IH, please do share your correct predictions. As for contributions to this forum, I can't hold a candle to the endless amounts of outlandish science fiction that you and your pro-Rossi colleagues have created in your desparate attempts to rationalize his antics. It is a substantial contribution indeed. In fact, I would say that you folks are far more creative than Rossi himself, who is a bit of a broken record.
Mats Lewan: Here is the Settlement
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The prototypical Rossi acolyte has little or no scientific acumen and somehow got sucked into this saga years ago.
That seems harsh, although there are some people who fit that description.
They have a great deal of ego riding on this. It took a lot of guts for former believers to bail on Rossi. It is basically admitting that you were scammed, and nobody likes to do that. That is why few scammers actually get sued or prosecuted. Their victims just disappear in shame.
That is true! There are many examples of this in history.
There is also this, attributed to Mark Twain: "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
How does tour thinking evolve if Rossi's device produces such intense subatomic particle production that no commercial applications of his technologies are possible?
We know they do not produce intense subatomic particles because Rossi and other observers are not dead. This is the original "cold fusion dead graduate student problem." There is no point is speculating that something might be true when it has been decisively disproved.
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So this case is legal proof that Rossi is NOT a fraud.
This case was never tried, so no conclusions can be reached from it. However, anyone with an ounce of common sense who examines the case docket files will see that Rossi is a fraud and a criminal. Just look at his fake companies! Anyone with technical knowledge who looks at the Penon report can see that it is fraudulent. The only question is: will law enforcement officials see him as bad enough to be worth prosecuting. I have no idea whether they will or not.
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We know they do not produce intense subatomic particles because Rossi and other observers are not dead. This is the original "cold fusion dead graduate student problem." There is no point is speculating that something might be true when it has been decisively disproved.
Most old timer experiments lacked the LENR reaction or at best these reactions were marginal and occurred for a very short time. LENR developers are now running experiments remotely. It is better to be safe than sorry.
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Dewey Weaver said :
QuoteEric - I'm not sure if the settlement is fully signed yet and all I'd like to say is a walkaway is a walkaway. It happened quickly and minutes before testimony was to begin. Everyone can reach their own conclusions.
We've moved on.
The unsigned draft (?) is indeed a walk-away for IH. They leave with the sole obligation not to reveal one additional element.
Rossi gets his IP back (maybe with a re-claim by Ampenergo), all the equipment, and everything paid by IH (the $11.5M, salary, expenses ...)
I reach my own conclusion that the posted settlement is at least close to the final signed document.
The only (known) discrepancy is that RossiSez the (final, signed) terms would never be revealed.QuoteDisplay MoreAndrea Rossi
July 6, 2017 at 4:48 AMMarco Serra:
Thank you for your sustain.
The settlement agreement is under NDA.
I made a toast with champagne because now I can return to dedicate myself full time to the development of the E-Cat/QuarkX.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
Still waiting on a joint release by the attorneys.
Curious that a 1/4 Billion dollar case (triple damages for Rossi) gets zero attention, even from Darden's hometown Triangle Business News. I guess a 1/4 Billion here, a 1/4 Billion there doesn't add up to real money any more. -
In poker parlance, the remaining Rossi believers are "all in". They really have nothing to lose at this point by sticking with their hero. They have already distinguished themselves as spectacularly gullible people without a lick of sense and incapable of critical thinking. So they will just play it out forever if need be. The worst that can happen is that they will continue to look like total idiots, which obviously doesn't trouble them in the least. On the other hand, if a miracle were to happen and Rossi actually turns out to have something meaningful, they can gloat for the rest of their lives. They stuck it to "the man" (whoever that might be in this case.)
The prototypical Rossi acolyte has little or no scientific acumen and somehow got sucked into this saga years ago. This was their big chance to be smarter than people who actually know something and put themselves ahead of the rest of the crowd with their perceptiveness. They have a great deal of ego riding on this. It took a lot of guts for former believers to bail on Rossi. It is basically admitting that you were scammed, and nobody likes to do that. That is why few scammers actually get sued or prosecuted. Their victims just disappear in shame.
So THH's question of what it will take to finally persuade the faithful has an easy answer: for most of them, there is nothing that will persuade them.
Please, we have been through this cycle so many times. The behaviour you describe is exactly the same for the skeptics. If not worse. Indeed, both sides are polarized, but i hope that the build-up of evidence will eventually persuade the persistent ones, on whatever side they may be, to embrace the truth.
