How to emit low energy photons during LENR

    • Official Post

    Hi, all,

    I'd like to have comments about some speculations, some question that turn in my head.

    • I don't want new physics as an answer but usual QM.
    • I mostly think in the 'slow fusion' paradigmof @'Edmund Storms', even if I miss many points
    • I'll be happy that someone explains my idea is impossible
    • no need to argue on details, key is to find a directions and dead ends.


    My vision of LENR is that one quantum object get assembled in the NAE and it emit energy, not as MeV photons like hot fusion, but by bursts of 10-100keV photons, until some He4 is formed from deuterium atoms...


    The usual hot fusion process can be understood by the potential energy between two deuterium atoms. There is a huge potential barrier, that prevent the d-d system to fall easily into the lower He4 state. I simplify it as this potential graph (just sinus and slope):



    I wonder how LENR can happen and for me, to have many intermediate steps to disspate the 24MeV you need many smaller barrier. The thickness of the barrier will slow the tunneling, and the distance between minima will determine the quanta emitted.


    I propose something similar to that simplified version



    Of course a usual d-d system cannot show that potential, but maybe hydroton, or a complex made of Pd and D in rare situation ...


    maybe the idea of Pr Iwamura (4D fusion), or mixing of vacancies with cracks, or many unimagined situation, can allow such a quasi-periodic potential to emerge from the energy state of a multi-body system (or a 2 body under material science influence, like cooper pairs)...


    is there known phenomenon, in material science probably, where this kind of potential appear.


    the strange thing here is that it is not about electronic potential, but nuclear force...


    many good reason for me to be wrong.

  • LENR is produced by the polariton. It is an electrons that has been converted so that it has almost no mass and no charge by the entanglement with light.


    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqntI4AAmOXn4EGD6gM9_3X8cC1meU-fGlYhNgOkHfuFZ95N2g9g


    Dipole motion of electrons and holes on the sides and sharp curves on associated cracks and bump on a transition metal surface enable polaritons to form when heat converts these electrons of the dipoles into polaritons. The population of polaritons will alway form a Bose condensate in which all the polaritons become entangled and coherent. The state of the fabric of space/time inside that condensate deposes matter to breakdown and form mesons. first polaritons must be activated bu a high potential EMF field, then mesons are generated. These muons will then catalyze fusion and fission that is seen in LENR.


    Any theory of LENR must explain why no gamma radiation is produced by the fusion and fission based nuclear processes produce. It also must also explain why all isotopes produced by the LENR reaction as stable. The polariton condensate explains these observations, your ideas do not. The polariton theory explains why heat is required by the LENR reaction, your ideas do not. The polariton theory explains why a high potential activation field is required to get LENR started, your idea does not. This explanation list goes on for another 50 required explanations that your idea cannot explain.

  • https://arxiv.org/abs/1708.03040


    Dear Qubitzers, GR=QM



    Leonard Susskind, the dean of high energy physics, has finally recognized the impact of entanglement on the nature of space/time and the way the forces of nature operates in that space. LENR theory in its proper and correct embodiment is hard to understand. To understand the LENR reaction fully and correctly means that you will also need to understand the way the universe works correctly and in detail. You must understand what is fundamental and what emerges from more fundamental properties of the universe. Leonard Susskind now understands that entanglement is the ultimate and most basic factor that shape the universe and directs what happens in space/time. Almost all of science rejects this insight most vigorously. I beleive that this feeling of fundamental unease in science underlies the reason why LENR is so hated throughout science.


    From woit, a professional mathematical physicist.



    GR=QM?

    Posted on August 10, 2017 by woit

    In recent years a hot topic in some theoretical physics circles has been the 2013 “ER=EPR” conjecture first discussed by Maldacena and Susskind here. Every so often I try and read something explaining what this is about, but all such efforts have left me unenlightened. I’m left thinking it best to wait for this to be better understood and for someone to then produce a readable exposition.


    A post from Sabine Hossenfelder, the queen of high energy physics, has commented on Susskind's new idea here.


    It is no wonder why LENR a child of GR=QM is so hated by professional science

  • Mainstream physics doesn't like ideas, only formulas - and the Susskind's article contains none of them. No equations means no food and grants for theorists.

    But the LENR isn't "child of GR=QM" and nobody of physicists actually hates it - simply because they don't fable like you.

  • https://arxiv.org/abs/1707.07757


    String theory phenomenology and quantum many body systems


    Another recent paper has been issued that supports the underlying premise of the LENR reaction, that explains the ability of a Bose condensate to accumulate all the energy required to reveal the grand unification of forces as a consequence of entanglement.


