Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

Quote from maryyugo

Potential billionaire investors might not be very interested in scientific literature until they had seen a convincing demonstration -- something to light lights or heating up the room.

First, they cannot be interested in the scientific literature because they do not know it exists. As I said, the people I have spoken with believe the effect was never replicated and no papers were ever published.

Second, no potential billionaire would wait for the "convincing demonstration" you describe, because that would rule out becoming a billionaire. By the time it reaches that stage the work would be done and the patents filed (if not granted). You have to invest in technology before it becomes obvious that it is a goldmine. Especially when it useful for only one purpose (energy in this case) without many variations. There was room for different kinds of automobiles in 1908 which is why both Ford and GM survived, but there will probably not be many optimum ways to produce energy from cold fusion.

What you describe would be like saying in 1975: "no one will write software for these new microcomputers until it is demonstrated that they can run BASIC and other software." There were, in fact, minicomputer company managers at places like Data General who said things like that. (They said that to me.) In 1975 Bill Gates was busy writing BASIC and other software. That's why he became a billionaire and Data General went out of business.

To take another example, you might be saying: "There is no point to manufacturing an electric car until Tesla proves there is a market for a million units a year." By that time it will be too late. Or like a Ford exec saying: "we can hold back making self-driving cars until Toyota proves it can be done and proves there is a market." No, you can't, because they will be way ahead of you. Plus, if self-driving cars are a hit, Toyota will put you out of business.

Quote from maryyugo

You can count on one hand the "novel claims" I rejected and got motivated to argue about on the internet in the past six years. They were Sniffex, Steorn, Defkalion and Rossi. I was right about ALL FOUR. A 100% record.

You have rejected cold fusion. That's a 100% wrong record. You are wrong about the heat, the tritium, the helium and every other aspect of it that you have discussed.

Did you predict near term self-driving cars, or that a computer would win at go, or computer translation? I did. I don' tknow how old you are, but in 1975 did you predict that microcomputers would put minicomputers out of business? I did.

Have you ever had the guts and foresight to predict that a far-fetched claim might be true? As far as I can see, when people such as Robert Park and you find something unexpected, you always predict failure. You ignore the facts when you turn out to be wrong as in the case of cold fusion, and you claim 100% success. You always bet black on roulette wheel with 80% black slots, and then consider yourself an oracle. It is a cheap trick.

" I rejected and got motivated to argue about"

Thanks for your sustain, Mary.

You are so predictable.

Bigpharma and their lockstep followers comes to mind

not exclusive to America

author of

Deadly Medicines and Organised Crime: How Big Pharma has Corrupted Healthcare.

Quote from Shane D.

Thx IHFB,

I stopped fence sitting when my reading of the documents made it clear JMP was Rossi. That Rossi was the customer he was telling us about on his JONP before, during and after the year long test.

Remember when he was asked many times on JONP if we could see pictures, or have a selected individual like Frank visit the "factory", and he would say "I will ask the customer, it is up to him"...well he was talking about himself! Lying to us like it was someone else's decision to make. Then, his comments during the test that the customer was happy with the performance of the 1MW...that was him again talking about himself! Very insulting the way he treated us, and shows he has no respect, or loyalty to those that respect and are loyal to him.

You also understood the implications were JMP to turn out fake, and run by Rossi, having said many times you would consider it a fatal blow to Rossi...or something like that. Well, when it became clear that was the case, you just ignored it and continued on in his defense.

The last straw for me though, was the mezzazine heat exchanger. Reading his deposition where he describes it, was a window into the mind of a pathological liar. So, sorry I am not on the fence anymore like the good old times. Although Rossi himself could get me right back up there, were he to allow his tech to be tested by a truly independent, and credible third party. However, not having allowed that in 10 years, I do not see it happening ever.

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Shane D.

One of your best comments. I was not anti Rossi. Just pro LENR. I just can not stand being deceived. I mean I can not. I am still pizzed at IH for not following up on one of their representatives saying that they would fix the problem. That Doctore fellow is a scoundrel and he should retire from this LENR world as he has done enough damage.

This is almost as bad. But the one thing I really do not get all the people I have been talking to here for years continuing believing a deceiver. He needs to go and shut up.

How obvious does it need to be gosh... Some of the believers need to understand he is just hurting us now.

Quote from maryyugo

NO! Papp *said* he used noble gases in a proprietary mixture to produce months and months of high power without refueling. He never showed anything like that. He did have an engine that ran for short periods when plugged into an AC socket. I think I can do that too. If you believe Papp's tale, you might as well line up to buy my pink invisible flying unicorns (PIFU) -- I am taking deposits of $10,000 now.

You mean we have the opportunity to put you away for fraud for only 10 bigones. that is a bargain if the warden keeps you off the internet. Or is this a bait and switch.

