Wow!
Randell Mills must be working late
It's very bulky ...
BrLP like long documents. The validation reports from two or three of the "independent" validators were long and contained nearly the same text in some sections. Within the very similar sections, there were paragraphs that were repeated over and over that looked like they had been copied and pasted and modified only slightly. My hunch is that the reason for this is unrelated to conveying information and has instead to do with the psychology of their investors. For a nontechnical person, long documents with lots of technicalese must leave a big impression and are no doubt intimidating to read through and draw conclusions about.
And why should they intimidate someone nontechnical? Someone nontechnical has nothing to do with BLP. BLP needs Investors (which are not "nontechnical" because it is about millions of $) and is always looking for credible labs/universities to replicate their results. Neither of these parties is intimidated by a long report.
I have a much simpler explanation for the long documents: he has much to say. You wont find much repetition in the 1900 pages of GUTCP. And for the copy paste sections: have you ever read a bunch of papers about the same topic? The introduction sections are alway repetitive because you have to locate your current work presented in the paper in the wider context. If you read many papers from the same author you will find copy pastes everywhere. These validators observed the same set of experiments and where provided the same materials to show in their reports. Of course the basics were repeated over and over. Nothing wrong with that. I see something wrong in taking such a triviality and use it to cast a negative shadow on the work of the validators and Mills.
If you dont like Mills and dont believe in what he is doing than I think you should go with a bullet proof argument:
Mills promised an energy producing device in the late 90s and again in the late 00s and still has not delivered. And he is still taking investors money. And at leat 2 nobel laureats say his theory is BS.
@ Topic
I find page 60 and following quite interesting. It is obvious that they are really building a device and tackle one problem after the other. But I did not understand why they have to build shots and what is done with these shots.
Hi Epimetheus ,
My point pertained to the length of BrLP documents, which was on topic because it related to something Rob Woudenberg said about the patent, but only slightly so. If you wish to continue this discussion with me, perhaps we can take it to the playground thread, where I have replied to you.
I think he just wants to exhaust the patent examiners.
I took a spin through some other patents in the rocketry field, and there are many that are equally wordy and complex as this Mills patent. Not all, mind you, but many are. So I do not think Mills detractors can assign some nefarious reason to how he chooses to write up his patents, or his "like of long documents".
To me it is the way it is due the complexity of the Suncells engineering, the novelty, the cross discipline inputs from team members, and affiliates such as TMI Climate Solutions -a Berkshire-Hathaway company.
Another factor for the verbosity, may be that his is a defense strategy against the ever increasing sophistication of patent trolls and well funded competitors. Or even something as simple as Alan's point about confusing/exhausting the patent examiner...hopefully he misses the part about water being the fuel. 
On the other hand, laying everything out in such excruciating detail as Mills does, would seem to invite copy-catting by countries that have a history of not playing fair. But do they have something worth stealing?...that is the $60,000 question.
IMO, Mills certainly is checking all the blocks that legitimate inventors need to check to be believed. Many investors think so too, as BrLP has no trouble attracting their money. Many others such as Eric think otherwise. We shall see. After Rossi, I don't believe anything until the fat lady sings.
QuoteAnd why should they intimidate someone nontechnical? Someone nontechnical has nothing to do with BLP. BLP needs Investors (which are not "nontechnical" because it is about millions of $) and is always looking for credible labs/universities to replicate their results. Neither of these parties is intimidated by a long report.
Not so much intimidating but confusing and razzle-dazzling investors is the name of the game. Like Rossi did to IH. BLP has been making the SAME CLAIM to high power generators for DECADES and has never actually shown one properly measured and tested. And I predict they never will. 365 page patent apps are more their style along with books rewriting all of physics including the parts that are well known to work and have been so for decades or longer. BLP smells like Rossi. The smell is the same, the method is more sophisticated.
QuoteTo me it is the way it is due the complexity of the Suncells engineering, the novelty, the cross discipline inputs from team members, and affiliates such as TMI Climate Solutions -a Berkshire-Hathaway company.
Shane, please apply the Rossi lesson to BLP. IMHO, It's just a variant of the same thing. What is TMI doing for them? And why? And what does TMI's affiliation have to do with it? They are to BLP approximately like National Instruments was to Rossi. Last I looked, TMI has an excellent web site and a custom search of the site in Google revealed no mention whatsoever of BLP or Mills or anything about "suncells." Maybe that has changed but if so, someone please link it.
Shane, please apply the Rossi lesson to BLP. IMHO, It's just a variant of the same thing. What is TMI doing for them? And why? And what does TMI's affiliation have to do with it? They are to BLP approximately like National Instruments was to Rossi. Last I looked, TMI has an excellent web site and a custom search of the site in Google revealed no mention whatsoever of BLP or Mills or anything about "suncells." Maybe that has changed but if so, someone please link it.
