Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

Quote from sigmoidal

When I was slandered by others, it consisted of false accusations made to undermine the credibility of our findings. But eventually that backfired, because others independently verified our results. As it turned out, the slandering party eventually ended up with reduced credibility, because their slander came from an obvious conflict of interest.

Sig, just so you understand, I've always sensed that you were honest in your assertions and in your positions. I've never doubted that. Though we have never met, and perhaps never will, much can be learned of someone through their writings.

And I'll also admit that Rossi sometimes takes liberties with the truth. Understand, however, that Rossi is a rough and tumble industrialist. I view you as more of a sophisticated and smart grant-funded researcher.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that you have owned and run companies, hired employees and made payroll each week, negotiated multi-million $ contracts, risked your life savings on an invention, just to name a few that Rossi has done. These kinds of experiences shape a person into who they are. And the reality is, to be successful in business, you must often run false flags, dupe, and stoop. And Rossi is good at it. It doesn't mean he is a "con" man or inherently bad. It takes all types to make the world go 'round, and a particular type to save it.

"But eventually that backfired, because others independently verified our results. As it turned out, the slandering party eventually ended up with reduced credibility, because their slander came from an obvious conflict of interest."

Right. I hope for you and comrades that you haven't spoken too soon.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that you have owned and run companies, hired employees and made payroll each week, negotiated multi-million $ contracts, risked your life savings on an invention, just to name a few that Rossi has done. These kinds of experiences shape a person into who they are. And the reality is, to be successful in business, you must often run false flags, dupe, and stoop. And Rossi is good at it. It doesn't mean he is a "con" man or inherently bad. It takes all types to make the world go 'round, and a particular type to save it.

I didn't think you were accusing me of being a con man. Rather, I'm simply pointing out that equating my experience of receiving slander is not at all parallel to Rossi, who boasts about his deceptive 'masterpieces'.

I actually do own my own company, but currently it's just a shell waiting for some pieces to fall into place before it makes any sense to 'become funcitonal'. For what it's worth, some of what you assume about me is true. But I certainly don't take Lewan's sometimes romantic account, which in many places was substantially derived from Rossisays, as entirely accurate regarding Rossi. But in any case, I certainly have not walked in Rossi's shoes. And neither has anyone else. Obviously, we each walk in our own shoes. But where and how each of us walks has consequences.

"it takes all types to make the world go 'round ..and a particular type to save it."

There are types that exploit others for personal gain. And there are types that work sacrificially to improve society and discover new things.

Obviously we have different 'typing' conclusions regarding Rossi.

Given Rossi's new 'unfettered' status, one would think that it should not take too long to determine if Rossi has anything.

But then, Rossi.

(As you succinctly stated and observed elsewhere)

Quote from sigmoidal

I didn't think you were accusing me of being a con man. Rather, I'm simply pointing out that equating my experience of receiving slander is not at all parallel to Rossi, who boasts about his deceptive 'masterpieces'.

I actually do own my own company, but currently it's just a shell waiting for some pieces to fall into place before it makes any sense to 'become funcitonal'. For what it's worth, some of what you assume about me is true. But I certainly don't take Lewan's sometimes romantic account, which in many places was substantially derived from Rossisays, as entirely accurate regarding Rossi. But in any case, I certainly have not walked in Rossi's shoes. And neither has anyone else. Obviously, we each walk in our own shoes. But where and how each of us walks has consequences.

"it takes all types to make the world go 'round ..and a particular type to save it."

There are types that exploit others for personal gain. And there are types that work sacrificially to improve society and discover new things.

Obviously we have different 'typing' conclusions regarding Rossi.

Given Rossi's new 'unfettered' status, one would think that it should not take too long to determine if Rossi has anything.

But then, Rossi.

(As you succinctly stated and observed elsewhere)

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It's rather sad when people admire, deceptive, fraudulent business practices, even if one believes in the "end cause"--that's what's wrong with so much of business, politics, etc. is the crowd that believes "the ends always justifies the means" (notwithstanding the veracity of any of Rossi's "inventions"). I've also worked for fortune 10 companies, for 15 years, and had my own business for 15 years, spent my own money on patents and R&D, own money on litigating patent/proprietary information, licensed technology to other companies, and I can guarantee that we have NEVER conducted any such "liberties with the truth" to defraud customers, obtain contracts, funds, etc. The other classic criminal's logic seen is that "it's their fault, they shouldn't have LET HIM rob that bank". There is a major difference between honest hard-nosed legal business competition and negotiation, and dishonest shady operators--it may take quite some time, but their actions, and karma, catches up with them eventually. People with opinions/ethics like this are however indeed why now in business, one definitely , unfortunately, has to start out with the assumption that everyone is out to take advantage of people that play by the rulebook, and take precautions accordingly.

