably be precise. Which test is (taking its claims at face value) as convincing as Rossis tests (again taken at face value)?

Quote from THHuxleynew

OK, so tell me what claim there is for a test with clear calorimetry showing convincing results, as in my last e-mail? You are asserting that these companies make comparable claims, so you can presumably be precise. Which test is (taking its claims at face value) as convincing as Rossis tests (again taken at face value)?

THHuxleynew,

I am not sure what you claim these two companies claim, but i claim that they claim they have a product or service, which they claim is based on a new technology from which i claim it is "at face value" a similar technology that Rossi claims to have.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from we_cat_global

THHuxleynew,

I am not sure what you claim these two companies claim, but i claim that they claim they have a product or service, which they claim is based on a new technology from which i claim it is "at face value" a similar technology that Rossi claims to have.

Cheers,

JB

Display More

JB - you are USCWAP here.

Be specific - what product or service do they claim to sell? Or demonstrate?

Quote from THHuxleynew

JB - you are USCWAP here.

Be specific - what product or service do they claim to sell? Or demonstrate?

THHuxleynew,

No, you be specific. Your comma humping is quite tiresome. Why bury this whole thread in useless posts?

My point is that Rossi is relative open compared to similar efforts and now we are bitching if BLP and BE are similar or not. Even if these companies are not similar, it still does not make Rossi more secretive. What is your point?

But anyway, what is the significant difference between Rossi and the aforementioned parties? And please stop the internet acronyms. You are to old for that.

Cheers,

JB

JB

I know you are not quite as incapable of reading as you now seem. You well know the issue here is whether any similar efforts (in terms of claims) exist.

My point, which you call comma humping and I think frankly you are being either purposefully obtuse or gratuitously impolite is that no similar efforts exist. And that it is not secrecy from Rossi that is poisonous. It is secrecy combined with constant PR and extravagant claims based on deceit.

1. I ask you to ante up with these efforts.
2. You mention BLP and Brillouin.
3. I ask you to state where these companies make product claims of a similar eye-watering magnitude to rossi - e.g they have bone fide demos of obviously industrially useful LENR
4. You refuse to do this, and tell me it is my job to do that.

Of course I can't do it! They have no demos anything like as convincing as Rossis (if you believe what Rossi says). But if what you say is correct these demos exist and you can do it. I'm all for free speech but when post clearly unsubstantiated statements here, and go on doing it, I'll go on calling you.

I agree, it is boring

....

Quote from THHuxleynew

JB

I know you are not quite as incapable of reading as you now seem. You well know the issue here is whether any similar efforts (in terms of claims) exist.

My point, which you call comma humping and I think frankly you are being either purposefully obtuse or gratuitously impolite is that no similar efforts exist. And that it is not secrecy from Rossi that is poisonous. It is secrecy combined with constant PR and extravagant claims based on deceit.

1. I ask you to ante up with these efforts.
2. You mention BLP and Brillouin.
3. I ask you to state where these companies make product claims of a similar eye-watering magnitude to rossi - e.g they have bone fide demos of obviously industrially useful LENR
4. You refuse to do this, and tell me it is my job to do that.

Of course I can't do it! They have no demos anything like as convincing as Rossis (if you believe what Rossi says). But if what you say is correct these demos exist and you can do it. I'm all for free speech but when post clearly unsubstantiated statements here, and go on doing it, I'll go on calling you.

I agree, it is boring

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THHuxleynew,

It must be my lack of understanding of the English language. I am sorry, I lost you, but perhaps this will make us find one another again;

Rossi (Leonardo) | E-Cat | Presentation by Rossi

BE | WET |Presentation by Godes

BLP | SUNCELL | Presentation

All three companies support their technology with scientific papers, promise same tricks, different ponies. The fact that they do not claim the exact same "eye-watering" results does not make them completely different. Leonardo, BE and BLP are the Ferrari, Tesla and GM of the LENR industry.

How are these firms not similar?

Cheers,

JB

If your judgement is that coarse "scientific papers" "tricks" there is no difference.

Is that really how you judge things?

Rossi makes demos of small easily manufacturable devices that he claims output large amounts of nuclear power continuously. he claims to measure this - in the demo - using easy to understand calorimetry.

If his claims are correct then we have a new world. No ifs and buts. That is why Rossi created such a stir.

None of the others make such concrete claims. They all promise pie in the sky maybe if their scientific results are correct and scale up they way they expect. The results are unclear.

Admittedly, to distinguish these others from Rossi you actually have to read what they say. Is that not fair? It often seems to me that you reckon the right way to judge things here is NOT to read what anyone says and come out with some prejudice.

Quote from THHuxleynew

If your judgement is that coarse "scientific papers" "tricks" there is no difference.

Is that really how you judge things?

Rossi makes demos of small easily manufacturable devices that he claims output large amounts of nuclear power continuously. he claims to measure this - in the demo - using easy to understand calorimetry.

If his claims are correct then we have a new world. No ifs and buts. That is why Rossi created such a stir.

None of the others make such concrete claims. They all promise pie in the sky maybe if their scientific results are correct and scale up they way they expect. The results are unclear.

Admittedly, to distinguish these others from Rossi you actually have to read what they say. Is that not fair? It often seems to me that you reckon the right way to judge things here is NOT to read what anyone says and come out with some prejudice.

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THHuxleynew,

You are right. I do not read everything and you are most probably far better informed than i am. The decision to post, despite not having done my homework as thoroughly as others is mostly based on an urge to react to the in my opinion dishonest posts, unjust processing of (dishonest) information and thus the unjust further trajectory of the discussion.

I do not get in the mix in technology discussions and or complex legal discussions. What i do find interesting in LENR land in general and in Rossi in particular is that no matter how smart you are, at this moment in time it is impossible to correctly predict where this marvelous story (or even just the coming chapter) will take us.

The court case was a good example. Most smart cookies are in the skeptics camp and it was very clear to all of them (and i know i am generalizing) that Rossi would be slaughtered. Endless posts, endless comma humping and praising each other on how smart the skeptics all are, but nobody recognized the power of a street fighter like Rossi.

And that is exactly what makes this story so unique. All theorists fail to analyze the situation correctly. Perhaps because they dismiss the unlikeliest of unlikely scenario's?

I believe that one does not always have to know every single detail to form an opinion. Even stronger, i believe that too much information can blur the things that are important to understand and thus lead to a wrong conclusion. I have a background as a trader and i am a big fan of Nassim Taleb. In "Fooled by randomness" he describes the streetsmart trader and compares him to the ultra smart guys from LTCM. I like that example and have always seen Rossi as a streetsmart inventor. We all know what happened with LTCM.

Back to the topic at hand. I do not think i need to know everything about BE / BLP to be able to make a comparison to Rossi. If you think that is outrageous then please let me know how different they are.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from we_cat_global

All three companies support their technology with scientific papers, promise same tricks, different ponies.

Quote from we_cat_global

You are right. I do read not everything and you are most probably far better informed than i am. The decision to post, despite not having done my homework as thoroughly as others is mostly based on an urge to react to the in my opinion dishonest posts, unjust processing of (dishonest) information and thus the unjust further trajectory of the discussion.

@WCG: What is honest about your posts? If you see tricks - we can't see - , then please tell us! We are eager to learn...