Alan,
Do you know if any skeptics have been invited, or is it just his supporters?
That is too broad a question to answer properly. I know of two, there may be others. I have yet to take the rubber hose and bright lights to the audience.
Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread
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That is too broad a question to answer properly. I know of two, there may be others. I have yet to take the rubber hose and bright lights to the audience.
Thank you Alan,
May I ask if you are going there looking for a trick? And also, how will you determine the DPS is a success, or alternatively, a failure? Or does any of that matter?
Take care, and safe passage to Sweden.
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Has Miami moved to Sweden?
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After some thinking...
about spoof links to ECW, and why not ISCMNS, the content of the link may also be pure bandits trying to exploit the sudden interest on LENR and E-cat because of the demo.
My feeling is that LENR and E-cat is not interesting power that be, but just a small community of supporters and a wide group of curious non specialists, probably a valuable crowd for bandits.
there is no interest in preventing access to ISCMNS, while not blocking LENR-CANR, the most valuable site on LENR, and the E-ca demo will be enough documented and commented in next semester so that blocking e-cat world is useless...
I have also this reasoning to eliminate many conspiracy theory, as as a conspirator against LENR I know who I should kill, which sites I should put down. Many people, less sites. It we were target of blacksuits, some old supporters would not be alive, as many scientists we know. Rossi and our peanut gallery would not be a problem then, if not helping to destroy LENR image.
I rather think some crook just want to exploit the temporary fame to sell pills, or increase advertising income.
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I agree that this is very unlikely to be the work of the MIB. A topic that creates as much excessive heat as LENR will attract free-lance hackers and FUD-meisters with many different motivations *. So even in the (unlikely) event they wanted to spoil the party, the PTB can leave it alone, safe in the knowledge that someone else will do it for them without payment or prompting.
* As well as the rest of us, of course.
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Alan wrote " A topic that creates as much excessive heat as LENR"
do you mean anomalous heat?
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Alan knows calorimetry, but spotting the trickery may be difficult for him.
If there is trickery it would be impossible to spot almost certainly. And you must admit that if there was (in some unfathomable way) zero possibility of trickery then we would have nothing but football to argue about for the next 6 months.
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Why is Rossi keeping his "demo" or "test" or whatever he might have to show so secret? Best thing that could happen is a huge broad medial interest for his new energy source, doesn't matter if he is looking for one or more prominent big partner or if he had already one, as communicated by him. He could have easily created a worldwide interest for his QX. He now seems to end up with a few of his long term supporters as usual as potential customers for the best deal the world has ever seen since sliced bread. What a pity! To me this well selected and prepared DPS doesn't make any sense, esp. from a business perspective. Kind of déjà-vu...
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Mary,
Alan knows calorimetry, but spotting the trickery may be difficult for him. That is why anything less than a true independent test is a waste IMO. No doubt Rossi will make it interesting as he always does, but it will prove nothing. Rossi is an old pro at this, and has fooled others before. Only difference now is that he has more people in attendance than ever before. That shows he is confident he will not get caught, or for our Rossi faithful...he is certain he has something real (very doubtful).
Rossi knows that however blatant the errors, he can bluff it out and his fans will find excuses for him. IHFB, for example, might view this public demo as a ruse designed to prevent competition from taking his work seriously. ECW guys will be very inventive in finding some technical solution, however unlikely, which makes observed events consistent with the device working.
He does not have that hard a job. And of course he is good at putting on a show. i don't think he worries about technical accuracy. His goal will be the adulation of those present (who it would seem are all predisposed to give him the benefit of the doubt) and beyond that his supporters who do the same. So the more doubt the better, and given Rossi's minimalist approach to instrumentation there will likely be lots of doubt.
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I think that providing for the simple act of making a cup of e-cat heated hot water for tea for attendees would go
a looong politically,way to humor his detractors. C'mon peoples. lighten up.
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My feeling is that LENR and E-cat is not interesting power that be, but just a small community of supporters and a wide group of curious non specialists, probably a valuable crowd for bandits.
I know some major companies, like Boeing, are following this, but are waiting for proof before getting actively involved. It's possible, but I doubt it, that some major industry, that would suffer if LENR surfaced, would take direct action. It would be too easy to trace.
The current attacks on ECW are probably from some troll who feels passionately they are saving the world from fraud, but as one can't invest in it, it is hard to see how.
If there is trickery it would be impossible to spot almost certainly. And you must admit that if there was (in some unfathomable way) zero possibility of trickery then we would have nothing but football to argue about for the next 6 months.
I doubt there will be any magician's magic tricks. It looks like the heat output will be measured accurately as described. The power input is a different story: if Rossi feels it is proprietary he may not provide sufficient measurements to remove doubt.
I suspect you Alan and many at the demo, will notice this if it happens.
Rossi knows that however blatent the errors, he can bluff it out and his fans will find excuses for him. IHFB, for example, might view this public demo as a ruse designed to prevent competition from taking his work seriously. ECW guys will be very inventive in finding some technical solution, however unlikely, which makes observed events consistent with the device working.
