Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • Ele/SSC,


    Were Rossi/IH happily making billions now off Ecat sales, or had Rossi started selling the LT 1MW's after the settlement, we would not be discussing Rossi's prior history now. Whatever it was, and however messy, it would no longer be an issue other than for the history books. He would just be another crazy inventor with a colorful past.


    As it is though, he shelved his proven Ecat model that had been laboriously developed for 6 years, industrially certificated, ready for market, all because it is now "obsolete", and "customers want the QX now instead". So naturally his past comes back under scrutiny after such a bone headed move as that. And it is not very pretty.


    I looked up Rossi's version of Petroldragon on his:


    http://andrea-rossi.com/rossi-invention-publication/


    and note below in " " some of the common emotional appeal themes he employed with both Petroldragon, and the Ecat/IH/Doral:


    Free energy (Ecat): "Rossi had built a facility that could generate several tons of fuel oil every single day. The plant was self-sustaining, generating its own energy for all processes. And, he could produce this oil boom for 30% less than fossil fuels."


    Tirelessly working to save planet (worked 18 hours a day at Doral): "Rossi’s ability to work long, exhausting hours in unpopular matters resulted in a process and product that could save the planet from the waste and abuse of Man."


    Dark forces wanting his IP (Rossi refused working with NASA/Boeing/NI because of IP fears): "Industries all over Italy clamored for one of his biomass plants. Several times, Rossi discovered that potential partners were only trying to buy his technology in order to bury it."


    Loyalty not returned (IH giving his tech to competitors): "President Jimmy Carter offered him a lifetime visa to come to the United States and bring his technology with him. But, Rossi chose to remain faithful to his home country. It’s too bad his country did not share such loyalty. Almost from the beginning, he would find evidence of sabotage in various plants."


    I love this last one because it may be Rossi's cover for his gold smuggling operation. It is funny how he slips this into his story. It is like -hey, BTW Petroldragon also produced gold. Anyway, here is the quote from his website: "Ever the entrepreneur, when Rossi discovered that silver and gold were obtained through the refining process, he began a jewelry business. That proved to be a mistake, because the government saw that as a form of tax evasion."


    So Rossi admits having had heavy demand for Petroldragon's technology back then, and we know he had heavy demand for the Ecat, yet for both techs he made no money because of IP fears, disloyalty, dark forces against him, etc...convenient excuses if you ask me, for covering up the fact that both technologies were scams.

  • Science is not a faith nor a religion.


    That's what I said in past, a parrot can repeat but you support claims based on faith.

    Where are the due scientific and verifiable evidences after 10 years of Rossi's "says"?

    Papers and TPRs (full of "mistakes") written and signed by members of his clan are not.


    Quote

    You simply dismiss all technology tests by Rossi without any motivation as only an adept to religion would dismiss what he believes to be heresies.

    And of course you also omit that there are is a group that is doing research in that field, as an adept (but most probably just a poor man with an agenda) you select just what confirms your thesis.


    "technology" ? :D

    "Rossi's tests" are not Science, they are fictions.

    A "group", who are? The members (old and new) of Rossi's clan? LOL


    My agenda is simply to respect and defend the true Science and the scientific method, not live to support hoax like you.

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • So Rossi admits having had heavy demand for Petroldragon's technology


    There is vanishingly little interest in waste-to-oil conversion systems, even clean ones. If you don't know about this tech (and are interested) look up 'Bionic' technology in Germany. Good clean process, smart inventor (Dr. Heinz Breummer) but no commercial takers. And if you are really interested, I'll tell you what the problems are.

  • Papers and TPRs (full of "mistakes") written and signed by members of his clan are not.

    There is no Rossi's clan. The papers were signed by University Professors and the Swedish group is making research in that topic as Alan referred.

    A "group", who are? The members (old and new) of Rossi's clan? LOL

    Insulting people will not make you right. Normally who insults others have no arguments.

  • it may be Rossi's cover for his gold smuggling operation.

    There was no smuggling and Rossi was completely cleared also by that false accusation.

    If you would take time to read the italian version of the site you would read that:

    "

    All’inizio del processo il Magistrato inquirente si era vantato di aver raccolto contro Andrea Rossi 120.000 pagine di atti, ed aveva annunciato alla pubblica piazza richieste di pene severissime, nell’ordine dei 20 anni di galera. Evidentemente le sue erano 120.000 pagine di argomenti poco consistenti, visto che il Giudice già in Primo Grado assolse me e Pizzato da tutti i reati per i quali eravamo stati arrestati ed incarcerati e chiese solo pochi mesi di condanna per semplici irregolarità contabili, condanna poi completamente annullata in sede di Appello.