Mary,
No comparison between BrLP and Rossi. Rossi never worked with NI...that was all Rossisays. BrLP in sharp contrast, is working with at least two very legitimate and serious engineering concerns. Not some loose collaboration either, as they are elbow to elbow ironing out the kinks. Neither did Rossi have a team of professionals around him like Mills...unless one considers his friends from the old country, Penon/Fabiani professionals in that sense. Rossi had no qualified BODs like BrLP (BEC's one and only strength BTW)...just his wife and 3rd rate lawyer friend Henry Johnson.
I would also like to add that BrLP has had credible validations done, whereas Rossi never did, but if I said that, Eric would make me prove it, so I won't say it.
That said...I do agree with you about applying the Rossi lesson to BLP. I will believe it when I see it. That however does not preclude pointing out the promising aspects about Mills Suncell.
I have not looked recently but 5 or so years ago, BLP "validations" including Rowan University were NOT credible. Working with two legitimate etc,.? Which two? I only know of the one and it doesn't even bother to list the work on its web page. The team around Mills has interesting research work and gets paid. It doesn't mean more than that. People and companies take good paying work, even if they are pretty certain it won't lead anywhere. I once worked for a research company that did exactly that with government contracts. I tried to disabuse them of it and they laughed at me.
What does mean something is Mills consistent picture of making grandiose claims for TWENTY YEARS and delivering nothing. What does matter is that all of Mills' demos are meaningless razzle dazzle with not one decent experiment and not one decent measurement. Shane, you are doing it all over again. You did not learn anything from Defkalion and Rossi (and Steorn and many others like them).
Neither did Rossi have a team of professionals around him like Mills...unless one considers his friends from the old country, Penon/Fabiani professionals in that sense.
How can you say that? What do we know about Rossi's collaborators? Penon and Fabiani are known because you've heard of them in the trial, otherwise you might not even know their names. Rossi has no reason to reveal the names of his collaborators, and that doesn't mean he is working alone. You do not have to come to conclusions when you don't have all the information you need.
Like Levi, both are/were either conspiring with Rossi or were so incompetent that Rossi totally hornswoggled them. I guess we could ask them which it was but I bet they won't tell.
How can you say that? What do we know about Rossi's collaborators? Penon and Fabiani are known because you've heard of them in the trial, otherwise you might not even know their names. Rossi has no reason to reveal the names of his collaborators, and that doesn't mean he is working alone. You do not have to come to conclusions when you don't have all the information you need.
SSC,
Penon and FF were not even collaborators. A better description would be part of Rossi's gang -the Italian prosecutor stated that Rossi was the ring leader of a criminal gang, as they destroyed key data, and deleted emails to Rossi to cover their scam.
Other than those two, the only one that might fit that description (collaborator) would be Dr. Cook. However, Cook cut ties with Rossi a couple years back. Dewey I think talked with him, and he described his relationship with Rossi, as distant and casual. He basically took Rossi at his word on the integrity of the Lugano ash that he put his reputation on the line when proposing his theory. Yep, that Rossi knows how to treat his "friends"!
So, other than Gullstrom (poor guy), there is no one else. Well, maybe you can say the Swedes are, maybe even Levi, but do you have some evidence of any others. I have never heard Rossisay he worked with anyone else. Hard to hide that kind of thing don't you think? He only had a couple employees on payroll -plumber and James Bass, so where are these other collaborators? Or will they remain invisible like the mezzazine heat exchanger?
Seems to me, Rossi is fading fast into the background, laughable even, and if his handful of supporters left on the planet want to bring him back to the forefront, they had better start giving some real, verifiable proof (hear me Siffer?) he has something. I can tell you this: what you are doing is not working! You can try all you want to rewrite the "trial", whitewash Rossi's abhorrent actions vis a vis JMP, spoliation, etc., but it will not work.
Penon is an absolute joker. I know he's heard of a steam meter, yet he "chose" to measure enthalpy with a pressure gauge and thermometer.
Penon is also the individual who, in July 2012, first tested Rossi's high temperature tube furnaces (hot cats or whatever). And he and Rossi developed the measurement methods for those experiments. Once again, I will save readers the trouble to look it up. It's here:
...
@ShaneD
QuoteWell, maybe you can say the Swedes are, maybe even Levi [were conspirators?]
Just from reading what has been written by and about the Swedes, I would find it VERY surprising if they conspired with Rossi. I deleted the rest of this post because the admins seem extra crispy this weekend about anything disparaging said with reference to the illustrious Levi. Anyway, it makes no difference. From now on, anyone swindled by Rossi really seriously deserves it and rather than caring about it, I will join all the others laughing. If it happens.
Thought that would have been a wig day, if any.
