Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

Quote

Hey Mary: Can you please compile a list of all the people that Rossi bamboozled?

Sure --those that matter anyway -- but I already did it many times so I won't do it again. Basically, the ones that matter are the blind mice (Swedish professors) and Levi. Folks like you being bamboozled make no difference. Dr. Brian Josephson used to stand out as an exceptional bamboozlee but I suspect that by now, even he doesn't believe that Rossi has the goods. I'm not sure. It's been a year or more since we exchanged emails.

Quote

especially the highly trained scientists? All those people with reality distortion fields is going to make such an amazing accomplishment for the most ingenius scam artist, ever.

Hardly. It's just an every day low level technology con job scam. Scientists are often too trusting and gullible, especially when the claim is something they want to believe. Anyway, I am not sure anyone has been completely fooled by Rossi except for the usual enthusiasts on forums like this one and e-catworld.com. Most people with real scientific credentials held back with such terminology as "it seems anomalous" or "more work is needed." That is what Essen and Kullander wrote. According to Dewey, Darden considered Rossi an extremely high risk and one can argue whether he was simply negligent with investor funds (and his own) or gullible. Levi is not a highly trained scientist, at least not from his status (assistant professor for going on two decades) and because he has essentially no papers of his own in a scientific field. Rossi is no genius. As we said many times, he's clever at choosing his marks (targets) and at telling them what they want to hear. He has also been exceptionally lucky -- at least until he ran into the Industrial Heat deal.

If anyone ever gives Rossi money again, that person is certifiable.

Quote from maryyugo

If anyone ever gives Rossi money again, that person is certifiable.

So if Rossi were to invite someone a tad more trustworthy than you but just as critical, what tools would you bring to a Rossi black box test? What tests would you perform? In the past I have had interactions with skeptopaths who have said that a "real" skeptic would refuse to do any testing that did not include opening up the box. Might I suggest bringing a box filled with plutonium to such a test to see how much heat gets generated and whether you can detect radiation, you know, as a control.

Quote from SSC

Kev, Rossi was acquitted of all charges he had received in the past and the time he spent in jail was stolen to him because of unfounded charges. I don't know if there has been a correction on Wikipedia about these topics, but if anyone had initially wrote there that Rossi had been accused without specifying also that he had been cleared, then it is right that these claims were correct on Wikipedia. If you want a proof of his acquittal, you can see this link, which shows you an article of November 2004 whose title says "Recycling toxic waste: Andrea Rossi acquitted":

https://drive.google.com/open?…HMDd6bUQwcVZPM0pfOXNnNldR

Prior to Rossi threatening to sue Wikipedia, that article about "recycling toxic waste" didn't last more than a day or so on his Wikipedia page. Rossi was not acquitted on all charges, he was found guilty on tax evasion. Basically that's the Miss Congeniality/Participation Award prize for the prosecutors because they lost on all the other charges. Rossi was certainly not convicted of defrauding himself as the sole investor in Petroldragon.

Quote from kirkshanahan

Are you a sock puppet of Jed? What is it about the fact that 148 of those were published _before_ my 2002 paper came out and thus can’t have dealt with the CCS/ATER issue that you can’t grasp?

Oh, that's simple. I generally ignore about 95% of what you write, now that I have you figured out as a crackpot. But I hope Jed uploads those wonderous papers that you intend to give him permission for LENR-CANR.org.

Quote

So if Rossi were to invite someone a tad more trustworthy than you but just as critical, what tools would you bring to a Rossi black box test? What tests would you perform? I

You're asking that NOW? Which rock did you just crawl out from under? It's been discussed extensively since 2011 in all sorts of forums including this one! In brief, the original ecats would have best been tested by collecting and sparging the steam they produced. The heat exchanger ("ottoman") ecat needed to have been tested with properly placed thermocouples. The hot cats could have best been tested by using mass flow calorimetry in a forced cooling systen (see Giancarlo et. al. which I cited ad nauseam here before. And all of these tests should have been done with proper calibrations and with power sources provided by independent (or as Rossisays "indipendent") experimenters. Of course, Rossi studiously and carefully avoided any of these necessities, most especially proper calibration and independent measurement of his input power. The one time he allowed that (Swedish Tech Institute) the ecat did not work. Like you really read this forum?

