Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread

Quote from Valeriy Tarasov

Just some conclusions from the demonstration:

1. The wire (the diameter less than 0.08 mm) made of NiAlLi – the fuel is placed in tube made of high temperature resistance material (temperature conductive).

2. The electric current flowing through the fuel is modulated and is the real activator of LENR – mainly the fission of Li. Thus, the fuel has electrical contact with control block modulating the input power.

3. LEN reaction is accompanying by generation of electric impulses able to pass to control block and they should be stopped to prevent the control box damage. These pulses generation is direct electricity generation from LENR and can be utilized.

What is the role of the plasma? Is it necessary for the generation of the excess heat or is it a byproduct of the heat?

Quote

Is it really a wire?

All is an assumption.

As I have got from video (can be wrong), 0.6 mm is an active zone of fuel, so the tube itself can be a centimetre long, since you need connectors parts at both ends at least.

Quote from Bruce__H

What is the role of the plasma? Is it necessary for the generation of the excess heat or is it a byproduct of the heat?

At temperature 2000 °C, Li in gas phase (boiling point 1330 °C), Ni and Al are melted, so H is going in-out of Ni and H+ reacts with Li resulting in Li nuclei fission. If plasma is mix of Li+, H+ and electrons so plasma is source of heat. But, what is really the plasma in this case is open question.

One more question, based exclusively on my theoretical speculations. Why size is so small ? Besides the convenience to control, I see the dimension around 10 in order minus 4 - 5 meter is critical.

Quote from maryyugo

I am going to guess it's probably some sort of dielectric heating.

Using big words you don't understand Mary? Did you see any RF waveguides in the photos?

Well, things are progressing according to the schedule I posted last month:

1) Rossi announces an upcoming pivotal event

2) Rossi supporters become very excited and conveniently forget everything that happened in the past. They proclaim that skeptics will soon be eating crow by the bucketful.

3) Supporters and skeptics argue vociferously for weeks on end before the "event"

4) The event happens and it is sort of what was anticipated but not quite

5) Supporters are ecstatic declaring the dawn of a new age

6) Skeptics and non-combatants alike point out glaring problems with "the event" until it is clearly revealed as meaningless

7) Supporters gradually retreat to relative silence

Rinse and repeat

5 and 6 generally last a few weeks, so grab a beer and settle in.

Sounds as though the credibility of Mr Rossi's demonstration is going to depend on the credibility of his claim that the electronics of his control system created so much heat that a large fan was necessary. Does anyone have views on this?

Les

Quote from Valeriy Tarasov

À la température de 2000 ° C, Li en phase gazeuse (point d'ébullition 1330 ° C), Ni et Al sont fondus, donc H va en dehors de Ni et H + réagit avec Li, ce qui entraîne la fission des noyaux Li. Si le plasma est un mélange de Li +, H + et d'électrons, le plasma est une source de chaleur. Mais, ce qui est vraiment le plasma dans ce cas est une question ouverte.

Encore une question, basée exclusivement sur mes spéculations théoriques. Pourquoi la taille est si petite? Outre la commodité de contrôle, je vois la dimension autour de 10 dans l'ordre moins 4 - 5 mètres est critique.

probably a device's size too big remains difficult to stabilize power output because probably Rossi found burst of Heat/Rays ?

Are we sure that Rossi's using nickel ? A molybdenum wire should resist better at this temperature. Finally a fine wire is similar as micropowder particles "aligned".

To remember, i calculated the balance between NI/Li for Ecat Ht , so we have by volume almost 85%LI and Just 5%Ni following Rossi's patent.

Finally a molybdenum wire should be take in account.

Cydonia

Since the diameter of the electrodes (as far as what we know they are) or active component is so thin (0.08mm. This is about the same diameter of AWG40 wire), something makes me think that the plasma if there indeed is one being produced, is composed of electrode material that is being deliberately vaporized and ionized within the short 0.6 mm gap (which might vary during operation) using suitable pulses (for example a priming 'hv' pulse, then low voltage high current pulses), and that the reaction occurs within that 'dusty' environment. If this was the case the exposed facing parts of the electrodes wouldn't really have to resist in solid form at high temperatures.

