Rossi vs. Darden aftermath discussions

    Heh. When I first saw this image, I thought it was a new LENR reactor.

    Ele wrote: "

    Oh ho the Genius come in ! Tell me guru how hot is your plate ?

    Normal electric heaters go up to about 400 °C and in this (low) range of temperature the Lugano group successfully calibrated their instruments and found no artificial COP with the empty reactor.

    They even measured the emissivity of the Alumina on the pipes remember ?

    So I see that you are here to collect the applause of the professional anti Rossi team but I think that you have done wrong measurements !"


    I need no applause. I ask for no thanks.

    I have done many measurements, which gives the the experience to know when someone is bullshitting regarding that type of measurement.

    I only ask that the perpetuation of the myth of the correct use of total emissivity for the IR camera specific emissivity user function during the Lugano "reactor" test (and in addition the stupid reiteration nonsense using the total emissivity plot) be buried once and for. This simply requires that more people test the system. I have made dozens of suggestions of how this can be done cheaply and easily, but complex replications are also fine. They will all show, within a small amount of error, that the use of total emissivity for alumina is completely wrong in regards to IR camera measurement using less than the total IR band for temperature measurement.


    In my opinion, anyone clinging to the possibility that the use of total emissivity for anything that is not a true grey body or blackbody (which alumina and almost all similar materials are definitely not), has not actually tested the system, is intentionally obfuscating the truth, or worse.


    The biggest impediment for most people is obtaining an IR temperature measurement device that can go at least as high as 1000 C. Some folks are scared of, or too inexperienced with electricity to do some tests. But many are capable. I call upon these skilled folks to do some tests, and add their voice to the coming, and indeed inevitable chorus of "bullshit" in regards to the Lugano Report.


    I know that the Swedish scientists are fully capable of making a hot alumina tube, or square tile, and testing the emissivity with secondary temperature measurement to at least 1300 C. I triple dog dare them to do it.


    TT4N

    P

    The burden of proof is on you, ele. Please show a theory and replications of that theory by reputable, independent organizations to make your point. I also have papers I haven't posted links to yet which further prove my point.

    To return (briefly) to the topic of retirements, a reminder that Etiam Oy also quit recently- but they claim to have sold their IP on.


    "Dear LENR friends,



    It is our sorrowful duty to inform you that Etiam Ltd has been terminated as a company and all its operations have been discontinued.


    It has been a wonderful epoch for us to study and develop the machinery and reactive materials for LENR processes. On the other hand, it never fails to amaze us how difficult it is to find funding for the development of disruptive technology in Finland. Generally speaking, the funding of any R&D has taken a nosedive here during the past two years due to short-sighted budget cuts commanded by our sitting government.


    Etiam Ltd’s main intellectual property asset, specifically, the European patent EP 2783369 B1, granted on the 14th of June 2017, has been sold to the highest bidder.


    We sincerely thank you all the people and companies that have provided us with crucial support during the past several years. Sometimes the finish line is just too far to be reached in time. However, the dream will survive.


    Our research reports published during spring 2016 will remain in existence and hopefully will give some insight and ideas to people who will continue working with systems and processes related to LENR. Be resilient and hopeful. New and surprising phenomena are to be discovered in non-equilibrium physics on solid state surfaces.


    Any further inquiries related to the IP should be directed to the following e-mail address:


    [email protected]



    Sincerely,


    Etiam Ltd"

    SSC wrote:

    The theory written by Focardi is not at all devoided of any scientific basis! All the theories on LENRs are still hypotheses, otherwise we could read about LENRs in the most famous mainstream scientific journals. But that doesn't mean that these theories are unfounded, and what Focardi has written is perhaps not the right explanation for the functioning of the E-Cat, but it is not without foundation. Maybe Focardi has always tested the E-cat in the presence of Rossi, or maybe not .... how can you know that? Were you his assistant? Anyway, before he met Rossi, Focardi had already achieved several successes with cells built personally by him, so his confidence in the LENRs was not born with the E-Cat. What you say about the possibility that Focardi has been bamboozled by Rossi qualifies you as an ignorant who knows nothing about Focardi or about his research field, and who talks nonsense for the only purpose of insulting Rossi.