Quote from maryyugo

@Adrian Ashfield

Complete nonsense. How in the world would you know that? Because Mills says so? It's a huge arc welder power supply melting some helpless piece of metal (or whatever) placed in the way. Razzle dazzle nonsense. Same old crap, same old hype, same old you falling for it.

Roger

None of the above. Rossi has been clearly shown to be a third rate, low grade, con man crook. Or perhaps you neglected to browse the exhibits in the pretrial depositions and submissions?

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I find it utterly fascinating that Rossi and others can become experts on plasma physics literally overnight (even more astounding since Rossi seems to have a pretty hard time with simple math, much less vector calculus and such (don't think I've ever seen an integral in any of his ciphering, much less one of those funky upside-down triangle thingies), and (literally overnight), experts on devising and assembling apparatus for their new plasma physics "theories" AND perform successful plasma fusion experiments within rusty contaminated plumbing scraps, tape, and toggle clamps. When, for decades, those ignorant ole hoards of physicists, mathematicians, varied engineering and trades fields have been toiling away in universities, companies, government labs, millions of man-hours, and billions (if not trillions) of dollars on all that silly education, science, complicated experimental apparatus, analytical equipment/instrumentation, and software--and they ALL missed the fact all they needed was some rusty plumbing scraps, surplus meters, pumps and power-supplies, pixie-dust and a purchased PhD. Amazing.

Quote from guest111

It's rather sad when people admire, deceptive, fraudulent business practices, even if one believes in the "end cause"--that's what's wrong with so much of business, politics, etc. is the crowd that believes "the ends always justifies the means" (notwithstanding the veracity of any of Rossi's "inventions"). I've also worked for fortune 10 companies, for 15 years, and had my own business for 15 years, spent my own money on patents and R&D, own money on litigating patent/proprietary information, licensed technology to other companies, and I can guarantee that we have NEVER conducted any such "liberties with the truth" to defraud customers, obtain contracts, funds, etc. The other classic criminal's logic seen is that "it's their fault, they shouldn't have LET HIM rob that bank". There is a major difference between honest hard-nosed legal business competition and negotiation, and dishonest shady operators--it may take quite some time, but their actions, and karma, catches up with them eventually. People with opinions/ethics like this are however indeed why now in business, one definitely , unfortunately, has to start out with the assumption that everyone is out to take advantage of people that play by the rulebook, and take precautions accordingly.

It is an age-old distinction: do the ends justify the means?

In crime there is a usually mistaken view of the ends (crime seldom pays) together with no interest in the quality of the process taken to get to them.

In business the focus on ends (paying your way) is crucial for the reason that the livelihoods of your employees depend on this - as I know well from my mother's stories about the (highly successful) startup she was dragged into as partner by a friend and learnt HR, finance, sales etc as she went.

But even as a start-up just a few $10,000 from being bankrupt if you lose sight of the importance of process (doing things properly) under pressure from ends then you may win short-term but you will not build a company for the future. Bad business practices, poor relationships with licensees or customers, are not illegal, but in the end they are self-defeating.

Rossi exhibits bad business practice so much that he almost defines the term. i think sometimes the distinction between those here who naturally want to stick up for him, and those who naturally view him with suspicion, comes from whether you understand that good business (and good research) comes from honesty and good relationships with others.

Quote from [email protected]

Rossi sued IH when it became evident they had started working with Rossi's competitors and they wouldn't be paying him the $89M. The contract they had with him never said they could expect it to work independently, it only required that he deliver the technology and an independent ERV report. He pulled a Fred Flinstone.

The Ecat worked independently of direct involvement of Ecat people when those 7 Swedish scientists did a blackbox study of it. For a time, Rossi was on a completely different continent, let alone a different room.

Kev -

You know I'm sure that the Lugano report has been thoroughly debunked. Paradigmnoia would be willing to show you a COP=3 empty reactor using exactly their methodology (he has done it). Or, I could lead you through the technical stuff in TC's paper which tells you why they got it wrong.

But, in any case, Rossi was present for the Lugano experiment. Did you not know? In fact either Rossi or Fulvio was present the whole time and the Swedes made only flying visits to check. That is how Rossi was able to pull the plug on the dummy test when the temperature got too high and prevent it being a control.

I know it is easy to swallow Rossi's statements of independent tests, and it certainly looked superficially like that. But we find from the Court evidence that it was not.