Personally i am not afraid to be ridiculed after supporting Rossi for so long. The sooner we find his technology works or not the better.
This statement.. "This was their big chance to be smarter than people who actually know something and put themselves ahead of the rest of the crowd with their perceptiveness."..is interesting.
It seems likely to me that the statement says a lot about who you are. That you see the world as a fight between people that want to constantly outsmart each other. Putting yourself before the rest. I think the LENR believers in general or the Rossi supporters in particular are more curious to find out if there is a new interesting technology that has the potential to be disruptive. They are perhaps a bit delusional. Idiots. They are aware of that, but it does not bother them (so why are you bothered by it?). They travel the world to test ragtag reactors and interview scientist wannabees. They search the internet for old patents that might hold a clue to that secret fuel ingredient. They endlessly read each other's posts to see if they can get inspiration from other enthusiasts. What is wrong with that?
I believe the following quote fits these guys (and Rossi in particular) pretty well;
Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.”
What i read from you is not much more than negativity. In a loop. There seems to be no goal but to insult and proof (yourself?) you are handy with words. It must be very depressing, if you do not get paid, to keep on writing if your only hope is that people get annoyed by you. Please stick closer to your name. Observe and leave the idiots in peace.
Cheers,
JB
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MY: why did you take umbridge at my comment directed at AA? I was pointing out to him that his positive expectations about the QuarkX were baseless. Of course your (and my) negative expections of it are based on Rossi's track record and on using even a 7th grade-level knowledge of science, much less anything more sophisticated. My whole point was that his optimism was based on hero worship and nothing else. He refers to Rossi's group, whatever that means and the fact that he knows nothing whatsoever about the QuarkX. This is a reason to think it is real? So what it is you didn't understand about what I said?
Because I erroneously thought it was directed at me by someone other than you. I only have a small amount of time to read this forum so I do it as quickly as I can and sometimes, when tired or having had a rum or two, I tend to misconscrew. Sorry! Usually you and I agree about most everything and if anything, you are even more of a skeptic than me.
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JB: Ok. Swell. Rossi believers are heroic figures who through their faith will save the world. Positive thinking is more powerful than the laws of nature or logic, for that matter. Got it. Let's see how heroic you feel in another year or two, although if the past 6 haven't dampened your enthusiasm, I suppose a few more won't either.
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Most old timer experiments lacked the LENR reaction or at best these reactions were marginal and occurred for a very short time. LENR developers are now running experiments remotely.
That is bullshit from start to end.
1. Many previous experiments produced continuous excess heat for weeks or months, at power levels that would kill the observes in minutes if your hypothesis were true.
2. No one runs experiments remotely, except SRI, which was ordered to do so after the accident. I have been in several labs and I have never seen an experiment run remotely. Rossi's "experiments" were never run remotely.
Evidently you just make this stuff up and expect people to believe it.
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That is bullshit from start to end.
1. Many previous experiments produced continuous excess heat for weeks or months, at power levels that would kill the observes in minutes if your hypothesis were true.
2. No one runs experiments remotely, except SRI, which was ordered to do so after the accident. I have been in several labs and I have never seen an experiment run remotely. Rossi's "experiments" were never run remotely.
Evidently you just make this stuff up and expect people to believe it.
From: Brian Ahern
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 9:46 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled...
The sad reality is that nobody has succeeded in producing 1.0 watts of excess energy with a COP > 1.5 on a repeatable and demonstrated platform.
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This case was never tried, so no conclusions can be reached from it. However, anyone with an ounce of common sense who examines the case docket files will see that Rossi is a fraud and a criminal. Just look at his fake companies! Anyone with technical knowledge who looks at the Penon report can see that it is fraudulent. The only question is: will law enforcement officials see him as bad enough to be worth prosecuting. I have no idea whether they will or not.
The information is there for any criminal investigator with an ounce of common sense to pick up the reins and haul Rossi into jail. I suppose using your reasoning that all criminal investigators who have such authority have no common sense. They could pick up the phone and call you and get an earful, but that still wouldn't be enough for them to pursue because as you have stated, the case didn't even have enough weight to go through with a trial, let alone meet the burden of "preponderance of evidence."
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Maybe the settlement should have included an "I will not file or support criminal charges" clause.
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QuoteDisplay More
From: Brian Ahern
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2017 9:46 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi versus Darden trial settled...
The sad reality is that nobody has succeeded in producing 1.0 watts of excess energy with a COP > 1.5 on a repeatable and demonstrated platform.