    Focardi was not a "theorical" and this is very evident reading what kind of stuff he wrote. The theory written by him is quite ridiculus because Ni+H=Cu nuclear fusion CS in that conditions, as known to any good scientists of nuclear Science (GAS), it's tiny (order of 10^-6 barns) and up to now proofs of that claimed fusion simply do not exist.


    As "experimenter", before to met and to be bambolized by Rossi, he made thermal measures based only on temperature (using high questionable calibration methods and so on) but nevertheless he claimed "excess heat". He never made a decent mass flow calorimetry test measuring the heat as due.

    It had been a great delusion, an old dreamer (emeritus-retired professor) and gullible, used by the hoaxer.

    JoNP means Journal of Null-Physics (the house of hoax,trickery, junk and psychopathological science).

    Alan Smith wrote:

    Hi Jed. My interaction with the now banned (for 2 weeks) 'Ascoli' had nothing to do with a debate on scientific ethics. The deleted post contained what could be considered - in almost any jurisdiction outside the USA - to be a criminal libel, repeated twice in the thin disguise of a question.

    I have not been following that discussion. I don't know anything about it. I meant that it is somewhat unethical for Levi et al. to ignore questions from McKubre.


    Libel is never criminal in the U.S. as far as I know. It is always a civil matter. I do not think it is a good idea to have the police involved. This web site is based in the U.S., so U.S. laws apply, and you don't need to worry about criminal libel.

    lenrisnotreal wrote:

    I understand your point. However, given that the hundreds of millions of dollars already invested in CF/LENR

    Where on earth did you get that estimate of hundreds of millions of dollars?!?


    A great deal of progress has been made in cold fusion. The tritium results from the National Cold Fusion Institute alone (Will et al.) are worth all the money invested so far. In a sane world, they would have convinced all scientists that the effect is real, and it is nuclear.

    lenrisnotreal wrote:

    There is not even a viable theory for this that I can find. Asking people to invest in this without an established theory as a starting point is not proper.

    There is no need for a theory to convince investors to fund a winning project. If a device works, it can be a great investment regardless of the reason it does it. In history there are so many cases of using a technology before its operation is fully understood, and this will happen other times. It is more likely that a scientist will not accept a new device unless he understands how it works, rather than a businessman could address this problem. But the negative advertising that always accompanies the LENR world will surely create distrust in investors. I hope that these prejudices may disappear over time.

    maryyugo wrote:

    So I figure your reasoning is: Rossi has been lying to everyone about everything since he started. But when it comes to the least likely claim he ever made, the QuarkX, he is telling the truth. Is that about it?

    No, I do not think that Rossi has lied over these years. He may have anticipated some events that, for various reasons, did not occur. The world in which he moves is very complex, it is made of projects that initially seem to work and then eventually end up badly (as in IH case). I think that in the past Rossi had anticipated news that then could not occur or maybe some projects required more time than expected. This can be seen as an excess of enthusiasm from him, certainly not as a lie. If you could not limit yourself to stalk Rossi, but you would also consider the lives of other entrepreneurs, you would realize that it is normal to take so long to be able to finish great projects like his. But I know that it is impossible for you to consider other lives but his one.

    maryyugo wrote:

    Nonsense. You think someone like Musk or Gates is going to give a sh*t about that crap if he's standing next to a megawatt plant churning out power and running a factory on a thimblefull of nickel and other cheap stuff and a whiff of hydrogen?

    I think people like Musk and Gates could never hear about Rossi if he ended up in jail for false accusations, as happened in the past. This is the most horrible method you can use to get rid of an entrepreneur, yet in Italy it is not a rare event. I hope that America is a more civilized country from this point of view, but the comment from Alan ('The only reason Andrea is still alive is nobody rakes him seriously') is not a nonsense at all.