This is just your usual toxic opinion for what you have no evidence. See my comment above for the most likely reason proof will be lacking. I remain reasonably optimistic as Rossi really needs to provide proof positiveat this stage.
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Quote
If there is trickery it would be impossible to spot almost certainly.
far as I know, the only time trickery was actually demonstrated conclusively was with the large steam ecat that contained a countercurrent heat exchanger. Output temperature was measured with a thermocouple clearly placed on the outside of a tube near the hottest portion of the heat exchanger! It should have been located far downstream of the exchanger and in the center of the water output tube. Obviously, this was calculated and deliberate and not intended to have been seen.
The rest of the time, the issue was always unknown, improper or inadequate measurement methods or measurements. And of course, the huge bug in ALL Rossi demonstration and experiments was the lack of blank runs with calibration from Joule (electrical) heat. And that despite the fact that EVERY Rossi device contains one or more huge-mongous heaters!
I would not expect a transparent trick here. I'd expect some sort of razzle dazzle light and/or heat show (a la BrLP) which tells the observers absolutely nothing. As someone else said, observers will probably have no clue how input power was measured. Rossi may cheat with input, output, or both or they will be so vaguely determined that nobody will be able to tell.
Having said all that, who knows? Rossi is getting old and I'd imagine he is getting tired. He has to be looking for a very low common denominator of investor -- who else would believe him at this point without EXTENSIVE and INDEPENDENT testing which he would never allow? I've never been able to predict what exactly Rossi will do for any given occasion. That's part of the fun of watching. Sort of like a slow and very messy trainwreck that goes on for years. What fun! (unless, of course, you are an investor, a partner or a distributor or a scientist or journalist with a reputation who writes about believing Rossi -- then it's not fun at all).
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The attacks on ECW are puzzling. The site is, at worst, annoying. It's otherwise quite harmless inasmuch as it mainly serves as a showcase for people with no idea what they are talking about. I can see someone bothering to monkey with one of Rossi's sites but I find it hard to understand why anyone would bother with Acland. Of course, his past record of understanding technology is so poor, maybe the problem is that he left the site wide open for exploitation and someone unrelated to issues discussed on the site, messed with him for practice or entertainment. Otherwise, it makes little sense.
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I know that if the men in black were on the domain, I would have a car accident, as many of my contact, after the core LENR team we all identify is erased (the librarians and the scientists).
Some people in the real decision making world are interested, and have the same position as Jed, maybe more openminded ... considering that some actors are maybe "the liar who believe in his own lies", but that there is work to do. Recently I've been surprised because they were sent to do something (research, collaboration) to develop their own territory, not too afraid of others opinion.
There is no fear about LENR for PTB, because as soon as LENR is developed by one actor, it will be replicated and improved everywhere, and solve most problems of the PTB. Anyway, the MIB are made of lone people who are afraid to lose their suit ... some make reports, and they even put it public, then the report is read and kept for later.
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@Mary Yugo ,
Don't forget the "Ottoman" being switched on two hours before the water was turned on.
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He has to be looking for a very low common denominator of investor
Explain what that is. Name names if possible.
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Darden comes to mind. He did several stupid things:
1) Failing to require a proper test of the ORIGINAL simple, small, highly efficient ecat that Levi supposedly got terrific results with
2) Failing to have a qualified test lab verify the operation of the ecat including correct calibrations
3) Giving Rossi $10+ millions based on an inane "test" done for 24 hours by someone who worked with Rossi
4) Agreeing to allow Penon to be the "ERV" (or whatever) -- did he not know that Penon certified (erroneously) one of Rossi's earliest tests? And was a friend of Rossi's?
5) Agreeing to a one year test, poorly specified, not necessary, badly designed, irrelevant and using pieces of junk which supposedly had been sold to others.
6) Trusting a convicted felon with nothing but failures and disasters in his clear-cut history most of which was in the open on the internet.
Woodford for signing on to that disaster.
Rossi is looking for someone who will not do proper diligence because they are afraid to offend him and miss out on the opportunity. That worked in the past but I doubt very much that it will work now. Basically, Rossi is looking for a gullible and desirous person with money who has not kept up with what he has done and has little or no knowledge of the case Rossi vs IH vs Rossi, as far as it got. I will be shocked if he gets one but stranger things have happened.
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I am sure that Tom Darden will be delighted to hear that you consider him 'low, stupid, and common'. I expect Dewey will pass your judgement on to him.
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I am sure that Tom Darden will be delighted to hear that you consider him 'low, stupid, and common'. I expect Dewey will pass your judgement on to him.
It does seem harsh. Naive would be better, perhaps with a slight dash of negligent. Or perhaps his advisers were incompetent. However, the can is his to carry.
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What is so much wrong with the points 1-6 above? After all I found it really difficult to understand how and why an (otherwise serious?) investor has been fooled and convinced to pay 11.5 Mio, based on his (missing? or at least bad) due diligence - and didn't stop that fake deal shortly after it has started or after a couple of months. The fact that there was no production nor any logistics (no in- and out-traffic if goods) didn't ring a bell, it seems. There were more signs...
