Prominent Gamma/L 0232 Flow Rate Test

  • Thanks Alan. Or the shutter speed of the camera was very slow in that gloomy looking container and it caught all the lights as they winked on....?

    Possible. On the other hand, do you really think this is probable?

    It doesn't seem all that gloomy to me. There are banks of fluorescent lighting down both sides of the red Ecat container. And I expect that much of the light for the pictures comes from the general lighting in the Doral facility (the pumps on the BF units are at the end of the container where it opens on to the room, the pictures must have been taken by someone standing outside the red Ecat container with their backs to the wall enclosing the JMP facility). Every photo I have seen taken in the general lighting of the facility has always seemed non-gloomy to me.

    Overall I think these are pretty ordinary indoor lighting levels. The sort of levels where I occasionally catch my friends in mid blink with my smartphone.

  • Thanks Alan. Or the shutter speed of the camera was very slow in that gloomy looking container and it caught all the lights as they winked on....?

    It occurs to me that we can do better than just trade opinions on this matter ... we can ask Alan Fletcher to try it out!

    Alan Fletcher. Alan, if you are agreeable, would you please use you phone to take some pictures of the pump in operation? Specifically, pictures of the front of the pump when it is pumping water in manual mode at maximal stroke rate and stroke length. Of interest is whether your phone camera at normal settings and light levels is capable of capturing distinct eras of the green ready light blinking on and off, or whether it just always appears on. I would think that 3 or 4 successive pictures all at the same settings would tell the story.

  • I'll try and do that tomorrow///// later today (Wednesday).

    I have movies and will give you the on/off ratios at a setting 180 pulses.
    (Right now I can't remember if the green light comes on steady when it's not actually pumping).

    Much appreciated.

    Also -- and I know I am all requests these days so I apologize ahead of time -- but would it be possible to get a "mug shot" of the front of the pump when it is in the following state: manual mode, 180 strokes per minute, the stop button pressed? In this state the word Stop should appear near the top of the display screen and this is what i am after. I will use this to find the exact position of that word on the display so that I can analyze other images.

  • Dang! I put all my videos on a brand-new Lexar thumb drive ... and it's dead!

    Setting up ... trying to get a good seal, take 3.

    But :

    a) When in manual/stop the green light IS full on.
    b) The "p" of "Stop" is directly above the "M" of "Manual"

    c) When running there is nothing on the top bar (Stop) <== edit 1

  • Phew! The things I do for science. Just got in from my 22 runs-in-the dark, and freezing my butt off. (Down to 45F). Also got me (AND all the equipment, power lines : is on a ground-fault circuit) drenched by starting the pole in the full-upright position.

    Be a couple of days before I have time to put the data in the spreadsheet.

    The last run ... with the outlet way below the pump center had an INCREASE in the pump count. Re-ran it and got wildly different results (389 to 524). Too dark to see what was happening in the pipe, so I'll try tomorrow morning (after the frost melts!)

  • You've not been following. I'm testing from -0.1 to 0.5 bar, with a 20-foot pole which I swing from vertical to horizontal. (this forum software doesn't seem to read the exif orientation from my android cell phone). Edit: click on the link below the pic to see it on my site.


  • OK but what does that have to do with Rossi? You're right I am not following the thread so if the answer is upthread, please so state rather than replying. Thanks. It does seem a ... well... strange thing to do.

    ETA: Ah, never mind. I suppose you're using acceleration forces to induce pressure changes... still seems like a strange way to do it but I don't know much about it.

  • Some data from the front panel

    I ran a video and read the frame-times for led-changes.

    "60/180" is the expected period for 180 cycles per minute.

    Then I took 5 photos at each speed setting, and recorded how many were "ON".

    Off On Period 60/180
    Secs 0.1003 0.2298 0.3347 0.3333
    On/off ratio 0.2996 0.6865
    Shutter 1/Secs Shutter T # ON/5 shots
    50 0.020 4
    80 0.013 5
    100 0.010 3
    200 0.005 3
    400 0.003 5

    Even at the lowest expected speed (1/50 = 0.02 sec) the shutter time is a short fraction of the "off" time 0.10 secs, so it should have caught some pumps (about 30%) with the LED off.

    Tentative conclusion : EITHER

    The pumps were in Manual/Stop

    OR : EDIT

    The pumps were not free-running, but pulsed from a common control signal.

    All the control inputs are on the front panel. Nothing is connected.

  • Thanks for taking the trouble to do this Alan.

    If you look at the picture that Ahlfors supplied of the banks of pumps sitting on the big Frankies, and if you zoom in on the pump displays, you will see on most of them a prominent black smudge just above and to the left of the large numbers reading either 100 or 180. Although you cannot read the lettering, these smudges are in exactly the space where the word "Manual" appears when the pumps are in that mode. It is my understanding that this is the only word that can appear there.

    So the pumps are in manual mode (all of them I think), and it is my understanding that when in this mode they cannot be pulsed from an external signal but can only be controlled from the from panel. A final indication that the pumps are being controlled from the front panel rather than an external synch signal is that the red printing on the Stop/Run buttons on the front of every pump is nearly worn away. That must take a lot of use (as you could test for yourself). Rather than working away continuously 24/7 as I had supposed at one point, these pumps must have been turned on and off many many times during the test at Doral. This fits with the indication of Barry West that the pumps were turned on to top put the Big Frankies whenever the internal water levels were perceived as low. It doesn't fit at all with these pumps supplying 36,000 L/day.

    Finally, although I am sure that there is photographic evidence that the pumps are in manual mode it is not yet a certainty that they are stopped. By tomorrow or the day after I hope to have clarified this by quantifying the greyscale levels in the regions above and to the left of the "Manual" smudge areas. These regions contain smudges too and because of their positioning these smudges, where they exist, must be blurred versions of the word "Stop". This would be positive proof that the pumps involved are in manual/stop mode at the time of the photograph and so not pumping. Preliminary results are that half or more of the pumps are definitely in this state.