Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread

  • Alan,


    Do you know if any skeptics have been invited, or is it just his supporters?


    That is too broad a question to answer properly. I know of two, there may be others. I have yet to take the rubber hose and bright lights to the audience.

  • That is too broad a question to answer properly. I know of two, there may be others. I have yet to take the rubber hose and bright lights to the audience.


    Thank you Alan,


    May I ask if you are going there looking for a trick? And also, how will you determine the DPS is a success, or alternatively, a failure? Or does any of that matter?


    Take care, and safe passage to Sweden.

  • After some thinking...

    about spoof links to ECW, and why not ISCMNS, the content of the link may also be pure bandits trying to exploit the sudden interest on LENR and E-cat because of the demo.

    My feeling is that LENR and E-cat is not interesting power that be, but just a small community of supporters and a wide group of curious non specialists, probably a valuable crowd for bandits.


    there is no interest in preventing access to ISCMNS, while not blocking LENR-CANR, the most valuable site on LENR, and the E-ca demo will be enough documented and commented in next semester so that blocking e-cat world is useless...

    I have also this reasoning to eliminate many conspiracy theory, as as a conspirator against LENR I know who I should kill, which sites I should put down. Many people, less sites. It we were target of blacksuits, some old supporters would not be alive, as many scientists we know. Rossi and our peanut gallery would not be a problem then, if not helping to destroy LENR image.


    I rather think some crook just want to exploit the temporary fame to sell pills, or increase advertising income.

  • AlainCo


    I agree that this is very unlikely to be the work of the MIB. A topic that creates as much excessive heat as LENR will attract free-lance hackers and FUD-meisters with many different motivations *. So even in the (unlikely) event they wanted to spoil the party, the PTB can leave it alone, safe in the knowledge that someone else will do it for them without payment or prompting.


    * As well as the rest of us, of course.

  • Alan knows calorimetry, but spotting the trickery may be difficult for him.


    If there is trickery it would be impossible to spot almost certainly. And you must admit that if there was (in some unfathomable way) zero possibility of trickery then we would have nothing but football to argue about for the next 6 months.

  • Why is Rossi keeping his "demo" or "test" or whatever he might have to show so secret? Best thing that could happen is a huge broad medial interest for his new energy source, doesn't matter if he is looking for one or more prominent big partner or if he had already one, as communicated by him. He could have easily created a worldwide interest for his QX. He now seems to end up with a few of his long term supporters as usual as potential customers for the best deal the world has ever seen since sliced bread. What a pity! To me this well selected and prepared DPS doesn't make any sense, esp. from a business perspective. Kind of déjà-vu...

  • Mary,


    Alan knows calorimetry, but spotting the trickery may be difficult for him. That is why anything less than a true independent test is a waste IMO. No doubt Rossi will make it interesting as he always does, but it will prove nothing. Rossi is an old pro at this, and has fooled others before. Only difference now is that he has more people in attendance than ever before. That shows he is confident he will not get caught, or for our Rossi faithful...he is certain he has something real (very doubtful).


    Rossi knows that however blatant the errors, he can bluff it out and his fans will find excuses for him. IHFB, for example, might view this public demo as a ruse designed to prevent competition from taking his work seriously. ECW guys will be very inventive in finding some technical solution, however unlikely, which makes observed events consistent with the device working.


    He does not have that hard a job. And of course he is good at putting on a show. i don't think he worries about technical accuracy. His goal will be the adulation of those present (who it would seem are all predisposed to give him the benefit of the doubt) and beyond that his supporters who do the same. So the more doubt the better, and given Rossi's minimalist approach to instrumentation there will likely be lots of doubt.

  • My feeling is that LENR and E-cat is not interesting power that be, but just a small community of supporters and a wide group of curious non specialists, probably a valuable crowd for bandits.

    I know some major companies, like Boeing, are following this, but are waiting for proof before getting actively involved. It's possible, but I doubt it, that some major industry, that would suffer if LENR surfaced, would take direct action. It would be too easy to trace.

    The current attacks on ECW are probably from some troll who feels passionately they are saving the world from fraud, but as one can't invest in it, it is hard to see how.

    If there is trickery it would be impossible to spot almost certainly. And you must admit that if there was (in some unfathomable way) zero possibility of trickery then we would have nothing but football to argue about for the next 6 months.

