Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

Quote from Shane D.

Nigel,

True, it will be much harder to find another sucker willing to forgo a true DD on the QX, but that is where his JONP and dedicated fans come in handy. Just as in 2011, he will use both to create enough of a stir in the "save the planet cyberworld", that maybe, just maybe he will lure another victim into his lair and rid them of a few more million $.

Last go around though, he attracted the attention of a few magazines like NYTeknic, Popular Mechanics, Forbes (Mark Gibbs) that made his task finding just the right partner (naive with money) all that much easier. That won't happen again, unless it is for the much less flattering profile of a cunning conman.

Also, back then, Rossi had Focardi, the Swedes, and Cook, who gave him some needed legitimacy. Plus, the LENR field stayed largely quiet, and even offered a few cautious words of hope. I doubt he will be able to count on any legitimate scientists support this time though, and LENR land will definitely not be so quiet.

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Shane D.,

Are you in for any bets?

The E-Cat QX will be very easy to test. Much easier than any other reactor Rossi presented. And on the contrary, i think the court case and all the documents have not only made people curious about Rossi, he now seems more legit than before.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from Rends

Most damaging for the LENR development is the unprofessional approach of Darden et.al. who thought they could play as technology developers and financial investors at the same time, without even having the minimum requirements of necessary technical know-how. what they actually have done was try and error. J.T. Vaughn's testimonies reveal such a high degree of organizational and, above all, technical inability, that I claim them 100% responsible for the fact, that we today still not have clarity about the functionality of Rossi's technology. But above all, Thomas Darden is the one who has set-in a bloody and incapable beginner on the perhaps biggest deal in human history and has not been able to pull the emergency brake in time and find capable staff, but instead with mafia-methods tried to rescue his skin and the reputation of his investment fund, which also went completely wrong with this settlement in court. And if someone claim that all this are just peanuts and the lawsuit is a minor issue for such a big investor, then I consider that one takes his son only to such a business appointment, if it is really significant.

Not only that, I feel deceived by IH. They said "Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success." It turns out, that was false. IH rallied the anti-LENR crowd with that PR release and set the entire LENR+ field back by at least a few years.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Not only that, I feel deceived by IH. They said "Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success." It turns out, that was false.

Repeating this lie does not make it true. They saw no excess heat. At one point they thought they might be seeing excess, but they discovered the cell produces as much apparent heat with only air in it, so that was a mistake. All other tests failed.

You need to get a grip on reality. If I.H. had actually seen real heat, they would have paid the $89 million, they would be making billions of dollars, and -- when word of this got out -- they would be on the front pages of every newspaper on earth. They would not invest $11 million and then casually throw away hundreds of billions of profit from that investment. You cannot possibly come up with a motivation to do that. If they wanted to crush cold fusion, they could do that for zero dollars. Just ignore it. It is dying on its own, and there is no other funding for it.

Anyways, anyone handy with a few tools can build Rossi-style devices that work the same as his when tested the same way his were.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Anyways, anyone handy with a few tools can build Rossi-style devices that work the same as his when tested the same way his were.

My point exactly. It makes no difference what you put inside it: air or sand will work just as well as Rossi's secret nickel powder. Therefore, the results are a calorimetric error.

"he now seems more legit than before"

MY, apparently we are supposed to believe that everyone who has ever gotten good results in this field (and there are hundreds of them) is either dead or somehow has been prevented by the global scientific cabal from improving their apparatus or tweaking their experiments to get better results. They are allowed to scrap everything, try a totally new approach and report great success a few years later. But then, once again, if they want to do more, they either die or are forbidden from any further progress. It is a tough business.

Quote from maryyugo

Which is a demonstration, of sorts, that it's not too difficult to make this type of error, well meaningly.

Especially with an IR camera and no thermocouple backup. Since Levi used a thermocouple backup in the first test, this is inexplicable.

Quote from maryyugo

Probably not true [that cold fusion is dying]. In addition to IH/Woodford, there is Kimmel and probably Larry Page and if you believe the famous "hidden signature" evidence from e-catworld.com, even Bill Gates. And the Chinese and Italian governments and likely many others I/we don't know anything about. So what will the excuse be five more years from now when nothing practical exists and the field is still doubted by the main line science community?

