Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

    Quote from oldguy

    laughable, Rossi attacks IH by bringing a suit and then proposes an agreement to walk away from his attack. I do not see him winning a battle but backing away from his attack when he found that he could not prove his case against IH to get $89 to 200M and recover his IP. There would be no "bankrupt trick" unless Rossi lost the case. Rossi knew full well before he brought suit that IH would likely be able to bring more money than he could to the table. He gave up and ran away.

    Your post is a nonsense. Rossi started his suit without Ip but with initial IH payment. After the suit (and thanks to it) he obtained Ip and IH renounced to take back the payment...


    What can we say? I would say that Rossi has improved his situation without finishing the trial.


    If IH had been so sure about its reasons, it would had refused settlement or signed a different settlement.

    Your are a Lawyer like me. In this settlement I see a party who has solved a problem. A bad licence agreement with a bad clause.


    If we assume ecat is scam, this agreement is a good victory for Rossi, because he has obtained the initial payment 😎

    If we assume ecat is real, this agreement is far better. Because he has obtained ip whose value is multiple times more than 80M...


    But let me say that a big and rich client signs such an agreement only if he thinks he could loose... Otherwhise it's better to celebrate the trial...

    @ Roger,

    Quote from Roger

    So one of the hypothesis for this whole affair, would be that Rossi is the main actor in the progressive, drama-filled disclosure of a technology that's probably been used by the military for quite a while?

    I can share only the first part of your hypothesis, ie that Rossi is on the stage to play the role of a providential inventor, a sort of Tesla of the XXI century. The last part is impossible: LENR (assuming you meant this supposed technology) doesn't exist.

    @ sigmoidal,

    Quote from sigmoidal

    But I don't really see why this is significant. Rossi obviously runs JoNP, and fills it full of fake Rossiworld stuff. Maybe Melich registered the domain and gave it to Rossi.

    If you really think that this possibility (ie that a functionary of the DoD registered and gave to Rossi the site where he posted fake stuff for 7+ years) is not significant, well, we not only have different positions, but we use also a different logic.

    Quote

    I would encourage you to try a bit more strenuously to contact Krivit with your questions. Here are three possible ways to do that (based on entering 'Steven Krivit LENR' into a search engine):

    Thank you for the links, but I did already ask him. My request was clear and he was there. I can reasonably consider his silence as a confirmation of his allusions, otherwise he would have corrected them.


    And in any case, the real authoritative confirmation should have had to come from the DoD herself, but they decided not to answer about the "more recent developments in LENR" even if the request came from the US House of Representatives. This could be significant, as well.


    Thanks for all your kind replies.


    All the best, to you too.


    You seem really confused by insisting that Melich can only be 'a functionary of the DoD'. He is a research professor at a US Navy Graduate School. He has a PhD in Theoretical Physics that he obtained from Rice University (a reputable private institution). He starts working for the Navy as a professor, and does so for many years. He is not limited to being only 'a functionary of the DoD', though. As a professor, he has latitude to do many things that are not related to his DoD work. He could have paid the $20 registration fee himself out of pocket. You don't live in the US, I presume, so maybe things are different in your country. But there is nothing preventing any Navy employee from registering a domain privately. Navy personnel are not 'owned' by the DoD. They have rights as private citizens which they can exercise whenever they are not 'on duty'.


    So let's go with your assumption that Melich was the original registrant of journal-of-nuclear-physics.com . Melich is a professor. Maybe (unrelated to any knowledge of Rossi) in the middle of the night he got inspired to start an online Journal of Nuclear Physics, so he quickly looked online and registered the URL. But he was busy and time passed, and he never had the time to really pursue it. So he just had it 'sitting on the shelf' so to speak. (I've registered 5 URL's for ideas that I've more or less given up on).


    We know from his CV that Melich is/was an LENR enthusiast prior to Rossi's E-Cat. Then he hears about Rossi and gets really excited because it looks like Rossi doesn't merely have LENR, he's got LENR+! So he meets Rossi and tries to think of ways that he, as a professor, can help him out. And he's like, 'Hey Andrea, I think it would really help if you started publishing your research and also you could manage a Journal that I thought of and got a URL for, but never seem to have the time to start it up and run it. I'll let you have it if you want so you can advance the field of LENR+. Would you like that?"