    Shane D. wrote:

    For the past few days, Rossi has been writing the script for his exit strategy. He is going to stretch out the QX (amazing how we do not even talk about the LT's anymore...just as he wanted) for a long, long time, and slowly let it fade away. By the time you guys realize what happened, he will be enjoying retirement, and having a good laugh at how gullible people can be.

    If Rossi wanted to disappear from the scene with the money he earned, he could do it now: he has $ 11.5 million in his pocket and no obligation to make a new demo. QuarkX will be presented and afterwards it will be in production according to an appropriate timing (I know already that if it will not be on the market after a week you will start shouting that it is a scam .... I do not expect anything better). I think this demo scares very much Rossi's haters - do nothing but say that it will not happen, or that it will be a scam. So many criticisms for something that has yet to happen ...... is it a fixation?

    JedRothwell wrote:

    Libel is never criminal in the U.S. as far as I know. It is always a civil matter. I do not think it is a good idea to have the police involved. This web site is based in the U.S., so U.S. laws apply, and you don't need to worry about criminal libel.

    According to wiki 17 states have Criminal Defamation Laws. In Florida it's a misdemeanor Florida Statutes Chapter 836

    Lots of legal foo, but admins, note :

    Quote

    836.03 Owner or editor of the paper also guilty.—Any owner, manager, publisher or editor of any newspaper or other publication who permits any anonymous communication or communications such as is signed otherwise than with the true name of the writer, and such name published therewith to appear in the columns of the publication in which said communication any person is attacked in his or her good name, or it is attempted to bring disgrace or ridicule upon any person, such owner, manager, publisher or editor shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree

    Quote

    This can be seen as an excess of enthusiasm from him, certainly not as a lie.


    No. When you make claim after claim that you have accomplished something (made isotopes cheaply, started to build robotic factories, sold devices to customers, engaged "certificators" to get licensing, are purchasing a factory in Scandinavia, are supplying a megawatt of power to a large company daily, etc. etc.) and none of it happened, and it's done to get money from investors, it's lying, scamming, thieving, defrauding and bamboozling. And it does not happen with reputable entrepreneurs.


    Quote

    QuarkX will be presented and afterwards it will be in production according to an appropriate timing (I know already that if it will not be on the market after a week you will start shouting that it is a scam .... I do not expect anything better).

    *If* it is "presented," the QuarkX demo will be questionable, unclear, doubtful, and sketchy. Like all other Rossi demos, it will lack clarity and/or proper calibration and/or independent verification of input and output. As for production of the QuarkX, it will never happen just as production of the original steam ecat, the hot cat and various devices IH wanted like the "six cylinder" cat never happened. QuarkX will never be sold. Rossi will never test properly and if he ever is compelled to allow others to do as in the Swedish Technical Institute Test and IH's tests, the tests will show that the device does not work.

    JedRothwell wrote:

    Where on earth did you get that estimate of hundreds of millions of dollars?!?


    A great deal of progress has been made in cold fusion. The tritium results from the National Cold Fusion Institute alone (Will et al.) are worth all the money invested so far. In a sane world, they would have convinced all scientists that the effect is real, and it is nuclear.

    Did you even read the report from Coolescense(sp)? They had negative views of many CF/LENR claims including those of Miles. Not pointing specifically at any scientist but they do make errors from time to time. By adding up the total $ spent adjusted for inflation where I can find it and adding it up, I came up with at least $100million-$200million+ over the years. I believe IH alone claimed to have spent 10's of millions of dollars on this.

    SSC wrote:

    I think that in the past Rossi had anticipated news that then could not occur or maybe some projects required more time than expected. This can be seen as an excess of enthusiasm from him, certainly not as a lie. If you could not limit yourself to stalk Rossi,


    SSC,


    LOL's. Stalking Rossi...you got me! :) I was the one in the blue car he complained about, that he spotted through the 2 missing panes in the mezzazine (where the 1MW thermal was being vented). Reminds me; IHFB...where are you?