In my opinion Kimmel and "probably Larry Page" are not making much progress. The Chinese, Italian and Japanese governments have provided only minimal funding as far as I know. Sparrow's tears, as they say in Japan. There are not likely many others that I do not know anything about. You wouldn't know about them, but I probably would.

The "excuse" will be the same in 5 years only more so. There is no money now, and if things continue as they are, there will be no money in 5 years. More to the point, when I say the field is dying, I mean it in a literal sense. Most of the researchers are dead, and most of the remaining ones will be incapacitated or dead in 5 years. They themselves seem unaware of this. You would think that scientists would understand actuarial tables, but they act as if they will live forever.

At present I don't see how there will even be an ICCF conference next year. I.H. was going to pay for it, but thanks to Rossi they withdrew support.

Let me add that "nothing practical exists" is never a valid reason to doubt a scientific claim. There is no practical use for the top quark, but no one questions the finding for that reason. Many scientific discoveries have no practical use, ever.

Quote from Bob

Well... the court case is over. I rarely post anymore and will probably soon only visit the site occasionally. Hopefully to keep up to date on Bob Higgins actual and real endeavors! Rossi is a fraud and not worth the time spent. Do not believe me? ... simply follow him another six months and you will see that you are exactly where you are today..... the same as 2 years ago, the same as 3 years ago,, the same as 4.

But with that in mind, I call out IHFB one last time.

What a joke... IHFB "fells deceived by IH"! Of all things! The one "who is looking for truth" is not deceived by Rossi with his FAKE customer, FAKE invoices, FAKE chief Engineer, FAKE heat exchanger!

IHFB is not deceived by Rossi when Rossi posted that a customer PURCHASED the QuarkX in June of 2016. That customer tests were underway and a report would be given in June of 2016! Rossi posted all this TO his LOYAL FANs on JONP. HE CONTINUES TO LIE to you, but YOU feel deceived by IH! Rossi is your glorious idol. This is beyond comprehension.

Under oath, Rossi admitted he has no new partner, no new customer. HE OUT AND OUT LIED TO YOU IHFB! Do you not see it? Rossi could easily prove the heat exchanger, but he does not. He cannot. He could easily prove the eCat works but he does not. Rossi could have been selling the eCat in Europe for the past year, but he has not because he has nothing! Yet IHFB states he "feels deceived" by IH!

IHFB, I call you out again. You are not seeking for truth. You are simply a devoted follower of Rossi and nothing is going to change your view! Simply admit it and stop the "open minded total BS"!

You do not feel deceived by Rossi from :

*The robotized factory that is a "magnificence"! - A lie

*The 13 1MW plants that have been sold in the past. - All lies

*The various customers through the years that "purchased" the non-existing plants - more lies

*The Lugano test that was completely independent and that he had no involvement in! - A really BIG lie

*The Doral customer who would not make statements about the eCat plant. - He WAS the customer! What a deception that was!

*The Doral customer was making their standard production using heat from the eCat and was very satisfied! - What a whopper, there was no production.

*The customer issued requests for invoices for "heat that was used in production" - Lies all! No production was made. Total deception.

*Rossi sued for $89 million, stated the plant ran for 350 days out of 400 with COP > 80 and yet he completely drops the 1MW plant and does not pursue it himself? - How deceptive is this!

*Rossi writes a letter to IH bragging on how he deceived Hydrofusion - Yet you continue to not hold him accountable for anything and yet DREAM up unfounded accusations against IH! -

and the list of Rossi lies goes on and on and on.

Rossi must be most proud of you! Your are his STAR pupil! You are mastering the art of plausible deniability. You are mastering the art of making defamatory and accusative statements with vague content.

You repeat and repeat the unproven as if it was fact. As with Rossi, you are ultimately deceptive. You are not unbiased, but one of the most biased on this list. Which is OK EXCEPT you CLAIM not to be.

You have no respect and will not until you treat Rossi's fraudulent, ongoing practices with the same "it seems to me" as you do IH! That will not happen of course because you are full of it.

One last time. IHFB and others simply try to defame IH because they cannot defend Rossi by his OWN works. They have NOTHING. They can only cry that IH is "bad", meanwhile totally ignoring that Rossi craps on them daily. They have nothing to defend Rossi with because HE does not defend himself!