    I doubt there will be any magician's magic tricks. It looks like the heat output will be measured accurately as described. The power input is a different story: if Rossi feels it is proprietary he may not provide sufficient measurements to remove doubt.

    I suspect you Alan and many at the demo, will notice this if it happens.

    Rossi knows that however blatent the errors, he can bluff it out and his fans will find excuses for him. IHFB, for example, might view this public demo as a ruse designed to prevent competition from taking his work seriously. ECW guys will be very inventive in finding some technical solution, however unlikely, which makes observed events consistent with the device working.

    This is just your usual toxic opinion for what you have no evidence. See my comment above for the most likely reason proof will be lacking. I remain reasonably optimistic as Rossi really needs to provide proof positiveat this stage.

  • Quote

    If there is trickery it would be impossible to spot almost certainly.

    far as I know, the only time trickery was actually demonstrated conclusively was with the large steam ecat that contained a countercurrent heat exchanger. Output temperature was measured with a thermocouple clearly placed on the outside of a tube near the hottest portion of the heat exchanger! It should have been located far downstream of the exchanger and in the center of the water output tube. Obviously, this was calculated and deliberate and not intended to have been seen.


    The rest of the time, the issue was always unknown, improper or inadequate measurement methods or measurements. And of course, the huge bug in ALL Rossi demonstration and experiments was the lack of blank runs with calibration from Joule (electrical) heat. And that despite the fact that EVERY Rossi device contains one or more huge-mongous heaters!


    I would not expect a transparent trick here. I'd expect some sort of razzle dazzle light and/or heat show (a la BrLP) which tells the observers absolutely nothing. As someone else said, observers will probably have no clue how input power was measured. Rossi may cheat with input, output, or both or they will be so vaguely determined that nobody will be able to tell.


    Having said all that, who knows? Rossi is getting old and I'd imagine he is getting tired. He has to be looking for a very low common denominator of investor -- who else would believe him at this point without EXTENSIVE and INDEPENDENT testing which he would never allow? I've never been able to predict what exactly Rossi will do for any given occasion. That's part of the fun of watching. Sort of like a slow and very messy trainwreck that goes on for years. What fun! (unless, of course, you are an investor, a partner or a distributor or a scientist or journalist with a reputation who writes about believing Rossi -- then it's not fun at all).

  • The attacks on ECW are puzzling. The site is, at worst, annoying. It's otherwise quite harmless inasmuch as it mainly serves as a showcase for people with no idea what they are talking about. I can see someone bothering to monkey with one of Rossi's sites but I find it hard to understand why anyone would bother with Acland. Of course, his past record of understanding technology is so poor, maybe the problem is that he left the site wide open for exploitation and someone unrelated to issues discussed on the site, messed with him for practice or entertainment. Otherwise, it makes little sense.

  • I know that if the men in black were on the domain, I would have a car accident, as many of my contact, after the core LENR team we all identify is erased (the librarians and the scientists).

    Some people in the real decision making world are interested, and have the same position as Jed, maybe more openminded ... considering that some actors are maybe "the liar who believe in his own lies", but that there is work to do. Recently I've been surprised because they were sent to do something (research, collaboration) to develop their own territory, not too afraid of others opinion.


    There is no fear about LENR for PTB, because as soon as LENR is developed by one actor, it will be replicated and improved everywhere, and solve most problems of the PTB. Anyway, the MIB are made of lone people who are afraid to lose their suit ... some make reports, and they even put it public, then the report is read and kept for later.

  • Darden comes to mind. He did several stupid things:


    1) Failing to require a proper test of the ORIGINAL simple, small, highly efficient ecat that Levi supposedly got terrific results with


    2) Failing to have a qualified test lab verify the operation of the ecat including correct calibrations


    3) Giving Rossi $10+ millions based on an inane "test" done for 24 hours by someone who worked with Rossi


    4) Agreeing to allow Penon to be the "ERV" (or whatever) -- did he not know that Penon certified (erroneously) one of Rossi's earliest tests? And was a friend of Rossi's?


    5) Agreeing to a one year test, poorly specified, not necessary, badly designed, irrelevant and using pieces of junk which supposedly had been sold to others.


    6) Trusting a convicted felon with nothing but failures and disasters in his clear-cut history most of which was in the open on the internet.