    Anyways, if you think that cheap tactic will throw me off the scent, you have another think coming. I spent 5 years building the man up, and it won't take me that long to tear him down. Your comment about him not lying is laughable. He has lied so many times I try to just remember the top 3. Just today I was reading Gary Wright's site (freeenergyscams" and was reminded of another: The many lies to his licensees, as recounted by the Italian partner Aldo Proia.


    BTW...I asked you many questions regarding Petroldragon (GW has the Italian video of Omar up), and you ignored them. One in particular: What do you think of the bio reactors capability to produce gold and silver from the waste oils? Enough Rossi claims on his "andrearossi.com", to have opened a jewelry store. What a coincidence the prosecutor accused Rossi of gold smuggling. The guy just seems to have a black cloud following him. :)

    SSC wrote:

    If Rossi wanted to disappear from the scene with the money he earned, he could do it now: he has $ 11.5 million in his pocket and no obligation to make a new demo. QuarkX will be presented and afterwards it will be in production according to an appropriate timing (I know already that if it will not be on the market after a week you will start shouting that it is a scam .... I do not expect anything better). I think this demo scares very much Rossi's haters - do nothing but say that it will not happen, or that it will be a scam. So many criticisms for something that has yet to happen ...... is it a fixation?


    SSC,


    He likes the limelight, and has a big ego. If he left now, even you would have to admit his scam. He wants to be like Papp, and go out in a way that will keep his fan base loyal, and go to the grave a legend...without actually proving a damn thing.


    My guess is that he only kept up the Doral warehouse lease to dispose of the incriminating evidence...ahem,, I mean the 1MW plant. That has been accomplished according to him, and now he is probably looking for a way to break the lease to save money. Once he does that, he will start reporting to JPR from his Miami condo "headquarters" as to how close he is to Sigma 5.


    How does it go from there....start reading JONP's archives from summer 2011. Just replace Ecat with QX.

    Paradigmnoia wrote:

    I have done many measurements, which gives the the experience to know when someone is bullshitting regarding that type of measurement.

    Yes and that the guy who is making error is you. You seem the one and the only to have done this test. But you forget that others have done this test also and do not publish the results simply because:

    1) The results say clearly that Total Emissivity is the parameter to use. (so is an obvious result)

    2) People don't want to feed Trolls like you.

    BTW we have done it and the result demonstrate that Lugano was correct, Now feel free to insult us as usual for Trolls.

    Paradigmnoia wrote:

    I only ask that the perpetuation of the myth of the correct use of total emissivity for the IR camera specific emissivity user function during the Lugano "reactor" test (and in addition the stupid reiteration nonsense using the total emissivity plot) be buried once and for.


    Is not a Myth (a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.) but a scientific fact.

    You are just asking serious people to feed you as Troll or other Trolls to pretend they had your same result.

    May competent IR-cam users correct me :

    • once the temperature of the surface is known, total emissivity is a good beginning, even if calibration of the full temperature range is a must.
    • For the settings of the IR-cam, the window emissivity is the one to use if you have nothing, even if the manufacturer advise to always calibrate

    calibration should be done up to maximum temperature because the material is not so simple.

    • For the IR emissivity it seems not too complex, as not far from 1 (far from 0.4/0.7). Anyway using TC to verify IR-cam measurement, or simply using eye-colorimetry would have answered
    • For total emissivity,
      • the material emissivity is itself very complex (great variation accross wavelength) ,
      • and moreover it may be slightly different from assumed (not pure alumina as stated, according to the manufacturer),
      • and contaminated on the surface, with a surface composition changing with temperature and history (baking, oxidation, evaporation, migration)
      • and the shape having impact on apparent emissivity (not sure on that point, if fins have impact)

    What is the most surprising is that given the 90/270Mn$ at stake no genius inventor have proposed to redo the test.

