Prominent Gamma/L 0232 Flow Rate Test

Quote from Alan Fletcher

On the single fatcats : my recollection is that RossiSed^tm they were there as backups, and would only be activated as needed.

By "fatcats" you mean the small E-Cat units in the non-Big Frankies part of the Doral plant?

There are 2 pieces of evidence that these were not intended as backups.

1) Penon's reports outline the makeup of the powerplant. He specifies 115 power units.

2) The small E-Cats were fully operational and generating power in the first 2 weeks of the life of the Doral plant. In document 207-55 (first 14 pages) we see entries in a daily log (Fabiani's) of several aspects of the Doral plant operation. There are twice-daily values for the amount of energy absorbed by the plant and subsequent calculations of power absorption. There are also occasional comments, in Italian, on significant events happening within the plant.

- The log begins on Feb 1 2015 and records how, over 2 weeks, various groups of the small E-Cats were brought online and gradually fed more and more power.

- On Feb 17-18 the Big Frankies were brought online. This doubled the energy absorption of the plant. [Penon is visiting the plant from the Feb 16-18 so this is the configuration of the plant that he sees ... one with both the smaller E-Cats and the Big Frankies all operating]

- On the morning of Feb 19, my Italian-to-English converter says that the following was recorded "Hydraulic leaks in the single piece modules".

- On the evening of Feb 19 we see the comment (translated from Italian) "Off 6 groups of single modules". On that day the energy absorption of the plant dropped by 50% to around 10 Kw. The small E-Cats are now off and according to Barry West, have their circuitry removed. [Penon left the plant on the 18th so he is not on hand to see this]

- On Feb 23 Penon records the first data point for his report [which are actually not his readings at all but ones sent to him by Rossi from plant that is now profoundly altered from the one he saw].

Quote from Alan Fletcher

On the pump photos : the "mystery close up" is a crop from the one with Rossi standing by. That row is all set to "40% stroke", and they are not running.

The one I couldn't see the dials on was a different photo.

The "resampled" attachment (as discussed above) is clear ... you can read all of the stroke length knobs (a couple are set to 50% : Prominent were too cute with the design of the knob .. it's hard to tell at a glance which the active end is) and read some of the stroke rates. (kinda sorta ... ).

But without knowing when they were taken we don't know their relevance. Maybe there's EXIF data in the originals, but we're probably at about the 100'th copy now.

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The photo with Rossi standing beside the Big Frankies is definitely early on. Multiple people describe what a problem rust was in the lines and you don't see a hint of it here. Look at the bundle of plastic tube tied together with a zip-tie at the lower right. That is brand new tubing. And none of the pumps are powered as you pointed out. So this must have been before Feb 1 2015, before any water every travelled through the system. I submit that the settings on the pumps at that time are irrelevant to their actual operating configurations.

For more relevant settings I would look at pictures showing rusty water in the lines.

Alan Fletcher

One last thing about the pump settings. Here, from document 215-3 on page 291 is what Joe Murray said about them after visiting the Doral plant and seeing it working on (Feb 16, 2016)...

" ... we took pictures of the pump configuration when the plant was still operational on the 16th, and what we saw was that the pumps were in a fixed, almost maximal rate. And, in fact, we also saw that some of the pumps had sediment and, and biofouling in some of the lines, indicating that there's no flow in those.· So those pumps were disabled."

The pumps that were disable seem to the ones for the bottom Big Frankie (BF4) which seems to have been offline for most of the time from Sept 2015 to Feb 2016.

Quote from zorud

There is no way by design that such kind of precision solenoid metering pumps can double or triple their maximum dose, even when using other than athmospheric pressure in the pipes. So any reports or claims far away from the max. 32l/h is nonsense.

There are three problems with your statements. The first being that Alan F. has already shown in a Prominent manual that the type of pump at issue can pump several times their "maximum" rate. The second being that Alan F.'s own tests have shown that the same kind of pump can have a rate as high as > 43 l/h, and we are just getting started with the various configurations. And finally, Rossi's pump isn't a piston pump. Perhaps we all ought to withhold our conclusive statements until we finish some more actual testing.