    "


    That translated (google) is:

    "

    At the beginning of the trial, the Investigating Magistrate bragged that he had filed against Andrea Rossi 120,000 pages of acts, and had announced to the public plain requests for severe penalties, in the order of 20 years of jail.

    Evidently they were 120,000 pages of inconsistent arguments, because the First Instance Judge already acquitted me and Pizzato from all the offenses for which we were arrested and imprisoned and asked only a few months of conviction for simple accounting irregularities, condemns then completely canceled in Appeal .


    "

    So as you can see Rossi there was no gold smuggling .

  • There is NO relation beetween Petroldragon and ECAT. The two stories are completely different.

    In Italy Rossi was persecuted by corrupt elements of the Guardia di Finanza.


    In Italy, as it is to a lesser extent in the USA the garbage business under the influence of some very dubious entities. Italian gangs like the Calabrian N'ghedra are active in the recycling (and dumping) business as far north as Milan. I suspect that they had some influence over the Petrolfragon affair, but not in a good way.

  • There is NO relation beetween Petroldragon and ECAT. The two stories are completely different.

    In Italy Rossi was persecuted by corrupt elements of the Guardia di Finanza.


    Ele,


    Considering you do not think Doral was a scam, and I know it was, it does not surprise me that we disagree on Petroldragon vs Ecat. While there may be a huge difference in terms of the claimed technology between Petroldragon -a biomass conversion technology that was cutting edge at the time, and the Ecat -cutting edge NiH LENR even now, there are similarities in what I would call Rossi's "modus operandi", as I pointed out above.


    Both a novel, advanced technology for their time, that would greatly alter the world's geopolitical energy landscape if real. Yet, in both cases Rossi...the ever tireless worker, save the planet type, suffered disloyalties by partners (Italy/IH), and refused selling his product and making billions so that the "dark forces could not buy and then bury the technology".


    Opting instead to develop his products alone so as to "protect the IP", and in the process making a real mess of it. While Rossi has twice now (3 times if you count the DOD TE's) missed out on converting his inventions into the billions that, if legitimate, they rightly deserved -making him perhaps the most incompetent inventor/businessman ever, he has developed a knack for convincing juries, and fans with his David vs Goliath, overcoming diversity themes.


    Rossi could have easily avoided much of his legal mess in Italy had he simply proven his biomass plant worked as he said it would. He could have arranged for a team of experts to attend a test, with the public/reporters invited, and if it worked, the prosecutor would have almost no case. But Rossi did not do that. Almost the exact same scenario with his Ecat. After Doral, all he had to do to resolve the dispute with IH, and get his $89 million...quickly followed by billions more, was to prove it worked, So simple.

  • There is no Rossi's clan. The papers were signed by University Professors and the Swedish group is making research in that topic as Alan referred.

    Insulting people will not make you right. Normally who insults others have no arguments.


    And then?

    Anyone knows that also professors make mistakes.


    Who claim on web his miracolistic and disruptive technology from 10 years without scientific evidences?


    Did Alan referred about Rossi's group researches?

    Yes?

    What? Where are the evidences?

    (no words or speculations, but verifiable proofs)


    Show these proves or your word are like chatters.

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • Where are the due scientific and verifiable evidences after 10 years of Rossi's "says"?


    Papers and TPRs (full of "mistakes") written and signed by members of his clan are not.

    Which clan? Mr. Cook, the Swedish professors, Gullstrom, Levi, Focardi ... do you think they're all part of a clan created to tease people? In recent years, Rossi's technology has been tested by various people, all competent, and the results obtained were positive. I'm sorry for you if you can not accept this reality, but I think it's a problem of yours.

  • Which clan? Mr. Cook, the Swedish professors, Gullstrom, Levi, Focardi ... do you think they're all part of a clan created to tease people? In recent years, Rossi's technology has been tested by various people, all competent, and the results obtained were positive. I'm sorry for you if you can not accept this reality, but I think it's a problem of yours.



    Nobody of those professors produced scientific evidence neither independent verification.

    Cook (Department of Informatics :D ) wrote just another miracolistic "nuclear theory", none verifiable proof has been provides of his claim.

    Peer review buried TPRs because they contain big errors. So what technology are you talking?

    If you don't see the lacking of substance during all these years it's really a yours problem.

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • A

    "Dr. Qin comes to Rimon from Industrial Heat, a start-up company engaged in nuclear energy research and development, where she served as in-house counsel. In that role, Dr. Qin worked with the engineering team to establish the company’s IP program, developing a multi-prong IP strategy aimed at protecting the company’s interests in its innovations and trade secrets."


