Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • The chance of Rossi being prosecuted for fraud .. when the "victims" are multi-million-to-billion-dollar funds , where there was a (badly-written) contract, where both parties switcherood their companies, where the victims already paid $11.5m (and didn't seriously dispute the acceptance test), where the "victims" had the resources to do supa-dupa-dilligence but didn't, where there was a (crap-shoot who'd win) court case, where the victims "walked away" with a nothing/nada/zip settlement ...

    0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %

    OK : not ABSOLUTE zero, but pretty close.

    I would agree on it being very unlikely that the Florida authorities will pursue fraud charges. They have bigger fish to fry and what would be gained? Extremely few, if any, will be willing to invest in Rossi now, so prosecutors will probably feel there is little reason to protect the public in this matter.

    HOWEVER...... The IRS is an entirely different story. "IF" Rossi did not pay taxes on the 11.5 million, you can bet he probably already has been contacted about scheduling an IRS audit. The IRS will jump on that immediately. Just as with Al Capone, the IRS may be the ones to "finally enact justice"!

    That being said, I do not know what the status of his taxes were. It was enough of an issue that it put him in jail in Italy. So much so that IH even insured it was written in the original contract that Rossi had to pay all taxes on monies they paid him. It was not a trivial matter. I do not know what the depositions brought to light on the subject. Taxes were not my interest, only what evidence of a working eCat technology was presented. (NONE!) But if Rossi did not pay taxes, there will be no escaping the IRS, you can "take that to the bank"! If he did pay them.... then there should be no problem for him.

    • Indeed someone has taken the trouble to make sure Florida authorities are clued in, in detail, about Rossi. However, Florida has a lot of fraud and abuse and tons of other crimes. Rossi is a piss-ant trivia compared to some and his priority is probably low. Investigations take lots of time and effort. Penalties for white collar fraud tend to be low. It just may not be worth the effort but it sure would be gratifying to see the man imprisoned again.

    If the evidence submitted under oath to the docket was proof of fraud then those investigators would be locking up Rossi today, their work already having been done for them. But that isn't the case. Every day that goes by is another day we can say we have legal proof that Rossi is not a fraud.

    And you know what, anyone who is a citizen in this country can arrest another person whom they have observed committing a crime. So there is nothing stopping YOU from citizen-arresting Rossi for fraud. All the evidence is right there, submitted to the court.

    Maybe until you follow through on your claims of fraud, you should consider using a different legal claim against Rossi than fraud. Perhaps call him a scientific charlatan, like what a lot of hot-fusion scientists are because they know they won't achieve marketable fusion products for way more than 50 years.

  • But it was never hashed out in court, so we have guys like you saying the Lugano report was thoroughly debunked and other guys saying that's a bunch of bullshit.

    Such issues cannot be hashed out in court. A court is not a valid place to establish the truth or falsehood of a scientific proposition. You have to use your own best judgement to decide which group you agree with. There is no magic touchstone to knowing the truth in such matters.

    Do the Lugano report participants acknowledge their mistakes? That's where the rubber meets the road.

    No, it isn't. Whether they acknowledge their mistakes or not has no bearing on whether they made mistakes. That question can only be resolved with reference to textbook laws of physics, the instrument manuals, and other objective criteria. Their own statements or admissions should play no role in evaluating whether they were correct or mistaken.

    That is, once again, the problem with science. There is no central authority we can take this to and force through these issues. It is one of the reasons that Rossisez "In Mercato Veritas".

    In Mercato Veritas ("let the market decide") can play no role in scientific research. It can never be the standard. In the research phase, it is impossible to sell the effect. No one has any use for it. It can have no practical use or dollar value. If the effect did have a practical use, it would no longer be scientific research. It would be product engineering, which is an entirely different animal.

    For example, if the Lugano gadget had some practical use, people could buy it, and if enough customers reported it works we would know the Lugano researchers were correct in their assessment. We could apply the Mercato Veritas standard. Unfortunately, it has no use and it has not been sold to anyone. So we have to depend entirely on the standards of academic science to evaluate it, and such things as the IR camera manual. If you do not understand IR cameras, you cannot evaluate it. Or if you do not understand that certain temperatures produce certain incandescent colors, you cannot evaluate it. That is true of all cold fusion claims, just as it was true of all fission claims until 1945. Fission could only be evaluated in scientific terms, and you could only understand it -- or believe it was real -- if you understood scientific instruments and experiments. In 1945, three dramatic, real-world, full scale devices were demonstrated. Two were demonstrated on the battlefield, not in the market, but it amounts to the same thing.

  • Really, you say? He sued for $90M, he received nothing on his complaint, he had to pay all (millions) of his own legal bills and in return for all this, he got back completely worthless so-called IP and a few pieces of industrial junk. That sure was brilliant business practice!

    If the IP was so worthless then why didn't IH settle a year earlier and save on all those legal fees? Because they valued the IP, that's why.

  • If the evidence submitted under oath to the docket was proof of fraud then those investigators would be locking up Rossi today, their work already having been done for them. But that isn't the case.

    I believe you are wrong about that. They are not locking up Rossi today probably because they are busy with other cases. His may be of such low priority they never get around to it. It usually takes the police a long time to arrest or charge anyone for fraud. I read about such things in the newspapers. New reports describe how people commit fraud by robbing elderly people (for example). The police find out about it soon after it happens, but the suspect is sometimes not arrested until years later. Apparently there is a backlog, and low-priority cases take a long time to prosecute.

    The fact that Rossi has not been arrested yet is no proof that he is not guilty, or that he will not be arrested in the future.

  • Jed, hate to dash all of the wishful thinking of you and Mary Yugo, but it ain't gonna happen.