Quote

in the past I have had interactions with skeptopaths who have said that a "real" skeptic would refuse to do any testing that did not include opening up the box.

I suppose you can find someone who will say just about anything! That is complete garbage. If a box provides a substantial source of energy in a suitable form (heat, light, electricity), it can be measured iin straightforward ways with no need to see what's inside. The difficulty of the measurement changes with many factors. And a major one is constraints on the choice of measuring methods like Rossi apparently forced on the blind mice. By forced, I mean that he probably implied strongly that if they did not go with his program, they would not be permitted to do the test.

Quote

Might I suggest bringing a box filled with plutonium to such a test to see how much heat gets generated and whether you can detect radiation, you know, as a control.

WTF does that nonsense crap even mean? [insults deserved here but redacted out of consideration for the hosts]

Quote

[email protected] wrote: Oh, that's simple. I generally ignore about 95% of what you write, now that I have you figured out as a crackpot. But I hope Jed uploads those wonderous papers that you intend to give him permission for LENR-CANR.org.

Shanahan: Gotta be another Jed....

Sorry but that is unfair. Jed is an overoptimistic advocate for his views and I can't agree with his habit of hyping facts which he can't follow up. But he means well and he is both educated and intelligent. kevmolen is just a troll and not a very effective one, He does not seem to have even the most basic skills of comprehension, reasoning and debate. Infuriating and arrogant as he can sometimes be, Jed is most assuredly not similar to kev in those areas. IMHO of course.

Quote

Mary wash your mouth before talking about Focardi. Focardi was a highly competent and experienced physicist, a professor emeritus of physics at the University of Bologna, he was chair of the Faculty of Mathematical, Physical and Natural Sciences of Bologna and directed the Bolognese section of the National Institute of Nuclear Physics . Such a person doesn't let anyone bamboozle him, he is perfectly able to distinguish a revolutionary object from a base scam. Anyone who is less biased than you would think that Focardi's word is a proof of the truthfulness of the E-cat's operation. Instead you discredit Focardi, who has a knowledge of physics and an experience far far superior to yours, just to support your theory. I do not know who you think you are ... but you are not that.

Rossi's fraud is grossly self-evident. I suspect that by now, Focardi himself could have been convinced of it and would not have been willing to defend Rossi at a trial. I know about Focardi's considerable credentials and productive past. Unfortunately, to quote Mohammed Ali, the great boxing champ, "Age takes all our assets." And conscienceless con man Rossi took every advantage of Focardi's desire to see Ni-H fusion succeed and of his declining discrimination and fact checking abilities. Focardi trusted Rossi and trusted that Rossi was honest and telling him the truth. Big mistake. As to the rest of the crap you wrote, it doesn't deserve comment.

Quote

Unfair to Jed, or to Kevin?

Aw, c'mon. I'm on your side. But Kevin is a troll and Jed is a contributor. He can be obnoxious but he at least attempts to stay on topic and make points. You may disagree with him but he is internally consistent and addresses the issues. I don't recall Kevin ever doing that. Him and ele and Siffer and several others that crop from time to time. Completely irrational and mostly incoherent. IMHO of course.

I can't recall Kevin ever saying anything that even meant anything or contributed in any way. Did I miss it?

Quote from JedRothwell

Let me point out once again, for the last time,

Oh, good.   Then let me point out yet another time that you're simply wrong, having this much evidence, what the skeptopaths love to call "proof" of Rossi's fraud, all tied up so neatly in a bow for criminal investigators to simply file an arrest warrant on, well it is extremely rare and they wouldn't pass up the chance if there was such good evidence.   But there is not such good evidence, which is why they have not filed charges against Rossi.  

there is nothing special about evidence in a court document.

Wrong.   Even Judge Wapner one time, when he thought he saw evidence of perjury and fraud, referred the matter to criminal authorities.   Judges are sensitive to being accused of malfeasance.

It is not more blatant, more obvious, or more likely to attract police attention than the evidence found in most other white collar criminal cases,

Wrong.   Boy am I glad this is the last time you'll be bringing that up.   

such as the deed to a house you did not own that you sold to someone. There is no reason to think the police would make this a priority just because the evidence is in a court docket.