    B

    "Dr. Qin has many years of experience as a patent attorney handling all aspects of patent prosecution and procurement for Fortune 500 companies, universities, start-ups, and individual inventors. Prior to joining Stein IP, Dr. Qin was an in-house counsel at a start-up company engaged in nuclear energy research and development. As an in-house counsel, Letao helped establish the company’s IP program and built from scratch a sizable patent portfolio, Dr. Qin also worked at two IP boutique law firms where her practice focused on electrical and telecommunication technologies, computer software, optical instruments, and medical devices."


    C

    "Before joining the legal profession, Dr. Qin worked at two leading engineering companies, IBM and Nortel Networks, as a computer engineer for a number of years. Dr. Qin holds a doctorate in astrophysics and studied under Dr. Tsuruta, who was one of the very few female astrophysicists in the 1940s and after whom a neutron star was named. In graduate school at Montana State University, Dr. Qin was involved in the astrophysics research group and received her doctoral degree after her pioneer work studying effects of strong magnetic fields on neutron star thermal evolution. She attended the extremely competitive University of Science and Technology of China, after ranking second in the Hunan province on the National College Entrance Exam. She received her B.S. in physics from the University of Science and Technology of China and her J.D. from Boston College Law School, cum laude. She is a member of the Massachusetts bar and the USPTO. Letao is a native of China. She speaks and writes Mandarin fluently."

  • In Italy, as it is to a lesser extent in the USA the garbage business under the influence of some very dubious entities. Italian gangs like the Calabrian N'ghedra are active in the recycling (and dumping) business as far north as Milan. I suspect that they had some influence over the Petrolfragon affair, but not in a good way.


    Alan,


    I agree with everything you said except the last part: "they (organized crime) had some influence over the Petroldrago affair, but not in a good way". It could very well be *they* were in on it with Rossi. I could make a good argument for that, but something tells me it would not be well received by the mods.

  • In Italy, as it is to a lesser extent in the USA the garbage business under the influence of some very dubious entities. Italian gangs like the Calabrian N'ghedra are active in the recycling (and dumping) business as far north as Milan. I suspect that they had some influence over the Petrolfragon affair, but not in a good way.

    Yes exactly, Rossi probably was disturbing those criminal gangs and payed a price for that.

  • Which mistakes ? Which errors ?

    The only to see those "errors and mistakes" are the people with an agenda and/or pathoskeptic.


    Double LOL! It seems that you never read critics about TPRs. I suggest do it, obviously if you are able to understand the matter.

    Oh, sorry this is not in the agenda of hoax supporters :D :D :D

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • Considering you do not think Doral was a scam, and I know it was,

    Did you really know that ? Show the proofs !

    Should I remind you that the Doral test was perfectly ok for IH during all the year and that Darden had invited investors and rose money from it ?


    And again Rossi was found innocent. No crimes. So all your post is a complete nonsense and a false reasoning.

  • Double LOL! It seems that you never read critics about TPRs.

    Oh yes I have read that critics and even read the critics to that. All the critics to the TPRs resulted to be just garbage.

    I see that you find all that very funny but I think that is quite serious.

    I should remember you that IH before paying 11 M$ had done its own test with positive resuts?

  • I should remember you that IH before paying 11 M$ had done its own test with positive resuts?


    This is the world ele, sometimes also scammers and fraudsters get money when meet the appropriate deceiveable subject.

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • @DW


    You MUST have decent trade secrets to protect them. You MUST have a PhD astrophysicist IP attorney fluent in mandarin to secure them in China. You MUST have an in house chemical squad to round off technical corners. I don't love narratives arranged in retrospect.


    http://h1bdata.info/lca.php?id…OR%20ANALYTICAL%20CHEMIST

    End Date (mm/dd/yyyy) 08/31/2019 
  • Quote
    • Kenneth Kocher September 1, 2017 at 8:33 PM

      Dear Dr Andrea Rossi:


      1- On your quest to achieve Sigma 5 stability, how far along do you think you are: 25,50,75% or more?


      2- Who decides when Sigma 5 has been achieved?


    Quote


    Is this the Sigma 5 calculation procedure of his Mathematical calcula?


    Images

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    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • And you would be totally wrong to imply such a thing anyway.

    Indeed. AR is nobody's puppet. He is the puppet master organizing his own scams/shows supported by sock puppetry, ventriloquism, clownerie, and magic tricks. I'm sure I left out a few things. ;) Say what you want about him, but he is the captain of his own ship.