Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

  • You are anticipating the future! You are a Psychic!

    Very easy to anticipate is that independently from the number of arguments, soundness of proofs and people and Institutions involved you and others trolls and haters will be here to defend your only Pure Science.


    No, simply I look back to past comics, "papers", "demos", "TPRs" of years 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, ... stuff for psychopathology.

    True Science is the opposite to these comics.

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • No, simply I look back to past comics, "papers", "demos", "TPRs" of years 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, ... stuff for psychopathology.

    True Science is the opposite to these comics.

    True science always takes so many years for affirmation while scams do not last so long. If Rossi did not have anything in his hand, his game would stop long before. Moreover, what is requiring time in this case is not Science, but it is technology, that is, putting into practice a principle that may still be unknown. But I do not expect you to understand this difference, all you can do is spend your time reading JONP's comments with extreme interest, pretending it's just for fun. If you really were sure that this was all foolishness, you'd devote yourself to something else.

  • Madoff's scheme went on 10 years and netted $64 *billion*. Rossi is small potatoes. Barely a dot on the landscape. As for Rossi's ridiculously misnamed blog, I have not looked at it in any detail for at least two years. As I've said many times and apparently you failed to grasp, I am very confident, in your words, that Rossi's claims are all foolishness -- that is to say fraud. KNOWING fraud. My interest in LENR is broader by far than Rossi. I am interested in any claims to LENR but especially convincing ones of high power output with low or no input.

  • Moreover, what is requiring time in this case is not Science, but it is technology,

    Good point, as is so often put into the phrase "I'll believe it when...." ... when they see flying cars, when they see a cup of coffee (already done) .... when they see $10/month energy bills, etc. It is all a form of argument that they won't believe it until they see it in production just like when the Wright brothers were flying around Huffman Prarie but no one believed them... But they refuse to look at the evidence of >150 replications in peer reviewed literature at more than 180 labs and in more than 14,000 instances.


    The difference between scientific fact (Wright brothers flight 2003) and production (Wright brothers demo to US Army 2008) is a whole lotta bullshit and pain.

  • True Science

    Science is not a faith nor a religion.

    You simply dismiss all technology tests by Rossi without any motivation as only an adept to religion would dismiss what he believes to be heresies.

    And of course you also omit that there are is a group that is doing research in that field, as an adept (but most probably just a poor man with an agenda) you select just what confirms your thesis.

  • Madoff's scheme went on 10 years and netted $64 *billion*. Rossi is small potatoes.

    Rossi has nothing to do with Madoff.

    Rossi is not operating in financial markets but as an Industrial inventor. IH has done its own test with positive results before paying 11 M$.

    As usual you mix up things and follow your paranoia.

  • Ele/SSC,


    Were Rossi/IH happily making billions now off Ecat sales, or had Rossi started selling the LT 1MW's after the settlement, we would not be discussing Rossi's prior history now. Whatever it was, and however messy, it would no longer be an issue other than for the history books. He would just be another crazy inventor with a colorful past.


    As it is though, he shelved his proven Ecat model that had been laboriously developed for 6 years, industrially certificated, ready for market, all because it is now "obsolete", and "customers want the QX now instead". So naturally his past comes back under scrutiny after such a bone headed move as that. And it is not very pretty.


    I looked up Rossi's version of Petroldragon on his:


    http://andrea-rossi.com/rossi-invention-publication/


    and note below in " " some of the common emotional appeal themes he employed with both Petroldragon, and the Ecat/IH/Doral:


    Free energy (Ecat): "Rossi had built a facility that could generate several tons of fuel oil every single day. The plant was self-sustaining, generating its own energy for all processes. And, he could produce this oil boom for 30% less than fossil fuels."


    Tirelessly working to save planet (worked 18 hours a day at Doral): "Rossi’s ability to work long, exhausting hours in unpopular matters resulted in a process and product that could save the planet from the waste and abuse of Man."


    Dark forces wanting his IP (Rossi refused working with NASA/Boeing/NI because of IP fears): "Industries all over Italy clamored for one of his biomass plants. Several times, Rossi discovered that potential partners were only trying to buy his technology in order to bury it."


    Loyalty not returned (IH giving his tech to competitors): "President Jimmy Carter offered him a lifetime visa to come to the United States and bring his technology with him. But, Rossi chose to remain faithful to his home country. It’s too bad his country did not share such loyalty. Almost from the beginning, he would find evidence of sabotage in various plants."


    I love this last one because it may be Rossi's cover for his gold smuggling operation. It is funny how he slips this into his story. It is like -hey, BTW Petroldragon also produced gold. Anyway, here is the quote from his website: "Ever the entrepreneur, when Rossi discovered that silver and gold were obtained through the refining process, he began a jewelry business. That proved to be a mistake, because the government saw that as a form of tax evasion."


    So Rossi admits having had heavy demand for Petroldragon's technology back then, and we know he had heavy demand for the Ecat, yet for both techs he made no money because of IP fears, disloyalty, dark forces against him, etc...convenient excuses if you ask me, for covering up the fact that both technologies were scams.