Quote from Bob

So a major piece broke down, so he proceeds with hap-hazard abandon and "hopes" the pumps will produce the needed 36,000 L per day as needed? That the diaphrams do not melt at the high temps? That the 150% duty cycle does not seize the armatures? Is this really reasonable?

Not at all. I think he faked the whole thing. This is just his cover story. It's a brazen one!

Does he think people will buy it? He thinks they might. So he has gone ahead and tried it out. If it doesn't work then he just thinks ... "Hey. These schmoes didn't buy that one ... let's see if they'll go for this". .

Quote from Bob

I am at a bit of a loss here, on this whole pump story.

1) Why in the world would anyone (even Rossi) use 24 pumps that the clear manufacturer's parameters state where not close to the standard capacity needed for the 1MW plant. People here are attempting to "figure" out how they can "make it work"! Simply ask Rossi for the specifics! Plumbing has nothing to do with secret "IP"! If I were a Rossi believer, I would be extremely frustrated, even mad, that he does not put this to rest! (Of course my opinion is that he cannot, so he does not)

2) It does not matter if this test shows the pumps cannot produce the volume needed. Already, Rossi has "covered his a$$" by now stating there was some type of recirculating pump involved. So the faithful will simply state "no problem with these pumps, Rossi added other capacity by other pumps". Even though there is no evidence of such things. As with all his fabrications, Rossi could simply provide a complete diagram of the plumbing, it would reveal NO IP. However this will not happen. As provable facts come to light, Rossi simply "re-engineers" the plant. The same thing happened with the heat exchanger. In 2016 excess heat went out a roof vent. Then his own expert stated that heat would be a major problem, so he had to come up with the heat exchanger story! Now a recirculating pump!

3) If the test shows the pump is capable of producing 70L/HR, it does not really matter. Again, WHY would anyone use a pump so far out of spec. , both in heat of fluid and volume of the pump? Why would anyone use a metering pump (specifically designed to deliver X amount of fluid) and then run it for a year at double it's designed capacity AND at a much HIGHER temperature than rated! You will not convince many skeptics with this logic either.

People need to face this question. Rossi released the Penon report. It has the 1MW plant data. Heat generated, electricity used, flow rates, etc. etc. The plumbing schematic would reveal NO INFORMATION not already available! Why does Rossi not support his position by producing a plant schematic? Why does he not produce a schematic for the heat exchanger? Look at how much credibility it would gain him! It would require no effort to do this. OR does he NOT have a schematic. He built the entire 1MW plant from ideas in his head and from memory? Did he do all the flow calculations in his head? Is there no construction plans for the invention of the century? Really people! He does not release a schematic because once done, he cannot "retro invent" non-existing recirculating pumps to cover discovered inadequacies!

The same could be stated of IHFB's infamous pipe size or "missing window pane". It does not matter as people are going to believe what they want to believe. Rossi could prove it with a photo, but he does not! Same about the heat exchanger. A simple photo, but hmmmm, none exists? Did he design all this in his head with no drawings? How did the day laborer's build this amazing piece of equipment without drawings? Surely Rossi calculated out how much heat the system could dissipate! But he has NO evidence of the pipe size, the missing window, the heat exchanger, now the pump capacity? Come on!

If I were a Rossi supporter, I would be SO pissed off at him. He continually lies to you! He stated on his blog TO THE SUPPORTERS, that he had a new partner, new customers and this was proven a lie in depositions. He had NO reason to lie to you, other than he wants adulation. He COULD answer his loyal supporters questions on the heat exchanger, pipe sizes, plumbing schematics etc, etc. etc, etc. but he does NOT! He leaves you to dream up defenses for him as he does not defend himself!

I ask you supporters this.... start asking ROSSI for answers! There is no IP involved here! Simply ask him honest and open questions about pipe sizes, heat exchangers, why he used so vastly undersized pumps.

Ask for schematics and plans! It will answer these many questions! Ask him to HELP YOU defend his reputation!