Quote from guest111

But I believe it was you, and others here, that said that Rossi would not stop until he got his $89M, because he was righteous and could absolutely prove his case, and that was why he filed it (I see you have changed your tune on this, again); so in that case, he LOST, he could not prove his case apparently, and folded like a house of cards when his kamikaze (and probably perjures ) bluff was called.

You're wrong, I never said that Rossi would never stop before he got his 89M because I'm not in his head and I've never had the presumption to know what he thinks. I may have said that in my opinion he was right and that he would certainly have been able to answer all the charges in court because that's what I think. And yet only a totally unsatisfied person can say that Rossi came out defeated by this process: he kept both the money he had earned for the sale of the IP and the IP itself, and he also kept the 1MW plant . It takes courage to call it defeat!

Quote from [email protected]

No, the folks who keep calling Rossi a fraud and a crook are the ones being silly. It is time for them to put up or shut up.

It is provable that Rossi is not a fraud because all of the data has been entered into the docket and it couldn't even meet the civil law standard of "preponderance of evidence" so there's no way it will meet the higher criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt".

strange twisting. It was Rossi that brought suit. It was he that had to show with the preponderance of evidence that he had what he claimed so he could get $200+ M. The countersuit was only a defensive position after Rossi attacked IH by claiming he had produced excess 1MW for an extended time. He could not do it.

Quote from lenrisnotreal

IH and their team of top scientists had exclusive access to all of the Ecat IP for years. They also had assistance from the Ecat people. They were never able to make the Ecat work independently as claimed.

Actually at first the team was made up of a not too expert engineer and VCs ...... only after a long time they decided to call some experts (if they are so..... Smith seems to have not been able even to read the manual it has submitted as evidence!). When they had the chance to collaborate with Boeing, they wasted the opportunity by supplying them the wrong fuel. Do you really think that the E-Cat does not work just because IH (in the end) said it?

Quote from oldguy

It was Rossi that brought suit. It was he that had to show with the preponderance of evidence that he had what he claimed so he could get $200+ M. The countersuit was only a defensive position after Rossi attacked IH by claiming he had produced excess 1MW for an extended time. He could not do it.

Come on ! Weaver and Co. claimed here that Rossi would be destroyed that he would be imprisoned and blah blah blah....... And when Rossi proposed an agreement IH immediately acepted ! This demonstrate that Rossi was able to win the battle and was not a cheater. He proposed the agreement just to to avoid the usual "bankrupt trick" that Darden used many times.

Quote from THHuxleynew

You know I'm sure that the Lugano report has been thoroughly debunked. Paradigmnoia would be willing to show you a COP=3 empty reactor using exactly their methodology (he has done it). Or, I could lead you through the technical stuff in TC's paper which tells you why they got it wrong.

THH this is your usual leit-motive. Interesting that you fail to report that all critics have been answered here.

The TC paper is a nonsense masqueraded by a LaTeX layout and also the story of the COP 3 Dummy is pure fiction !

Quote from guest111

I find it utterly fascinating that Rossi and others can become experts on plasma physics literally overnight

Edison was not an expert but a great inventor ! This was even real for Marconi.

Rossi is a great worker and experimenter also ! Many times in history Experts were unable to find new solutions and inventions!

Quote from THHuxleynew

Rossi exhibits bad business practice

Really? He was able to get a settlement with a company that was much powerful than his . He demonstrated to be much stronger then IH..... so I think he is not to bad doing business.

Ele - As you may know, Rossi's attorney proposed a walkaway moments before testimony was to begin. I presume that TD accepted to eliminate risk and to keep any further capital from flowing to law firms.

Rossi clearly wanted out for several obvious reasons. I'm personally disappointed that we did not see this through but completely understand and accept the decision.

I don't see you anywhere near the finish line either - the one on your planet doesn't count.

Quote from ele

Come on ! Weaver and Co. claimed here that Rossi would be destroyed that he would be imprisoned and blah blah blah....... And when Rossi proposed an agreement IH immediately acepted ! This demonstrate that Rossi was able to win the battle and was not a cheater. He proposed the agreement just to to avoid the usual "bankrupt trick" that Darden used many times.

laughable, Rossi attacks IH by bringing a suit and then proposes an agreement to walk away from his attack. I do not see him winning a battle but backing away from his attack when he found that he could not prove his case against IH to get $89 to 200M and recover his IP. There would be no "bankrupt trick" unless Rossi lost the case. Rossi knew full well before he brought suit that IH would likely be able to bring more money than he could to the table. He gave up and ran away.