  • Science is not a faith nor a religion.


    That's what I said in past, a parrot can repeat but you support claims based on faith.

    Where are the due scientific and verifiable evidences after 10 years of Rossi's "says"?

    Papers and TPRs (full of "mistakes") written and signed by members of his clan are not.


    Quote

    You simply dismiss all technology tests by Rossi without any motivation as only an adept to religion would dismiss what he believes to be heresies.

    And of course you also omit that there are is a group that is doing research in that field, as an adept (but most probably just a poor man with an agenda) you select just what confirms your thesis.


    "technology" ? :D

    "Rossi's tests" are not Science, they are fictions.

    A "group", who are? The members (old and new) of Rossi's clan? LOL


    My agenda is simply to respect and defend the true Science and the scientific method, not live to support hoax like you.

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

  • So Rossi admits having had heavy demand for Petroldragon's technology


    There is vanishingly little interest in waste-to-oil conversion systems, even clean ones. If you don't know about this tech (and are interested) look up 'Bionic' technology in Germany. Good clean process, smart inventor (Dr. Heinz Breummer) but no commercial takers. And if you are really interested, I'll tell you what the problems are.

  • Papers and TPRs (full of "mistakes") written and signed by members of his clan are not.

    There is no Rossi's clan. The papers were signed by University Professors and the Swedish group is making research in that topic as Alan referred.

    A "group", who are? The members (old and new) of Rossi's clan? LOL

    Insulting people will not make you right. Normally who insults others have no arguments.

  • it may be Rossi's cover for his gold smuggling operation.

    There was no smuggling and Rossi was completely cleared also by that false accusation.

    If you would take time to read the italian version of the site you would read that:

    "

    All’inizio del processo il Magistrato inquirente si era vantato di aver raccolto contro Andrea Rossi 120.000 pagine di atti, ed aveva annunciato alla pubblica piazza richieste di pene severissime, nell’ordine dei 20 anni di galera. Evidentemente le sue erano 120.000 pagine di argomenti poco consistenti, visto che il Giudice già in Primo Grado assolse me e Pizzato da tutti i reati per i quali eravamo stati arrestati ed incarcerati e chiese solo pochi mesi di condanna per semplici irregolarità contabili, condanna poi completamente annullata in sede di Appello.

    "


    That translated (google) is:

    "

    At the beginning of the trial, the Investigating Magistrate bragged that he had filed against Andrea Rossi 120,000 pages of acts, and had announced to the public plain requests for severe penalties, in the order of 20 years of jail.

    Evidently they were 120,000 pages of inconsistent arguments, because the First Instance Judge already acquitted me and Pizzato from all the offenses for which we were arrested and imprisoned and asked only a few months of conviction for simple accounting irregularities, condemns then completely canceled in Appeal .


    "

    So as you can see Rossi there was no gold smuggling .

  • There is NO relation beetween Petroldragon and ECAT. The two stories are completely different.

    In Italy Rossi was persecuted by corrupt elements of the Guardia di Finanza.


    In Italy, as it is to a lesser extent in the USA the garbage business under the influence of some very dubious entities. Italian gangs like the Calabrian N'ghedra are active in the recycling (and dumping) business as far north as Milan. I suspect that they had some influence over the Petrolfragon affair, but not in a good way.

  • There is NO relation beetween Petroldragon and ECAT. The two stories are completely different.

    In Italy Rossi was persecuted by corrupt elements of the Guardia di Finanza.


    Ele,


    Considering you do not think Doral was a scam, and I know it was, it does not surprise me that we disagree on Petroldragon vs Ecat. While there may be a huge difference in terms of the claimed technology between Petroldragon -a biomass conversion technology that was cutting edge at the time, and the Ecat -cutting edge NiH LENR even now, there are similarities in what I would call Rossi's "modus operandi", as I pointed out above.


    Both a novel, advanced technology for their time, that would greatly alter the world's geopolitical energy landscape if real. Yet, in both cases Rossi...the ever tireless worker, save the planet type, suffered disloyalties by partners (Italy/IH), and refused selling his product and making billions so that the "dark forces could not buy and then bury the technology".


    Opting instead to develop his products alone so as to "protect the IP", and in the process making a real mess of it. While Rossi has twice now (3 times if you count the DOD TE's) missed out on converting his inventions into the billions that, if legitimate, they rightly deserved -making him perhaps the most incompetent inventor/businessman ever, he has developed a knack for convincing juries, and fans with his David vs Goliath, overcoming diversity themes.


    Rossi could have easily avoided much of his legal mess in Italy had he simply proven his biomass plant worked as he said it would. He could have arranged for a team of experts to attend a test, with the public/reporters invited, and if it worked, the prosecutor would have almost no case. But Rossi did not do that. Almost the exact same scenario with his Ecat. After Doral, all he had to do to resolve the dispute with IH, and get his $89 million...quickly followed by billions more, was to prove it worked, So simple.