    Melich could easily and reasonably have done that without any input, endorsement, or any other connection to the DoD. Stuff like this happens all the time in the US (where a government employed person establishes some private online presence). Its absolutely normal, and there's nothing wrong (or right) about it.


    One example of a 'DoD' employed person who takes time to post here and is certainly not doing it 'as a functionary of the DoD' is Kirk Shanahan. (See what you can learn from search engines?)


    So under your assumption that Melich was the registrant, does it not seem likely (or at least plausible) that he simply gave (or maybe even sold for a small fee) the URL to Rossi because he wasn't interested in pursuing it and/or he wanted to help a colleague out? And if that is, in fact, what happened, why is that in any way significant?


    But do you even have any proof that Melich registered that name? Because the current registrant is named as: 'EFA SRL' located in: 'BOLOGNA, ITALY'.


    So my question to you is: Why do you think that a website clearly controlled by Andrea Rossi and registered in Bologna Italy has any connection to the US DoD (other than possibly that a US citizen who happens to be employed by the Navy as his 'day job' also has helped him get it started)?


    It just seems really bizarre to me.


    And please consider that one way to interpret the fact that Krivit hasn't responded to you is that he no longer is interested in his speculation regarding the JoNP board of directors that you have become so interested in.


    Or maybe there's some super secret conspiracy that's so complex that it doesn't make any sense to outside observers. We can never completely rule that out, can we?

    Quote from Italianlawyer

    If we assume ecat is scam, this agreement is a good victory for Rossi, because he has obtained the initial payment 😎

    If we assume ecat is real, this agreement is far better. Because he has obtained ip whose value is multiple times more than 80M...


    But let me say that a big and rich client signs such an agreement only if he thinks he could loose... Otherwhise it's better to celebrate the trial...

    IH people came out weakened by this process: they proved to be incompetent and presumptuous, they paid 11.5M to have nothing in hand, neither the IP nor the 1MW plant and they spent millions in lawyers. But their supporters will continue to repeat to us perpetually that it was Rossi that came out defeated by this affair. They obviously need to believe this ....

    It's gonna be fun to watch you 2 lawyers go at it. Do you think the contract covered the Fred Flinstone strategy? I.e., Fred tweaked his earthmover dinosaur in such a fashion that he was the only person who could operate it. Rossi tweaked his box so that Rossi was the only one who could operate it, which I perceive is not something covered in the contract. He transferred the IP, he tested it under a 3rd party agreed to by both sides, but when it came time for IH to get it to work by themselves, they realized they still needed him. Their refusal to pay the $89M was because they thought they had bought the technology and the obligation to get it to work for them. I perceive that final obligation to be worth far more than $89M when IH was setting up competitors with Rossi's IP. So Rossi pulled his Fred Flinstone maneuver.

    Quote from Ascoli65

    @ Roger,

    I can share only the first part of your hypothesis, ie that Rossi is on the stage to play the role of a providential inventor, a sort of Tesla of the XXI century. The last part is impossible: LENR (assuming you meant this supposed technology) doesn't exist.


    Of course it doesn't: why else would people spend years writing about its nonexistence, across all blogs and forums that dare mention it?

    Quote from axil

    As it has come to pass, the entire legal process was a waste of time and the people who had followed that trial with wrapped attention have wasted a ton of time on obvious propaganda, that Penon report included.

    The Penon report is not propaganda. It was written before the legal process was launched, and the data in it was collected for the entire year. (It was not all collected; anyone can see that much of it was invented.) This is the one and only technical report issued by Rossi. It is the only description of any of Rossi's experiments published by Rossi himself. Based on that report -- and that report only -- he demanded $89 million from I.H., and later filed suit.


    Since you have not read the report, you do not know what it says and you cannot contradict me or argue with me about this.

    Quote from JedRothwell

    The Penon report is not propaganda. It was written before the legal process was launched, and the data in it was collected for the entire year. (It was not all collected; anyone can see that much of it was invented.) This is the one and only technical report issued by Rossi. It is the only description of any of Rossi's experiments published by Rossi himself. Based on that report -- and that report only -- he demanded $89 million from I.H., and later filed suit.