    Woodford for signing on to that disaster.


    Rossi is looking for someone who will not do proper diligence because they are afraid to offend him and miss out on the opportunity. That worked in the past but I doubt very much that it will work now. Basically, Rossi is looking for a gullible and desirous person with money who has not kept up with what he has done and has little or no knowledge of the case Rossi vs IH vs Rossi, as far as it got. I will be shocked if he gets one but stranger things have happened.

  • What is so much wrong with the points 1-6 above? After all I found it really difficult to understand how and why an (otherwise serious?) investor has been fooled and convinced to pay 11.5 Mio, based on his (missing? or at least bad) due diligence - and didn't stop that fake deal shortly after it has started or after a couple of months. The fact that there was no production nor any logistics (no in- and out-traffic if goods) didn't ring a bell, it seems. There were more signs...

  • An investor who cannot or will not use Google deserves to lose his/her shirt

  • AA said: I remain reasonably optimistic as Rossi really needs to provide proof positive at this stage.


    That would be a reason for positivity under the complex and unlikely hypothesis that all of Rossi's failed ecat tests and investor relationships so far were somehow deliberate on Rossi's part. If his stuff does work he has been getting old not exploiting it when to do that would have been very easy.


    Much simpler: the tests fail because Rossi has never had anything that works, except a well developed capacity to convince others.

  • Quote

    I am sure that Tom Darden will be delighted to hear that you consider him 'low, stupid, and common'. I expect Dewey will pass your judgement on to him.

    First, I doubt that Mr. Darden gives one tiny flying f**k what I think or consider him and I could not care less what Dewey, Huey and Louie tell him. Second, I said what I thought about the type of investing his ACTIONS suggest he carried out in the Rossi case. That is mostly based on the pretrial transcript. I do not know Mr. Darden nor his history. I can not speculate on his abilities or motivation and if anything I said in the past suggests that, I regret it and withdraw it.


    There are number of possible explanations for the obvious, exquisitely dumbass way Darden and company went about dealing with Andrea Rossi. One, as someone noted, was that he had incompetent advice. Surely, that has to be at least in part the reason. It could also be all sorts of things I would have no way to know -- a personal problem, illness in the family, too many things requiring his attention, burnout or PTSD, etc. etc. etc. I have no idea about his reasoning nor have I ever claimed to have. What I do know is he ACTED **IN MY OPINION** in a negligent and incompetent manner with respect to the dealings with Andrea Rossi and he did it for going on a full year. THAT is self-evident from the records. I know NOTHING ELSE about Mr. Darden or his abilities and do not claim to. I hope that is clear now. You, Alan, like Jed Rothwell, have an unpleasant way of imputing sentiments, actions and thoughts to people with insufficient reasons or simply wrong reasons. Your statement above is a florid example.


    Of course, if you take issue with my six points above, which I think are mostly objective, please make your best argument and refutation of them.


    I hope you have a smooth trip and lots of fun attending what is certainly going to be a meaningless Rossi show.

  • I do not know who Mike Merlin of: http://ecat-fraud.com/ is, but he reminds me of Gary Wright (Free Energy Scams)...who he quotes.


    This most recent article from 5 days ago, does a good job of chronicling some of Rossi's early lies. Even as far back as April 2011, which I somehow missed. Hopefully AA does not read it, as it may address some of his denials.


    Also, it is a good reminder for those attending the upcoming DPS, as it shows just a little of their hosts history of crazy claims.

  • I thought this comment from Bob Greenyer on DISQUS is pertinent to the demo and plenty more..


    https://disqus.com/home/discus…lease/#comment-3623870592


    Bob Greenyer3 hours ago

    My comments on youtube are now often shadow banned - it appears to be AI as it is instantaneous. By shadow banning, you can still see your comment on your account, but if I look at the video via someone else's account my comments are not there.

    Also, a good number of videos I have linked to have then been taken down. I have been posting into the steemit blockchain this year however, dragged and dropped images on steemit are currently uploaded to AWS and several of my articles have had certain sensitive images deleted from AWS. I will now have to start uploading images to another location I control.

    The internet is being broken.

    If you see a video that you think has important material in it, don't expect it to be there tomorrow, download a local copy using https://hooktube.com/