Eric Walker,

Is Rends a polite troll?

Cheers,

JB

Quote from Eric Walker

The Lugano test no doubt was relevant to keeping IH engaged. My assumption is that the positive results encouraged IH to stick with Rossi despite the misbehavior.

This is just your personal assumption and not a fact.

If Tom Darden had any problem with that test why he has not done some question directly to the Authors ?

If the test was important for IH why there was not an expert ( or more then one ) following the test?

If they had any problem why they had copied (without permission) large parts of the report (also the Ferrara one) and even figures to make patents ?

Is notable that the test is criticized only in blogs and forums mainly by anonymous people.

And Also Lugano now is quite an old test IH had plenty of time to not stick with Rossi anymore.

The Doral test was real. Darden himself have taken visitors and potential investors to the plant.

The had no problem in that phase. The had problems only after.

Quote from Rends

Most damaging for the LENR development is the unprofessional approach of Darden et.al. who thought they could play as technology developers and financial investors at the same time, without even having the minimum requirements of necessary technical know-how. what they actually have done was try and error. J.T. Vaughn's testimonies reveal such a high degree of organizational and, above all, technical inability, that I claim them 100% responsible for the fact, that we today still not have clarity about the functionality of Rossi's technology. But above all, Thomas Darden is the one who has set-in a bloody and incapable beginner on the perhaps biggest deal in human history and has not been able to pull the emergency brake in time and find capable staff, but instead with mafia-methods tried to rescue his skin and the reputation of his investment fund, which also went completely wrong with this settlement in court. And if someone claim that all this are just peanuts and the lawsuit is a minor issue for such a big investor, then I consider that one takes his son only to such a business appointment, if it is really significant.

I am not happy with IH now but this does not change the fact that Rossi's Ecat did not work. I have not spent anytime on if IH did the required due diligence, as I am sure that is now apparent they 'IH' missed the boat. But Rossi is pretty clear now. But as angry as I am with IH now I can see how they wanted to cut the loss. Not happy but understand it. I have to. Nothing will change the fact that it didn't work.

Quite literally nothing. While LENR exists! this ecat/quarkX will never be in a store in our lifetimes.

This is no longer a question if (in the USA) that it is nuclear, nor a question if it is safe (OSHA) or regulated (state governments) or even a patent (UPSTO) this is not the one to follow anymore. We need to get on to better ideas that have more promise.

Quote from Rigel

Some of the believers need to understand he is just hurting us now.

In which way is hurting ?

Good or bad Rossi has taken the public attention again on LENR after years that LENR was almost forgot.

Look at this Forum. The most active threads are about Rossi.

But I presume also that some people feel hurt because Rossi has the only really working LENR technology and so there is the risk that all the other disappear.

Quote from JedRothwell

First, they cannot be interested in the scientific literature because they do not know it exists.

Jed in wich Nation you live ?

In USA Big Companies make brilliant scientific research. (e.g. IBM, Microsoft and many others )

http://www.research.ibm.com/

http://fortune.com/2014/11/17/top-10-research-development/

BTW the story of Bill Gates was different and well known. Please stop pretending that somebody has told it to you. You start to be pathetic.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/compu…es-steal-the-heart-of-dos

Quote from maryyugo

The reason I attacked the four companies I wrote about, if one can really mount any sort of effective attack from an internet forum, is that they smelled bad.

Oh Mary...... you write like watchdog of the net.

First of all you mix up things. The four companies have little in common apart Defkalion that pretended to have the Rossi Technology without having it and without having paid Rossi.

So Defkalion has probably something in common with IH.

But the others companies are OT here.

What you think about that : http://emdrive.com/ ( another OT) ?

Quote from ele

In which way is hurting ?

Good or bad Rossi has taken the public attention again on LENR after years that LENR was almost forgot.

Look at this Forum. The most active threads are about Rossi.

But I presume also that some people feel hurt because Rossi has the only really working LENR technology and so there is the risk that all the other disappear.

Which way hurting?- good question -> You know maybe it is helping.... but not that I can see it. He may have driven some folks to look at LENR. But to answer your question directly ; he is causing people that have funds away from the field. As they see it as toxic.

I am a strong believer in LENR. Maybe if I could ask him someday.... I would say 'why don't you retire take the money and enjoy life and not get poked by all these people? '

He won this lawsuit. Life is too short you know.

This brouhaha has had one good effect - it has greatly reduced the probability of good time and money being wasted on future con-artists. No-one will in future (I hope!) will enter into a multimillion dollar investment without there being good, solid evidence that what they are investing in actually works as claimed. The bar for "GOOD, SOLID" has been greatly raised in this field.At a minimum, it should involve independent replication of the claimed effect without the "inventor" being hands-on in such efforts.