​New E-Cat QX Picture and New Rossi-Gullstrom Paper (Very high COP reported with Calorimetry)​

Quote from IH Fanboy

I went back and took a look at the patent application, and you are right, there are some diagrams of the innards, so I retract that. My memory was of the Lugano report itself, which just had the exterior photographs.

Having admitted that, the patent application states that: "A thermocouple inserted into one of the caps allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by [indirectly] measuring the internal temperature of the reactor." (emphasis added; clarification in brackets added.) And as we know, the end caps were of a lower temperature than the reactor.

Table 6:

So, once again, Para/THH FUD debunked.

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That was the outside of the caps. Of course the internal temperature was much higher.

Quote from maryyugo

No, IHFB. I just don't want to lose money because someone can weasel. The wording should make it clear that if Rossi is selling a useful ecat product that people really want, and which gets energy in a clearly anomalous way, I lose the bet. What more would you want?

Astronomical odds eh Mary? so you'd be willing to give me a 1000000:1 odds? I'll bet you a $1.

Quote from Shane D.

Who knows, although one thing is for certain, he uses terms like "confidential, proprietary, patent pending, NDA" to stop questioning on matters, when his lies back him into a corner. His trump card so to speak. And when he plays it, he always has his fans come to his rescue, and fill in the missing blanks with exotic materials, creative schematics, and fanciful physics.

It is absolutely normal for an entrepreneur to protect his business, as it is normal for an inventor to protect his discovery. Rossi is both. Do you expect him to reveal everything just to satisfy the curiosity of his supporters or the nosiness of people who pass their lives to insult him and always try to read negatively everything he says? It seems to me that there is a lot of creativity even on the part of the haters: never once they are looking for answers that are not intended to confirm their predetermined design.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

That was the outside of the caps. Of course the internal temperature was much higher.

Sure, but the outside of the caps were in the 500 C range. The internal temp of the end caps will be somewhat hotter, but probably still well within the range of the thermocoupler used. Come to think of it, I think Rossi explained all of this on his blog long ago, which would be consistent with the patent application. (Although I can't seem to find the discussion on the blog at the moment.)

@Shane: you are using common sense to argue with a Rossi believer. That has been extensively demonstrated to be of zero utility. Why bother?

Quote from Shane D.

After the settlement, had he promptly started a strong marketing effort to sell the 1MW, or the reliable and more powerful 15kW Ecat LT's, I might have held out some slim hope that maybe I was wrong, and he did have something. But his course of action makes it very clear, without a doubt, he has nothing.

I've found that usually when someone swears to something without a doubt, they are actually secretly doubting. Indeed, there are very few certainties in life.

@Shane: yes, you were a Rossi believer for a long time. But you never exhibited the venom towards heretics that is the earmark of the hard core, as you call them. You were always willing to argue on the basis of facts and supposed facts. I guess the remaining faithful are the people who have somehow equated defending Rossi with defending themselves. I suppose if you have abandoned rationality in favor of an illogical fantasy, you need to put up walls.

Quote from IH Fanboy

Sure, but the outside of the caps were in the 500 C range. The internal temp of the end caps will be somewhat hotter, but probably still well within the range of the thermocoupler used. Come to think of it, I think Rossi explained all of this on his blog long ago, which would be consistent with the patent application. (Although I can't seem to find the discussion on the blog at the moment.)

...600 C range, and double the diameter (insulation thickness) of the Main Tube, but with the fuel just mms away from the wire.

Which also leads us to the Kanthal A1 calibrated resistance wire temperature problem.

Quote from Paradigmnoia

...600 C range, and double the diameter (insulation thickness) of the Main Tube, but with the fuel just mms away from the wire.

Which also leads us to the Kanthal A1 calibrated resistance wire temperature problem.

Para, you really can't help but FUD can you?

Kanthal A1 has a melting point at 1500 C.

The hot cat reactor is designed to operate in a range of 250-1200° C. The max measured temp in Lugano was ~1410. The reactor was designed such that the convective thermal exchange from internal to external is maximized, so the differential between internal and surface temp is probably negligible.

Whereas the surface of the caps is smooth, the outer surface of the body of the device is molded in triangular ridges, 2.3 mm high and 3.2 mm wide at the base, covering the entire surface and designed to improve convective thermal exchange .... In this way, the current embodiment of the device 10 is capable of attaining higher temperatures than earlier models, avoiding internal melting...

Quote from IH Fanboy

So, once again, Para/THH FUD debunked.

Of course one can't put a thermocouple inside the reactor because there is the risk that it melts. Remember also that Lugano was also a very long measure,

So even the highest temperature TC are not suitable. http://www.omega.com/pptst/XC.html

" The Nextel ceramic insulation is rated for 1200°C (2200°F) continuous use, or 1425°C (2600°F) short term"

That why the thermocouple was on the cap.

Quote from Shane D.

Trust me, I have no doubt that Rossi has nothing. Not playing mind games with you. I am so confident of that, I have even had to force myself to post lately...which after thousands of posts here, and ECN's the past 6 years, speaks volumes. Yes, I am that convinced Rossi is an out and out fraudster.

The only reason I pay attention lately is out of habit, and to keep me from going back on crack.

If you really think that Rossi has nothing you are purposely ignoring many facts that have been shown even here.

One of the many is, as also written by italianLayer,

Quote from Italianlawyer

But let me say that a big and rich client signs such an agreement only if he thinks he could loose... Otherwhise it's better to celebrate the trial...

So Is quite evident even from a Legal point that Rossi had a victory and that means that he has something.

And some the people here is attacking Lugano hiding that there were other successful tests. e.g. Ferrara .

Quote from interested observer

@Shane: you are using common sense to argue with a Rossi believer. That has been extensively demonstrated to be of zero utility. Why bother?

Oh yeah. People like you have no common sense but an agenda.

BTW I look at facts, and I'm not a believer. Notably using lateral thinking one can conclude that Rossi has something because there are people that pass great part of their day writing against him.

Is evident that this for them is no more a hobby or an interest but a work.

And work is paid, probably by IH.

Quote from ele

BTW I look at facts, and I'm not a believer. Notably using lateral thinking one can conclude that Rossi has something because there are people that pass great part of their day writing against him.

Is evident that this for them is no more a hobby or an interest but a work.

So: the fact that anyone on this forum argues for Rossi being a lying cheat proves he must in fact having a working device which will solve the world's energy problems means said device must work?

Does the same apply to BLP, Steorn, Papp, etc, etc...?

This discussion seems to have degenerated somewhat.

I'd like to know more about Signor Rossi's Quackex.

Like is it possible to maintain an energetic plasma under the conditions described?

How much current could pass through such a plasma? How could it be measured?

Would it be interesting to put a power meter across the input power supply to check what power was being delivered to the system, rather than making dubious calculations from incomplete data? Seems more sensible than messing about with 1-ohm resistors and cheap voltmeters

(I hope and trust that any potential investor in the Quackex would insist on that as a minimum before even opening discussions)

And lastly, I am still clinging to the vain hope that someone will explain to me why an industrial user with a requirement for hundreds of KW of heat would prefer a system of hundreds of tiny units as opposed to say a system of 4 x 250 KW ecats