    You are either claiming to be clairvoyant, or you claiming to have some inside information from law enforcement officials. If your clairvoyant tea-leaf reading skills are at the same level as your ability to judge the Penon report, I will take this as proof that Rossi will be arrested and found guilty of criminal fraud.

    You don't hate to do this. You enjoy doing it. But you are not "dashing" any wishful thinking or vain hopes, because Yugo and I have both said we have no idea whether the police will go after Rossi. We do not know if he is a high enough priority. We are not hoping for this. We are only saying it would be gratifying to see him pay a price for his criminal acts. In my case, I would like to see him punished indirectly for destroying the last hope of funding cold fusion. That is not a crime strictly speaking, but it is a dreadful thing.

    • Official Post

    Edison was not an expert but a great inventor ! This was even real for Marconi.

    Rossi is a great worker and experimenter also ! Many times in history Experts were unable to find new solutions and inventions!

    Rossi has been described to me by not one but two very knowledgable experimental physicists whose names are not connected with any of his pubic work. By one as 'incredibly intuitive' and by the other as 'able to go from A to E while I'm still working on B&C'.

  • @Jed,

    LENR+ is well-funded. We'll see funding at levels you never imagined could be possible in the next 5-10 years. Legacy LENR maybe not so much. The LENR+ community will be the ones holding conferences in the future. The LENR+ community is relatively young, ambitious, and very idealistic. The shift might seem subtle at the moment, but will become more apparent in time.

  • LENR+ is well-funded.

    What are you talking about? LENR+ does not exist as far as I know. Where is it being done, and how much funding is there?

    Perhaps you are describing Brillouin. I cannot judge their results, and I have no idea how much funding they have. Mills seems to have a lot of funding but he claims his work is not cold fusion, and I cannot make head or tail of it.

  • Rossi has been described to me by not one but two very knowledgable experimental physicists whose names are not connected with any of his pubic work. By one as 'incredibly intuitive' and by the other as 'able to go from A to E while I'm still working on B&C'.

    That I can believe. And also that he regularly does this when there is no logical connection between A,B,C,D,E and so constructs towers of fantasy.

  • @ sigmoidal,


    The first sentence is true, JoNP is a major part of the stage craft, but the other two are mere presumptions, which are in contrast with what Krivit wrote in 2010 and in 2011:…nd-rossi-reality-or-scam/

    I'm not postulating anything (@ Roger: less than ever a theory!). I'm just occasionally reminding of what Krivit wrote in 2010 about the JoNP. It's bizarre that so many here harshly denounce the contents, but nobody takes care of the container.


    I have read all the content on your links. This did not take long because most of it I had already read before.

    Here's how I interpret the emails Krivit wrote in 2010 regarding Rossi's claim that JoNP had a 'board of directors'. Krivit was frustrated regarding the potential for Rossi to tarnish LENR research generally, and he was concerned and anxious that there might be multiple people involved who were setting up Rossi to do the tarnishing. Clues to this are his emphatic and repeated use of the phrase "puhleeze tell me [there is no conspiracy]".

    Those few emails were not just speculative, they were formed in the negative (please tell me 'no') and asked as a question to LENR enthusiasts. He had no evidence, he was just speculating - he was trying to rule out some bigger plot to harm LENR credibility generally, and doing so to alert the community of LENR support to a possible concern. The best evidence that this was just a passing idea for him is from Krivit himself in the 2016 summary he wrote (which you cited), which says nothing about some conspiratorial plot by others (like the DoD or anyone else) to discredit LENR, and New Energy Times shows no follow-up in this postulated idea. If Krivit really thought that there was evidence of his 2010 questions , you can bet he would have investigated it energetically and tenaciously, like he has with Rossi generally. But he didn't.

    This is not to say that there aren't some who might be focusing on discrediting LENR research generally. I'm just saying that even Krivit no longer thinks that JoNP was created or controlled for that purpose (to discredit LENR).

    But I have a suggestion for you if you haven't already done this: write Krivit and ask him if he still thinks your notion, based on his email rant, regarding some covert 'board of directors' of JoNP exists and is coordinating some sort of nefarious plot where Rossi is a mere tool for their ultimate aim to tarnish LENR research.

    It's obvious to me that Rossi just made up his imaginary JoNP 'board of directors' to add credibility to his imaginary 'journal'.

    Just like he creates fake commenters (sock puppets) to try to increase his credibility, and he used an imaginary customer to try to increase his credibility (which kind of worked but then he had to follow through by actually setting it up), and he created an imaginary heat exchanger to try to increase his credibility (and fake robotic factories, products, Master's degree in Engineering, Director of Engineering, window repairs, certification tests, fuel ash, endothermic processes, etc.).

    This is all very consistent behavior on Rossi's part. As a PR 'genius', Rossi knows he has a credibility problem, so he's doing what he can to try to increase his credibility. And given the depths of his credibility problem, this is not an easy task!

    I'm having difficulty understanding why this isn't obvious to you, and why you are fixated on Krivit's speculative rant made over 7 years ago. Krivit isn't fixated on it at all, so does it really make sense for you to be?

    With apologies to Abraham Lincoln: JoNP is a fake journal 'of the Rossi, by the Rossi, and for the Rossi'. You can safely put this notion to rest.

  • It is truly illuminating to come here because almost every Rossi believer "knows a guy" or has information whose source he cannot divulge that vindicates Rossi or uncovers major projects in LENR+ that nobody else knows about. It is quite fascinating that some of the most important scientific progress on the planet is unknown to everyone except for a handful of anonymous knuckleheads on the internet. Who knew? At least they are willing to share their wisdom with us apart from any details that would lend even a shred of believability to what they say.