How sad it must be to have a hero that has no redeeming qualities. And yet you still dream... Tell me IHFB, when will you have something to defend Rossi by other than trying to defame IH? When will you be able to hold up concrete evidence that Rossi deserves believing in, confidence in and trust? When will you start providing actual evidence that Rossi HAS something other than posting only "IH seems to me"?

Rossi is your hero. Start posting some evidence as to WHY he is your hero. You do not because you cannot. You only make feable attempts at defaming IH. You cannot show anything supportive of Rossi from his own actions or works. Sad.

Of course as always in the past... no logical or in-depth response to the above points will be given.

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@Bob,

There is a lot wrong with your post, but i agree with you on one thing. It is better if you only visit this forum and keep the posting for others.

Cheers,

JB

Quote from we_cat_global

@Bob,

There is a lot wrong with your post, but i agree with you on one thing. It is better if you only visit this forum and keep the posting for others.

Cheers,

JB

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Content-free riposte noted. Well, what else can you do?

Quote from interested observer

MY, apparently we are supposed to believe that everyone who has ever gotten good results in this field (and there are hundreds of them) is either dead or somehow has been prevented by the global scientific cabal from improving their apparatus or tweaking their experiments to get better results.

If you go to the trouble to look up the names and C.V.s of the researchers in the major papers from 1989 through 2000 or so, you can easily determine that those people are now somewhere between 80 and 100 years old if they are still alive. Very few people still conduct laboratory research at those ages. Most of them are dead. You can confirm that with an actuarial table.

I have their obituaries so I know which ones are dead, but you don't need that information. Surely you know that most people are dead by age 90, and very few are capable of doing laboratory research.

They made good progress while they lived and had funding. They did get better results. A few of them still are getting better results.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

Anyways, anyone handy with a few tools can build Rossi-style devices that work the same as his when tested the same way his were.

Not with COP of 9. IH said all without success. That was false. Even you yourself suggested it would be difficult to impossible to fake out a thermal camera to that degree. You throw in the possibility of bad input, but come on, there is nothing to suggest that on the record. In fact, there is no contemporaneous evidence that refutes the positive results IH had.

All we have is Darden's after-the-fact self-serving testimony and story about a supposed dummy device in January 2014, after which he proceeded to raise tens of millions of dollars from Woodford (he must have really been convinced by that dummy reactor).

Quote from maryyugo

They actually think IH would try to do an obvious and doomed-to-failure ripoff of Rossi to avoid paying a few millions and then they planned to run off, make megawatt plants and hot cats and make billions. And get away with it.

Walmart does this very thing quite effectively.

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2017…ing-patent-ptab/id=85639/

You don't think IH ever thought of pulling the same kind of shenanigans? Rossi has a single questionable patent granted in the U.S.--that's it.

@Bob,

Nice vent. You'll be back.

Quote from JedRothwell

At present I don't see how there will even be an ICCF conference next year. I.H. was going to pay for it, but thanks to Rossi they withdrew support.

Last I remember hearing, they were distracted by the litigation, and so could not do both. The litigation is over, so I think that excuse is also gone. I don't think they ever truly intended to pay for ICCF. I suspect they planted that thought at a strategic time during the dispute in an attempt to sway support toward them in the battle for their own future and existence. It was at its center, selfish, not altruistic. Easy to blame Rossi for everything, but I think IH should take some responsibility for themselves.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Not with COP of 9.

You are not paying attention to the discussion here, or you do not understand it. It is dead simple to get a bogus COP of 9 with an IR camera. Flow calorimetry is usually more reliable, but with a little tweaking you can make it produce any result you want. Defkalion demonstrated this, but Rossi far outdid them. As you see in the Penon report, during the 1-year test, Rossi got a fake result of 50 times output. This was such blatant fraud, so obvious and so badly done, that no one who visited the site or looked at the data during the test believed it. But that was what the numbers showed. Apparently Rossi hoped I.H. would pay $89 million for that dog's breakfast.

(Naturally, you and other members of Planet Rossi believe the Penon data, but you believe anything Rossi says, no matter how outlandish.)