There is a ton of reasons, the judge not wanting to be shown to be malfeasant being among them.   Those fraud investigators have a lot of work to do, so when it's all wrapped up and ready to go they appreciate a bluebird now and again, like anyone would.  

Also --

All court dockets are crammed with lies. They have to be, since both sides cannot be telling the truth in a dispute. The two sides tell opposite stories, or there would be no dispute. One side or the other has to be lying.

I agree.   However, when there is so much vehemence attached to Rossi saying there's "proof" of his fraud and lies and how he should be in jail, it naturally comes up how full of bullshit such remarks are.   

Finally --

Anyone with half a brain can see that Rossi was lying.

The judge has more than half a brain and, in order to avoid accusations of malfeasance, will no doubt be referring Rossi to the authorities for perjury in 3...2...1...well, never.   

He repeatedly claimed that he consulted with the owners of the fake JM Company, He himself was the sole owner!

Sounds so compelling.   Maybe one of the skeptopathic Rossi haters around here can get off their ass and pick up the phone to alert criminal authorities to his perjury and fraud.   I mean, they hinted they would call the IRS, didn't they?   So SURELY there is enough evidence for a phone call from one of these haters?   

He was talking to himself, and pretending it was someone else. He admits that in the deposition. If that isn't lying, what would be? Whether this and the other stuff he did constitute a crime that warrants prosecution I cannot say, but it is a crime.

Oh, so you can't say if it's a crime but it's a crime.   I say IT IS A CRIME!   Pick up the phone and haul Rossi's ass to jail or stop calling it a crime.   You guys are slinging so much bullshit we might as well start using it as fertilizer.

Display More

Quote from maryyugo

Aw, c'mon. I'm on your side. But Kevin is a troll and Jed is a contributor. He can be obnoxious but he at least attempts to stay on topic and make points. I can't recall Kevin ever saying anything that even meant anything or contributed in any way. Did I miss it?

If you think I'm a troll then you should stay off the replication thread I started. Yup, that would be a real good start.

Quote from maryyugo

Rossi's fraud is grossly self-evident. I suspect that by now, Focardi himself could have been convinced of it and would not have been willing to defend Rossi at a trial. I know about Focardi's considerable credentials and productive past. Unfortunately, to quote Mohammed Ali, the great boxing champ, "Age takes all our assets." And conscienceless con man Rossi took every advantage of Focardi's desire to see Ni-H fusion succeed and of his declining discrimination and fact checking abilities. Focardi trusted Rossi and trusted that Rossi was honest and telling him the truth. Big mistake. As to the rest of the crap you wrote, it doesn't deserve comment.

If Rossi's fraud is so grossly self-evident then pick up the phone and call the criminal authorities for immediate arrest of the con man. You don't because you know that what you're writing is pure rhetorical bullshit. You lead off with "I suspect by now" which is a hypothetical but it is no hypothetical that Rossi is not in jail for criminal fraud right now. Occham's Razor prevails, the best evidence concept is moving forward on skeptopathy.

Quote

Quote Kevmo: If it were applied to Dolly the sheep, all you guys would be calling for those clone claimants to be in jail.

Louis Reed: Cloning has low statistical probability (like the probability an alpha is deflected 180 degrees by gold foil), but the statistics are reproducible, and the success is unequivocal. Not so for cold fusion.

Thing is, you can point to a sheep. Even if it's only one sheep (and it's more now, of course). And you can analyze the sheep's DNA. There is no LENR sheep. That's why I keep asking for a self-sustaining cell or a powerful reactor, always to no avail or only to receive murky data that doesn't prove the claim. Remember the old lady in the Wendy's commercial who kept asking, "Where's the beef?" Well, my complaint about LENR from now on will be "Where is the f'n sheep?"

Here is the original 30 second spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0

Kev wrote:

Quote

Pick up the phone and haul Rossi's ass to jail or stop calling it a crime.

This is what I mean by what I said about this person's posting earlier. I'm sure it's a citizen's job to haul criminals off to jail. By picking up the phone of course. So if you see a hit and run accident and thirty people are on their cell phones and call it in and you don't, you have to stop calling it a crime. Typical Ken logic and coherence. I've already posted many many times that several people I communicate with personally have reported Rossi's fraud to multiple authorities in Florida and to the IRS.