Of course you will not ask him as you know deep down that he will simply delete any such questions and not answer them or state "this info is under NDA", his most famous fall back! Why do people defend him to the "nth" degree but do not ask HIM to simply provide the facts that will exonerate him!

You know deep down that you cannot pursue this avenue because you already know the outcome.....

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I told you that you would be back.

can

"An explanation someone attempted to bring out quite some time ago was that the exact flow of liquid/water going into those E-Cats is part of what Rossi considers IP" ...

"Preferably, the nickel has been treated to increase its porosity, for example by heating the nickel powder to for times and temperatures selected to superheat any water present in micro-cavities that are inherently in each particle of nickel powder. The resulting steam pressure causes explosions that create larger cavities, as well as additional smaller nickel particles."

@Bob 

Did I read like I was trying to defend Rossi? I don't think I was.

Ahlfors

I guess it might be possible to explain it like that too.

I remember a different suggestion, although I doubt that was a serious one.

Small explosions can generate specific acoustic fingerprints. Try to program a [transducer + Raspberry] bogus to detect it and stop excitation and/or drive high the pumps - a true "pinball" trick before tilt.

Ahlfors

On LENR-Forum there has been a recurring suggestion that Rossi's stethoscope was to listen to the harmonics generated by the heating coil(s) and that apparently there's an optimal load-matched input frequency where noise would be the highest. This wouldn't answer the pump mystery, though. Any comment?

The pump itself is very noisy. Try accessing one of the videos that Alan Fletcher has posted on this thread (for instance in post 366). Listen to the noise and multiply by 24. Not just that but the noise you hear is from mechanical solenoid pistons being thrown back and forth with a duty cycle repeating at 3 Hz. These would set up mechanical shocks that would be sent through the rack that the Big Frankies are sitting in. I'd be surprised if Mr Rossi could hear anything that was subtle.

Alan Smith

I must have missed when that happened; as of late I haven't been following Rossi news as I used to.

can

A) Forgive and forget LENR-Forum.

B) The Frankies can be noisy - stop.

C) DW, one of the two novelists on the road [the other being AR], knows it very well.

@Bob,

Answers to many of your questions can be found in the litigation record. I know, it isn't easy to sift through it all, but much of it is there for the curious.

I'm glad that you are back to frequently visiting and posting. It just isn't quite the same here without you around.

Quote from Can

An explanation someone attempted to bring out quite some time ago was that the exact flow of liquid/water going into those E-Cats is part of what Rossi considers IP and crucial to make that specific implementation properly work;

It may be that way. From the interview Rossi released to Mats Lewan we can read this:

A ‘circulator’ (positioned in connection to the heat exchanger) was used to stabilize the flow of steam and water through the whole system. Rossi wouldn’t comment on further data of the circulator since he said he was preparing a patent for this device.

(https://animpossibleinvention.…-was-rossis-top-priority/)

Quote from Bruce__H

It is not clear to me whether or not the shutdown of the smaller ecats was really due to functional problems. It turns out that all of the fuel charges in the smaller E-Cat units were manufactured and put in place by IH at a time when Rossi was not around (this was in N Carolina). In contrast, the fuel charges in the Big Frankies were 100% Rossi-controlled. Rossi may have been worried that IH had placed a few "control" charges full of dummy fuel into some of the small E-Cats and so shut them all down.

Perhaps really IH didn't properly load those reactors, which didn't work for that very reason. Darden couldn't put the correct fuel even when he gave the reactor to Boeing to test it. IH was not even able to do such a basic thing ..... but then they continued to argue that if they could not do functional reactors was because Rossi hadn't given them the right information. The hypothesis that they were incapable seems to me much more plausible.

SSC: "Perhaps really IH didn't properly load those reactors, which didn't work for that very reason."

Don't you think think this was their intention when paying 11 Mio$ to get the proper loading information from Rossi? They failed and so are failing others who try to replicate Rossi's claims...maybe his reactor and his ECTA techology never worked, indeed....