Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread

  • Bob - Well, sorry you feel that way. I have done my best, but in the face of a flood of other reports (Mats, ECW's rep) it seemed unreasonable to write up much of the same things again. I do remain gently skeptical but in general I am positive that Rossi has got something real, and I am not alone in that. If I had no hope, I would not have gone, but as someone there said to me 'This is the hottest ticket in maverick science'.


    Nothing I didn't see has made me change my mind about Rossi's general flakiness, but nothing I saw has made me want to disavow the man. If donors thought they were paying for a Damascene conversion, they are doomed to disappointment, since I am not so easily bought. And anyone who would like their cash back on the grounds that they donated expecting me to rubbish Rossi on my return only has to ask. I should remind you that I never asked for donations, they were volunteered, much to my surprise -they certainly made it easier for me to go, and I did appeal for people to stop donating when it yielded enough to cover my flight and hotel. I remain grateful for the support, as it helps me to continue with my own support of researchers with materials and equipment 'pro bono'. I try to give back at least as much as I receive.


    ps. Sincerely glad the market is looking after you, in 2008 I did a lot of looking after the market. But some things will defy gravity, at least for a while.

    I am glad the market is looking good as well. Yes there are ups and downs as with most everything in life!


    I fully agree and recognize that you did not ask for any donations. That was not the gist of my post. Perhaps this is related more to a personality trait than anything else.

    If I were to state that I was going to give a full unbiased report, I would hope that I would make the call clearly stated on the facts that are documented. Not hoped for.


    I.E. If I went to a demo that was making claims and the demo was shown to be completely invalid of those claims. I would simply report that in no uncertain terms. Such as "the claims are unfounded and cannot be backed up by the presented demo or data". Or "the demo was conducted in a manner that dramatically deviated from simple and standard scientific protocol. " Or "It is mysterious why such attempts to obscure or hide valid data or measurements". Or "then demo has followed a long history of blantent misdirection or simply incompetence".


    By not being realistic in reporting, Rossi is simply empowered to continue to go down a path that deviates greatly from standard scientific rigor. When "scientists" refuse to call him on this, it dramatically tarnishes their own reputations. It does the LENR "cause" no good either. I do not really care that "other smart people think this or that". If they will not publish their thoughts, their thoughts are not worth reading, as I for one, cannot read minds.


    I can be hopeful for someone, I can even have faith or some level of belief that something is real. But I can still call a spade a spade and I think that will actually improve the prospects for the subject in the long run.


    For a long time, my statement has been this.... "Rossi believers dream up excuses, defenses and "how this could be done" because Rossi cannot or does not defend himself". As a matter of fact, it is apparent that Rossi reads his supporter's conjectures and then folds them into his story. This is NOT helping LENR become a reality. Rossi supporters NEED to start holding him accountable.


    However, "most" are too afraid to stand up to him or just like Frank Ackland, you will get banned from the "inner circle" ! NO DOUBTERS ALLOWED!


    This is no longer a "victimless" story! Rossi walked away with $11 MILLION dollars of money and the investors received ZERO from it. You apparently think that is OK and Rossi was justified. Rossi meanwhile, does not even think HIMSELF that what he got $11 MILLION for is worth pursuing.


    And yet you seem to want to communicate that "Rossi's past licensees" are all happy and smiling! I do not understand your logic at all. Can you tell me this.... the demo was in Europe. Europe is under the license of Hydrofusion, which you have stated is all hunky dory with Rossi. Were THEY present at this demo? Did THEY sponsor and assist putting it on? If not, WHY NOT. They are the licensee!

  • The takeaway is suppose is that there must be a USB connection to the power control unit so that it can be controlled by the laptop.

    My guess is that the switch on the side of the power control is the enabler for the kick start voltage spike.


    "Reactance Engineering, Inc." is a business in Florida near Miami.


    Industrial Heat's James A. Bass: President of Reactance Engineering Inc and Engineer for JM Products


    Didn't some hardened skeptic previously propose here that there probably was some sort of non-resistive component inside the Quark X ? That would go along well with what the company name suggests/hints, the shown high frequency waveform, and that "reactance is is the opposition of a circuit element to a change in current or voltage" (and also, as a company name "reactance" wouldn't sound very nice if it wasn't something they specifically worked with). I thought this would have been fuel for imagination for both skeptics and proponents, to be honest.


    Why would Bass (wasn't he an Industrial Heat guy?) still be working with Rossi et al, by the way?

  • Tony . Re #829 above.


    I'm not myself a fan of conspiracy theories. No such conspiracy is needed to explain Rossi. He needs a very few supporters who accept what he (Rossi) claims and not look ask critical questions about the technical stuff. Rossi tends to kep a very small number of very close workers (Fabioni and Levi) perhaps now Bass too. These people appear totally convinced by Rossi's stuff. Given that Rossi is charismatic and passionate about his work (or, as MY would say, good at seeming this) it is easy for people to buy quite honestly into things bit by bit that when looked at objectively as a whole seem like something they could never do.


    So I don't see the necessity for any conspiracy, and myself tend not to go that direction. Equally, should one of Rossi's co-workers be well aware that Rossi's stuff does not work (how BTW could they know that, since you cannot prove a negative?), such a person with a close long-standing relationship would not make a conspiracy.


    I'm thinking you mention conspiracy theories here attacking a straw man when mainly the conspiracies suggested here are from Rossi believers, not skeptics.