    Sabine Hossenfelder rejected this underlying idea developed by the paper because she does not understand the full scope of research into Bose condensation. and its place in solid state physics


    Quote

    It’s probably correct that this discontinuity depends on the number of extra-dimensions. Unfortunately the authors don’t go back and check what’s the mass per particle in the condensate that’s needed to make this work. I’ve put in the numbers and get something like a million tons. That gigantic mass becomes necessary because it has to combine with the miniscule temperature of about a nano-Kelvin to have a geometric mean that exceeds the Planck mass.

    In summary: Sorry, but nobody’s going to test string theory with Bose-Einstein-Condensates.


    My post in reaction to this paper as follows:


    It seems to me that all the conditions required to show the hidden dimensions expected by string theory are meet in condensed matter physics using the bosonic quasiparticle called the Surface Plasmon Polariton (SPP). This boson can form non-equilibrium Bose-Einstein condensates at room temperature and beyond.



    In “Oscillatory behavior of the specific heat at low temperature in quasiperiodic structures” E.L. Albuquerquea;∗, C.G. Bezerraa, P.W. Maurizb, M.S. Vasconcelos, a structure featuring 11 level discontinuity in specific heat as predicted by the Mexican paper is shown to exist.



    The behavior of a variety of particles or quasi-particles (electrons, phonons, photons, polaritons, magnons, etc.) has been and is currently being studied in quasi-periodic systems. A fascinating feature of these quasi-periodic structures is that they exhibit collective properties not shared by their constituent parts.



    Furthermore, the long-range correlations induced by the construction of these systems are expected to be reflected to some degree in their various spectra, designing a novel description of disorder. A common factor shared by all these excitations is a complex fractal energy spectrum.



    Could this discontinuous fractal based specific heat spectrum of SPPs be exposing the higher dimensions of reality as predicted by the Mexicans?

    then expanding in another post which was rejected by Sabine Hossenfelder


    On my opinion, Sergio Gutiérrez is on the correct road to Grand unification but he must utilize the polariton and the associated non-equilibrium room temperature Bose-Einstein condensates as a tool to get to where he wants to go.

    see

    https://arxiv.org/abs/1509.05264

    Does the BEC argument imply that we would "see" the extra-dimensions in our daily life? Answer: YES. We can see the results of accessing these extra dimensions from the changes they produce in the fundamental forces.


    In the grand unification theory (GUT) proposed by Howard Georgi and Sheldon Glashow in 1974, the road to grand unification took the wrong road by assuming that the fundamental forces of nature could come together when a single particle could be pumped with the huge amounts of energy required to expose the unification of the fundamental forces.


    But the correct road to grand unification of forces if found in condensed matter physic, quasiparticles, and through Bose condensation of many of these particles. The condensate acts like a single particle but the energy that the condensate assumes is the sum of all the energy of all the members of the condensate.


    Unlike the conditions that exist in ultra-cold atomic BECs, the Bose condensation produced by polaritons has the proper temperature, particle mass, energy, and aggregation numbers to access and expose the extra dimensions that are not usually accessible to ordinary reality. What we see in that polariton condensate is how the universe functioned during the first few seconds at the beginning of the universe before the universe cooled.

    This condition can be seen today in selected polariton base BEC experiments that show the increased activity of the weak force in stabilizing radioactive isotopes.


    This process has been patented by the US Navy and is available for licensed development.


    https://www.google.com/patents/US8419919


    Original Assignee: Jwk International Corporation, The United States Of America As Represented By The Secretary Of The Navy.


    This patent means that the process described therein absolutely works as certified by the US patent office.


    A very pure and direct polariton based nanoplasmonic experiment using light pumped nanoparticles that enables us to see change in the weak force is here.


    Accelerated alpha-decay of 232U isotope achieved by exposure of its aqueous solution with gold nanoparticles to laser radiation

    A.V. Simakin, G.A. Shafeev


    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t…TUA&bvm=bv.46471029,d.dmQ


    And in a summation bringing in LENR involved in this subject for you as follows:



    A polariton is a special quasiparticle. It is an electron that has most of its mass and charge removed. It can only exist when it is generated by a nanoparticle or a pit or bump in the surface of a metal.


    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqntI4AAmOXn4EGD6gM9_3X8cC1meU-fGlYhNgOkHfuFZ95N2g9g


    This is a picture of polariton formation in pits and bumps in a metal.


    As a special case, metallic hydrogen is a nanowire that produces the LENR reaction without plasma forming. This includes other hydrogen based metalized compounds like water.


