Prominent Gamma/L 0232 Flow Rate Test

Quote from Bob

This is quite a post on JONP. "If you pump water through a pipe 20 meters high...." This is extremely unlikely.... to the point of ridiculous. This person is stating that they made a pipe 20 meters tall! That is 60 feet high! This is close to 6 stories in height.

So someone purchases a pump, Where does he test 6 stories tall at? Why would he test 6 stories tall? Putting up a pipe that high would require a lot of support and cost. Then one has to collect the water that comes out at the top. Then they have to tear it all down. This all is no small feat! Especially for some "test" because a reader is following the lawsuit! (A.F. ... would you be likely to rig up a pipe the height of a six story building?) Anyone who thinks putting up 60 meters of vertical pipe is easy, has no experience in such matters.

So if the person did not do this, his comments are unfounded. I have no proof this did not happen, but I also certainly do not believe it. Rossi has been proven to lie and lie often. This seems to be another one of them. Same as when he posted things such as the Doral customer was a real customer, with real production, based in the UK, requiring total NDA, etc. etc. We all know how "truthful" that was!

Quite remarkable, yet some people lap it up as if it made perfect sense and do not question it at all!

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@Bob,

I am not lapping up anything. It just post a snippet of what somebody on JONP posts. It might be a fake, it might be real. It might be worthwhile to the discussion.

Cheers,

JB

PS: I thought you were planning to retreat?

Quote from Bob

This is quite a post on JONP. "If you pump water through a pipe 20 meters high...." This is extremely unlikely.... to the point of ridiculous. This person is stating that they made a pipe 20 meters tall! That is 60 feet high! This is close to 6 stories in height.

Well, that's not quite right. This person said "if you pump" did not say that he actually did it to that height. Maybe he did tests at different heights (below 20 m) and then extrapolated the results.

Quote from Alan Fletcher

WHICH hill ... Mayacamas? I'm in Lake County.

My comment was based on the website link you provided at the start of this thread, which shows Campbell California. That is about 25 miles from me.

If you have moved, please forgive my mis-statement. Lake County is a fair days drive from me but my offer still stands.

I referred to myself as "The Third Alan" considering Alan Smith as #1 and yourself (Alan Fletcher) as #2.

Alan Goldwater

MFMP

If a recirculating pump was used in combination with the metering pump and the re-circulation pump is on the inlet side of the metering pump then it can provide enough pressure to open the inlet and outlet check valves in the metering pump.
This would result in a flow through the metering pump even is it not in operation.
If the metering pump is operating and if there is enough water between the re circulation pump and the the metering pump, the metering pump can in operation suck additional water from the inlet and pump it out.
Thus the flow out will be a combination of the some of flow provided by the re-circulation pump and that of the metering pump and the total flow will likely be higher then that of the metering pump alone.

I am NOT a pump expert, so I would like anybody with a working experience on pumps to tell if the above is a valid scenario.

Quote from zorud

Peter - "Dosierleistung" is more or less the "required flow rate" = dosing capacity. In general these kind of pumps are designed to be able to deliver a specific constant flow rate (Dosierung) of the related liquids (water), depending on their application. The term or feature "Dosierleistung" is of course limited to a minimum and maximum flow rate depending on their design. You cannot simply change by some tricks their minimum or maximum flow rate by a factor of 2 (would mean to double their maximal allowed rpm, which is by design more or less impossible, unless you are wiling to destroy the toy).

SInce a couple of people here seem to argue that labels or manuals may be wrong ("go and figure if this is true at all, maybe the user manual is wrong"????) - this is rediculous. They have no clue about product design, verification, manufaturing, and selling. Liability and correct labeling is an essential part of the related product certification and approval, at least in our part of the world.

Thanks for your answer zorud. It seems to match my understanding and what I stated. The issue then is what is the effect of back pressure on the dosing capacity. The manual states 32 l/h at 2 bar back pressure. Rossi claims less (.2bar?) so the question is what is the dosing capacity at this claimed back pressure--I would think it's higher although I don't know how much higher. IH's expert witness however took the value off the nameplate and claimed it was the maximum flow rate period including the pressure that the 1MW purportedly operated. I imagine the manufacturer has more complete specifications for a range of back pressures and could save a lot of work (although not a fun).

Quote from Alan Fletcher

I'm working on a "Phase 0" experiment (discharging the pump directly into a 1-liter measuring cylinder (ordered).

At 60l/hr it will take a minute to fill. As before:

start the pump

start timing when the level crosses the lo-mark (eg 100ml).

stop timing when the level crosses the hi-mark (eg 900ml).

stop the pump

My biggest concern is that (particularly with the pulsed output) ripples/splashes will make it hard to read when the water level crosses a mark. Timing is at the frame rate of the camera, eg 1/30 sec : no problem.

If I can read the level to +- 0.1 inch then the flow-rate error will be +- 1.6% at 60l/hr

I think that's good enough.

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Did you consider using trash cans and scales?

Quote from THHuxleynew

If the stroke rate is controlled by the pump and lImited by that this cannot happen.

I would be not so sure. This pump is not a mass flow meter pump dosing the exact mass of liquid.

In this type of economic pumps stroke rate and quantity delivered is not precise and can be influenced by liquid pressure/viscosity/temperature and even by power supply voltage.

Precise flow pumps are quite different.

Look e.g.

http://www.bronkhorst.com/en/p…w_meter_controlled_pumps/

http://www.modernpumpingtoday.…ding-vane-pumps-part-1-2/

My two bits: I think Alan F's approach also makes for a better video to be shared here for the benefit of the peanut gallery.

Quote from Alan Smith

Or just pump into a bucket for a known time and measure the amount at leisure- no ripples.

Measure bucket mass. Start pump with output to second bucket. Direct output to measured bucket for say 500s (error < 2s => 0.4%). Move output back to slops bucket. Switch off motor. Measure mass of bucket + water.

Check scales vs some reference mass (or a precise amt of water - but ref mass is easier). Scales accuracy after calibration better than 0.5%.

Should be < 1% total error

FTPOTQ +/-5% would be adequate...