    As for Alan's perspective. I think people can get convinced of things and then not let them go, fitting all evidence to a belief. You are at liberty to view the unsubstantiated judgement of Alan as (to you) convincing. For me anything so clearly supported and publicly espoused without substantiating reasons is a warning sign: in that case I reckon the messenger is not open, or intrinsically biased. However I don't see this as a reason to pose conspiracy, perhaps you differ from me there.

  • Adrian Ashfield

    December 1, 2017 at 11:20 AM


    Dear Andrea Rossi:

    You say the E-Cat QX worked at limited power during the Stockholm event at the
    IVA (20 W). What is its real power?

    Regards,

    Adrian Ashfield


    Andrea Rossi

    December 1, 2017 at 12:31 PM


    Adrian Ashfield:

    Average 60 W, max for continuous operation 100 W

    Warm Regards,

    A.R.



  • If you quote you should quote including the spelling mistakes :rolleyes:

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-…cpage=289#comment-1301046

  • Try order cards 1-10 in a deck so that when you turn up the first card, it's 1, then you count 1 and remove the first card and put it last, and then turn the upmost card

    again and get 2, likewise count 1,2 and then turn the upward card and get 3, continue through the whole deck and we have defined our order. The question is how

    to find this order. I do it like this, I take 10 other cards with the value down and then I start from the left and put 1 to the left, count one empty and the put 2 down

    likewise, count 2 empty ones in order and put 3 down on the third and so on, when you get to the end you begin count the empty cards from the beginning and so on. finally you

    will have your order. Try it, it's a kind of math magic.


    I got this association from thinking that we all play a kind of game. We try to put facts down and change the unknown to known and get a story that we agree with. I kind

    of understand that if you start your facts on that it a'int probable that Rossi is faking for what on earth would he gain, he is already rich, and works his but's off even coming

    to an age you get by tweaking the story that I as a critic sort of follow. My main judgment to be critical though is from the story where Rossi told Darden (in an email)

    how he deliberately fooled the Swedes. I have personally experienced similar events in my life and I have nothing good to say about those intriguing like that, It's a really

    awful behavior in my experience and book. The other facts have been spelled out quite clearly that acknowledge this, sure both sides find glaring problems that ain't so

    but remember there is a nuclear reaction cooking in a kitchen cooker, we should all be skeptical of anything like that, although we should await facts we should keep on

    pondering to the n00bs, be carefuil!, be careful!.

  • My main judgment to be critical though is from the story where Rossi told Darden (in an email)

    how he deliberately fooled the Swedes


    Agreed, but there is probably a lot more to it neither we or IH knows about (why would they otherwise include these emails?) Hydrofusion obviously attended the Stockholm demo "in strength" as Alan put it?

  • Regarding the oscilloscope used for the demo, is not the reference ground of the probe grounded to Earth ground? Can it just be attached to the circuit without consequence?

    Should the probe connections be swapped so cavalierly?


    See PDF page 133 (document page 113) of the user manual, plus other notes (PDF page 13, doc page vii)

  • Mirror, mirror....

    Alan,


    If you were critical of Rossi’s “demo”,

    He would not invite you back to future

    Presentations.

    I understand why you would not voice any objections or ask any questions Rossi would be hard pressed to answer.


    But if this is how you are going to move forward with Rossi/Ecat, what makes you different than every other Rossi yes man?

  • Regarding the oscilloscope used for the demo, is not the reference ground of the probe grounded to Earth ground? Can it just be attached to the circuit without consequence?

    Should the probe connections be swapped so cavalierly?


    See PDF page 133 (document page 113) of the user manual, plus other notes (PDF page 13, doc page vii)



  • If you were critical of Rossi’s “demo”,

    He would not invite you back to future

    Presentations.

    I understand why you would not voice any objections or ask any questions Rossi would be hard pressed to answer.

    But if this is how you are going to move forward with Rossi/Ecat, what makes you different than every other Rossi yes man?



    I think the key difference is that I don't deal in insults. If you have a question to ask, frame it in a civil manner and I might answer. Possibly.

  • Alan,


    Nothing wrong with you believing in Rossi. IMO, a lot of your belief hinges on your LFH customer feedback. According to you, some have reported XH, at least giving you a basis to think Rossi....after all the mess he causes, still has something. Same goes with BH, and MFMP who have seen enough through their own work to hold out a little hope. I guess you could also say the same for Parkomov and SongSheng.


    However, I do also think you did a disservice to us by telling us you were going to the DPS to "report". Reporting to most means being objective, and unbiased...unfortunately, you were anything but that. Maybe had you explained a little better what we could expect, our expectations would not have been what they were.


    I still do not understand how someone with your skills could walk away from there convinced Rossi has a legitimate new product in the QX? In fact, there does seem to be this huge opinion gap between those who attended, and those who did not. That is very interesting to most of us. What did those see there, that we did not? And I am not talking just about here. ECW seems to have turned largely away from Rossi, just because this was to them a DPS. Not the regulars there of course, even though they initially seemed to be saying "WTF", before digging down deep to stay Rossi fans.

  • Was this guy making fun of those attending the DPS (not that I would agree), or just an innocent comment? Funny either way:


    1. December 2, 2017 at 12:57 PM

      Dr Andrea Rossi,

      I watched today the video of the demo in Stockolm and I am shocked: the E-Cat, the clear simplicity of the measurements, the honesty of the use of the oscilloscope, the geniality of the dummies, the high profile of the attendants, all these factors have made your demo a masterpiece. I believe within one, two years the Ecat QX will be in the market.

      Excellent.

      Jan

    2. Andrea Rossi December 2, 2017 at 6:53 PM

      Jan:

      Thank you for your attention to our work.

      Warm Regards,

      A.R.