    But when plasma is used to produce the LENR reaction, because the polariton needs is a nanoparticle to exist, it is passively critical. When that nanoparticle vaporizes, the polariton dies. So a dirty plasma that is passively maintained at the vaporization point of a given metal will produce many self-sustaining forms of energy including heat, light. XUV. X-rays, gamma, pressure from fast particle generated shock waves, electrons and various other types of subatomic particles.






    • Official Post

    I understand Zephir_AWT position, this way :


    the way to make the DD->He4 energy dissipate with smaller quanta tha the 24MeV is by a situation where the "system" show a low dimensionality (1D, 2D)...



    This is, removed the details (nb: no need to enter details, I search for the direction), what I suspect.


    Do you agree that to dissipate (not a hot) fusion energy an energy spectrum full of bumps (multiple resonance, comb shaped...) is required, and that collective phenomenon in low dimensionality systems are a good direction ?



    Axil position is too detailed for me, but it seems to propose that some pseudo particles (emerging excitation of a collection of QM particles, photons+electrons for polaritons, plasmons) allows the dissipation.


    The point on need for heat is not so opposed to my position, as my vision is that basic energy availability (heat) may allows the system to get over or tunnel through the bumps.

    If it is only heat that allows the tunneling, this mean in my model, that the bumps are not thick and thus very numerous (thus that mostly heat is produced).


    one question is the relation between the energy absorbed to pass over the bumps, or tunnel through them, and the quanta emitted after transition.


    my curves are not so good, as the barrier is huge while the energy produced is lower.

    for hot fusion it seems the barrier is much lower than the energy dissipated (24MeV).


    is it possible for example that the bumps are 0.1eV high, or higher but very narrow allowing tunneling at 0.1eV, while for example the step afterward is above 1keV ?

    ?

    will such a potential allows "slow fusion" triggered by heat and chemical energy, emitting X-rays ?


  • It's important to understand, how the vacuum properties get changed during interaction between particles. The exchange of virtual photons between particles makes the vacuum foam more dense in similar way, like the soap foam after shaking. If we squeeze the charged particles together, then the virtual photons concentration between them rises, which makes the tunneling of matter and energy easier. Whole the gauge theory is based on this effect: the virtual particles may serve as another real particles for another generation of virtual particles and so on. In this way the atom nuclei serve as a dense cluster of quarks and their bosons (gluons) which have nearly the same effective mass.


    P5vD0X7.giffZaSnQ7.gif

    Therefore, once we squeeze the atom nuclei together, then the dense layer of vacuum formed between them will pronouncedly improve tunneling of energy and neutrons and also eliminate the force barriers between them. Axil Axil also pointed to this effect of condensation before some time. In addition, the increase of vacuum density during entanglement is the effect, which connects relativity and quantum mechanics, as I can explain later.

  • Possibly of interest is the "sub-oscillation" phenomenon where a high frequency bandlimited signal can appear to be low frequency.

    For example, see ---

    "Super defocusing of light by optical sub-oscillations"

    https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.04755


    This is the inverse of "super-oscillation" presented in papers --

    "Unusual Properties of Superoscillating Particles"

    https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0305148

    "How can an infra-red photon behave as a gamma ray?"

    Tel-Aviv University Preprint. TAUP, 1847-1890 (1990).

    • Official Post

    to rephrase my points, I realize that not only there should be a phenomenon to lower the coulomb barrier, but most important is the need for many barriers that prevent the nucleus to fuse immediately after the coulomb barrier is overcome. thus my naive model.


    Proposal based on material science is evident, but this time the potential does not involve only electrostatic potential, but also strong force (and maybe weak force), between nuclei who are far away.


    One misunderstanding is also that as I cannot, and don't want to, find a mechanism, I decided to consider that there exist one "system" whose "potential energy" follow a curve, like the famous d-d potential of hot fusion

    Figure_33_05_03a.jpg

    (NB: my graphs are inverted left-right and naively shaped)


    for LENR for sure it cannot be free-space dd system, but something that like many of you propose involve many particles, making eventually some pseudo particles emerge (like sea waves emerge from water molecule, or cooperpairs from metal lattice)

  • to rephrase my points, I realize that not only there should be a phenomenon to lower the coulomb barrier, but most important is the need for many barriers that prevent the nucleus to fuse immediately after the coulomb barrier is overcome. thus my naive model.


    What you are describing is a system of quantum energy levels. Instead of having one quantum transition (and a high energy photon, in the case of dd → 4He + gamma), there are many quantum energy levels, transitions between them and resulting photons.