    Since you have no read the report, you do not know what it says and you cannot contradict me or argue with me about this.


    Jed. I don't want to argue. The trial is over and Rossi got what he wanted. When there is contention over a lot of money, truth takes a holiday. I just want to see you get back to that good old even tempered Jed, the reasonable guy who has done so much for LENR.


    The end of October is approaching. Rossi indicates that he is coming to the end of his development. I will leave the Rossi trial in the past and give you benefit of my open mine in consideration of this last demo. Rest up. take your August vacation, gather your strength for the last push to find the truth. Look toward the future and forget the past. Like so many others, I will be among the crowd, I am nothing special in this regard, needing no special attention, I will be considering your expert and respected opinions with an impartial mind.

    Quote from Dewey Weaver

    Looks like we figured out which Planet ItalianLawyer got his law degree from.


    Dear Dewey.

    I hope you find the power in you to stop hunting that white whale.


    I understood why you were so emotionally invested when the trial was still on. But why still now?

    Quote from SSC

    IH people came out weakened by this process: they proved to be incompetent and presumptuous, they paid 11.5M to have nothing in hand, neither the IP nor the 1MW plant and they spent millions in lawyers. But their supporters will continue to repeat to us perpetually that it was Rossi that came out defeated by this affair. They obviously need to believe this ....


    Well OBVIOUSLY Rossi did not come out defeated. But nor did he win the case and the hundreds of millions he was claiming.

    And OBVIOUSLY if the whole Rossi/IH thing were a con then at the end the conman (Rossi) would end up with a lot of money and the mark (IH) would end up with nothing. So at the end of the process does it look like it was a con?


    I am not interested in "But the con man says this" or "But the conman showed us some figures" or "But the conman has a friend who verifies his stuff".


    The only way out for a real business man would be to say "It was a business disagreement over a bad deal. So now I will sell my product with another partner."

    What a conman would do is say "Oh I dropped that product, I have a wonderful new thing that you must see, except you can't because its secret, but I can show you a photo".

    Quote

    Well OBVIOUSLY Rossi did not come out defeated.

    Not so fast, siwwie wabbit.


    On the main law suit brought by Rossi for $89M plus triple punitive damages, Rossi settled for nothing on the complaint and paid his own millions in legal bills. If that's not a loss, maybe Germany and Japan won World War 2?

    On the much smaller countersuit to recover $10M misspent by IH on Rossi initially, it was not a strong case and IH did lose that one. Hardly a win for Rossi though-- more legal costs he had to pay.

    Quote from axil

    Jed. I don't want to argue.

    You cannot argue! You do not know a damn thing, because you have read nothing. You might as well argue with me about the plot of an untranslated Japanese novel.

    Quote from axil

    The end of October is approaching. Rossi indicates that he is coming to the end of his development. I will leave the Rossi trial in the past and give you benefit of my open mine in consideration of this last demo.

    You cannot give me the benefit of the doubt. You have no right to any opinion about an experiment you have not read and you know nothing about.

    Quote from [email protected]

    Wasn't the Penon report written by Penon, issued by Penon?

    Penon is a certified idiot, and he is Rossi's labdog. Rossi "collected" the data -- meaning he made up most of it. He wrote the report and he uploaded it to the trial docket, so obviously he stands by it. This is, as I said, the one and only description of any experiment that Rossi has ever published, and it is garbage. If you are looking to evaluate Rossi's work according to what Rossi himself said, this is the only evidence you will find.


    That is why Axil refuses to read it. He prefers to predicate his word-salad on his own imaginary version of Rossi's work, rather than a version that Rossi himself provided.

    Quote from Wyttenbach

    Did You ever see the quarerly (as mentionned in the contract) Penon reports? What do these say? Why did IH not complain about them ???

    AFAIK, the quarterly reports had the same data as the final report.


    IH did complain about them! Loudly. Often. To Rossi, to me, and to several other people. Have you seen the data? Have you read the Penon report? Anyone with a half a brain can see the data is fake and the instruments and configuration are a farce. Who wouldn't complain about that?

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