JedRothwell For those of us who don't follow Vortex, did you refute that soundly?
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Maybe the settlement should have included an "I will not file or support criminal charges" clause.
That would be illegal/unenforceable. Not cooperating with officials in a criminal investigation puts you in trouble with the law.
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OK: "or support" is problematic.
But "will not file" is probably covered by the arbitration clause. -
I'm afraid Darden is too small to do the job, even if he continues, and until we clean our attic nobody serious will dare to enter this mess.
Too small for what? He enjoys plenty of funding and can divert them wherever he wants, since Woodford's money was destined for Rossi's competitors despite being him the winning horse in their stable. Now that Darden is free from trial, he can focus on his main and honorable goal, to save this polluted world ...... if something goes wrong then he can always resort to the usual bankruptcy, that always solve any problem.
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During this period he has never sold product, but he has extracted money from many others: for licences to sell product. The latest and biggest case of this was IH. None of his licensees have ever been able to sell product. That does not much bother Rossi as long as he can find fresh licensees to provide funds.
You don't know what you're saying. Rossi has offered all its licensees the repurchase of their license at a price higher than the one they originally paid for and some licensees have accepted the proposal. He did not steal money to anyone, you're just saying nonsense.
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THH said During this period he has never sold product, but he has extracted money from many others: for licences to sell product. The latest and biggest case of this was IH. None of his licensees have ever been able to sell product. That does not much bother Rossi as long as he can find fresh licensees to provide funds.
You don't know what you're saying. Rossi has offered all its licensees the repurchase of their license at a price higher than the one they originally paid for and some licensees have accepted the proposal. He did not steal money to anyone, you're just saying nonsense.
SSC - please reread the post you quoted.
I know exactly what I am saying, which you here agree is correct. What we can add, if what you say is correct, is that we now have proof positive that Rossi can continue to find
markspeople to sell licenses to. If the ones who you claim have rebought licenses at more than their sale price have been waiting without product 5 years or more then he is certainly a good salesman! That was the point of my post.Still you should be careful: some licensees have accepted the proposal. Maybe that would be ones like JMP, where the exchange of license funds is somewhat circular - from one Rossi-controlled entity to another?
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I am not good at reading such things but the settlement seems to exclude AEG. They could still sue Rossi, if I read it correctly and they could still hold some IP and sue or be sued.
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You don't know what you're saying. Rossi has offered all its licensees the repurchase of their license at a price higher than the one they originally paid for and some licensees have accepted the proposal. He did not steal money to anyone, you're just saying nonsense.
That's a classical Ponzi scheme. You pay off investors with money from new investors. Rossi's is probably too subtle to prosecute but it's a Ponzi scheme none the less.
If you want to know how a typical Rossi distributor who tied up hundreds of thousands of dollars for the license for years and consumed thousands of man-hours trying to find customers and to show them a working ecat, you MUST READ this article. First note that it is in e-catworld.com, the most Rossifriendly forum in existence.
Then pay attention to what Aldo Proia and another principal owner of Prometeon SRL had to say. For example:
Quotein one year and a half of work we found many customers seriously interested in buying the E-Cat, nominally already on the market, and we presented pre-orders and requests for demonstrations to both EFA and Mr Rossi, but we never had any kind of cooperation, we never received the purchasing contracts and it had never been possible to organize e demonstration. As far as we know, also other licensees had customers interested in installing an E-Cat® and they faced similar problems.
and
QuoteA few weeks later, in the month of December, we received a formal letter from EFA saying that our license contract was canceled because “we didn’t get enough orders, like it was written in the license contract”!! Obviously this was ridiculous and it was the final confirmation, if still needed, that it would have been impossible to see a working E-Cat®, probably for a long while.
For a long time? How about **EVER**?
Read the whole sad story here:
http://e-catworld.com/2014/11/24/prometeon-srl-addresses-e-cat-licensee-status/
Rossi is nothing but a lying con man sociopath crook. He keeps proving it over and over again TO HIS FRIENDS and supposed CUSTOMERS. Some of you simply refuse to get it.
If Darden and Vaughn were the brilliant industrial developers and venture capitalist inventors some here make them out to be, they would have spoken to the former licensees of Rossi's at length before investing. And they would have taken note of how Rossi not only admitted cheating Hydrofusion but seemed to be proud of it. I didn't have time to dig up the reference to that but it's out there.