    In quantum mechanics, each release of a photon (carrying away a quantum of energy) requires two energy levels in the system, one before the release of the photon and one after. When talking about nuclei, we're talking about a nuclear system. In the context of a single nucleus there are (generally) well-defined levels in the system, each corresponding to a unique configuration of the nucleons. Once the nucleons shift to another configuration and the nucleus changes in shape and pattern of vibration, you either have a photon emitted that carries away the difference in potential energies of the two configurations of the nucleus, or, in the case of something like absorbing a gamma photon, you have a shift to a higher energy state.


    So we have something like:

    • Heavy nucleus, configuration 1 — highest potential energy
    • Transition to configuration 2 — a little less potential energy + a photon
    • Transition to configuration 3 — a little less potential energy + a photon

    For heavier nuclides such as uranium, the energy levels in a single nucleus are no doubt too many to enumerate. For light nuclei there are few energy levels for different bound configurations of the nucleus. For deuterium and hydrogen, there are no transitions between energy levels, either because there is only one nucleon (hydrogen) and so no transitions, or because what higher energy levels there are correspond to unbound states (deuterium). Meaning that when a suitable perturbation occurs, instead of shifting to a configuration of the nucleus with a higher potential energy above the ground state, the deuterium nucleus just fragments into a neutron and a proton.


    In Ed's case, he's looking at the combined system of a chain of hydrogen and deuterium atoms, purportedly held together by electromagnetic forces in a narrow crack, which is emitting low-energy photons. If we are attached to quantum mechanics, the implication is that there must be energy levels for the system as a whole, with a pair corresponding to the transition resulting in one of the low-energy photons that Ed describes, and each transition releasing potential energy in the atomic system so that it falls into a lower-energy state. There are some assumptions going on here that make it difficult to follow his argument any further. One is that this system of a chain of atoms ends up emitting photons that shed away part of the energy of the usually abrupt (quantum) transition from dd to the product 4He. So somehow our quantum system is not only an atomic system but also a nuclear system, that of the daughter 4He. All of those photons that are being emitted correspond not only to differences in energy levels in the atomic system which comprises a chain of hydrogen and deuterium atoms; we must also presume they correspond to differences in energy levels in the nuclear system of the daughter 4He. That implies that 4He must have many energy levels, with each photon that is carried away resulting from a transition between two of the many levels. But 4He has no bound states above the ground state. If you succeed in perturbing it into a higher energy state, it flies apart.


    To follow Ed's argument further, we must abandon quantum mechanics at the nuclear level, or we must allow many levels in the 4He system which were previously ruled out by experiment, or we must explain how you can have energy levels in the system of atoms as a whole but not in the daughter nuclei that are an outcome of Ed's process while at the same time carrying away energy related to the formation of the daughter nuclei.

  • Quote

    but most important is the need for many barriers that prevent the nucleus to fuse immediately after the coulomb barrier is overcome


    This is the other side of the same coin. The forces between particles are vacuum density gradient (space-time curvature) based. Once you decrease force responsible for Coulomb barrier, you're not only eliminating repulsive Coulombic forces, but also these attractive ones. No special mechanism is needed for the later. Therefore the people who are comfortable with absence of Coulombic barrier during cold fusion shouldn't get surprised, that this fusion also doesn't produce ionizing radiation. The actual problem for physics would emerge, if one of this two characteristics would be missing.


    On illustrative note, we can imagine the cold fusion like process of coalesce (merging) of mercury droplets. During their merging energy is apparently released and some droplets get ejected into an outside - this is an analogy of formation of gamma or neutrons during fusion. But the merging of droplets proceeds slowly, because of surface tension of mercury. The speed of merging could be increased with adding of catalyst - i.e. the salt which decreases the surface tension of mercury. But the same addition would also inhibit the ejection of droplets into outside.


    d6i4ify.gif

    • Official Post

    Eric Walker

    You wrote it as I should have. The NAE system need to have many energy level.

    As you say since it involve nuclei, strong force, it is breaking solid assumptions based on huge data...


    NB: I don't take the hydroton as Ed propose as an assumption, just his concept of NAE with an insulated composite object having a quantum state, like atom, or nucleus have.


    as you say, the intermediate energy level that the NAE should correspond to change in configuration of the NAE.

    since we assume the NAE is insulated, maybe like a Schrödinger kitten, maybe those intermediate state may be superposition of many classical states...

    let us say slight translations of the various nuclei distance, superposed and interfering...


    Once you assume a Schrödinger Kitten is created as the NAE, this does not seems so crazy?

    but making a kitten of that size, involving the nuclei states, strong force , is probably what make you say it is breaking known QM assumption.


    anyway LENR is breaking assumptions (or laws, but let's start with the easiest to repair), or it would be understood since long.

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