    That alone give me no doubt that either :

    • there was no desire to look credible
    • there was no possibility to look credible

    It is the same conclusion for the Florida show, where I consider that if it there is a real technology, it was a "magnificent" plot to deter the investor, like Rossi proudly claimed to Darden about his former Swedish partners, and get back the license. i don't believe this "magnificence" and prefer the Hanlon's razor.

    maryyugo wrote:

    No. When you make claim after claim that you have accomplished something (made isotopes cheaply, started to build robotic factories, sold devices to customers, engaged "certificators" to get licensing, are purchasing a factory in Scandinavia, are supplying a megawatt of power to a large company daily, etc. etc.) and none of it happened, and it's done to get money from investors, it's lying, scamming, thieving, defrauding and bamboozling. And it does not happen with reputable entrepreneurs.

    I think your "reputable entrepreneurs" do much worse on average. Anyway, how do you say none of it happened? What do you know about it? You have no confirmation either in one way or in the other, so your allegations are, as always, completely unfounded.

    maryyugo wrote:

    *If* it is "presented," the QuarkX demo will be questionable, unclear, doubtful, and sketchy.

    This is your true nature, Mary. Deny till the last moment, throw mud everywhere, even on an event that has not yet occurred. Reading your words is really a waste of time.

    Shane D. wrote:

    Anyways, if you think that cheap tactic will throw me off the scent, you have another think coming. I spent 5 years building the man up, and it won't take me that long to tear him down. Your comment about him not lying is laughable. He has lied so many times I try to just remember the top 3. Just today I was reading Gary Wright's site (freeenergyscams" and was reminded of another: The many lies to his licensees, as recounted by the Italian partner Aldo Proia.

    I was talking to Mary, not with you, so I do not understand the first sentence. Anyway I no longer see any difference between you and Mary, I really feel you as the same person. I've told you that if you really wanted to know the truth, you should also document elsewhere, but you still quote me Krivit and Gary Wright, the most sneaky and less objective people on Earth (along with Mary, of course). I have also said that Rossi has offered licensees the repayment of licenses in an convenient way. Some have accepted ..... if Proia did not do it, it is a problem of his.

    Quote

    What do you think of the bio reactors capability to produce gold and silver from the waste oils?


    You're saying a nonsense. The bio reactors were powered by waste, these wastes were selected and in this operation the small pieces of gold and silver (recovered from the electronic components found in the garbage) were stored. Initially, Petroldragon sold these precious items, then the idea of creating a company that worked and resold them as jewels was born. It is an example of Rossi's entrepreneurial ability, who has been able to create a completely new business starting from another revolutionary business. I do not expect you to understand it, you're too full of the rotten words of Krivit and his gang to be able to figure out how things went right in those years. And I'm tired of repeating the same thing. In the end, believe what you want ..... who cares!

    Shane D. wrote:

    He likes the limelight, and has a big ego. If he left now, even you would have to admit his scam. He wants to be like Papp, and go out in a way that will keep his fan base loyal, and go to the grave a legend...without actually proving a damn thing.

    He has already proved many things, tests that have been performed over the years on his devices have given very good results, results confirmed by professors who have been able to make measurements. Rossi does not escape now because he has no reason for doing it: he is now free from IH and can devote himself to the next demo and to the realization of his projects. I don't have to admit anything because the E-Cat is not and has never been a scam. Time will confirm what I say, the same time that I continue to lose by always saying the same things to the same people. Maybe you don't have anything else to do, instead I think I could spend better my days.... I'm beginning to find all this chatter a really useless and meaningless thing. I think I'll let you bark all alone, at least for a while ....

    Paradigmnoia wrote:

    Here is a good place to start:

    Mr Paradigmoia..... apparent means not real

    One have to use those formulas only if is using a completely different type of measurement (two narrow bands) that we use from space satellites in order to recalculate the actual (total) emissivity of the terrain ( and discover nice things like military installations ).

    You seem unable to understand that or most probably you don't want to!


    No more food for Trolls here babe !