For what it's worth, when I did carbon arc discharge experiments under water a few months ago (following transmutation claims by MFMP) I noticed that the hot (and very bright) ionized carbon particles getting eroded from the electrodes (upon striking them manually) made it relatively easy to sustain an arc at (very) short distances despite the low voltages involved (<5V). I think the plasma formed thin pathways for electricity that made it easier for relatively large currents to pass through very small areas, vaporizing more material in a positive feedback loop, at least as long as proper electrode alignment could be maintained. This is probably common knowledge (carbon arc lamps are very old technology) but observing it in person is a different thing.

So something similar could be happening there, but admittedly perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part.

By the way: to clarify, in my case I don't think I've observed any repeatable effect that could be explained with LENR.

Quote from Cipolla

at the minute 50 the trick is out.

As can be seen from the oscilloscope the current waveform is triangular monopole. This can be achieved by feeding a monopole triangular waveform with a resistance (as Mats supposes) or by feeding an inductor with a one-way square wave.

If using an inductor the resistance can be close to zero, but the dissipation can be very high by exploiting leaks for parasitic current or magnetic hysteresis. It would be seen immediately by measuring the tension on the heads of the reactor, but Rossi did not allow it. The voltage in fact is high (about 200V to deliver 50W) and Rossi 50 minutes to Mats: "No, Mats, do not touch!" and makes him move away. Poor Mats, he was about to find the trick.

The principle is that used in common kitchen induction cookers.

Rossi does not (cunningly) measure the power absorbed by the network saying that there are 60W used by cooling. But 60 W is little more than the expected power from Rossi output. In fact, a switching circuit has a very high efficiency and that power supply is generating a square wave at 100 kHz which is used to generate (via inductor) a variable magnetic field inside the "heat exchanger" generating heat for parasitic current and / or magnetic peristalsis.

Display More

Maybe someone would be able to replicate Rossi's results using this kind of setup?

Les

Quote from can

[user = '2533'] Cydonia [/ utilisateur]

Puisque le diamètre des électrodes (dans la mesure où nous savons qu'elles sont) ou le composant actif est si mince (0,08 mm, c'est à peu près le même diamètre de fil AWG40), quelque chose me fait penser que le plasma produit, est composé de matériau d'électrode qui est délibérément vaporisé et ionisé dans l'intervalle court de 0,6 mm (qui peut varier pendant le fonctionnement) en utilisant des impulsions appropriées (par exemple une impulsion d'amorçage 'hv', puis des impulsions de courant faible). la réaction se produit dans cet environnement «poussiéreux». Si c'était le cas, les parties exposées des électrodes n'auraient pas vraiment à résister sous une forme solide à des températures élevées.

Pour ce que ça vaut, quand j'ai fait des expériences de décharge d'arcs de carbone sous l'eau il y a quelques mois (suite à des revendications de transmutation par MFMP) j'ai remarqué que les particules de carbone ionisées chaudes (et très brillantes) s'érodaient il est relativement facile de maintenir un arc à (très) courtes distances malgré les faibles tensions impliquées (<5V). Je pense que le plasma formait de fines voies d'électricité qui facilitaient le passage de courants relativement importants à travers de très petites zones, vaporisant plus de matière dans une boucle de rétroaction positive, au moins tant que l'alignement des électrodes pouvait être maintenu. Ceci est probablement de notoriété publique (les lampes à arc au carbone sont une technologie très ancienne) mais l'observer en personne est une chose différente.

Donc, quelque chose de semblable pourrait se produire là-bas, mais il est vrai que ce n'est peut-être qu'un vœu pieux de ma part.

Soit dit en passant: pour clarifier, dans mon cas je ne pense pas avoir observé d'effet reproductible qui pourrait être expliqué avec LENR.SIF

Display More

if Rossi's using a wire , no dust in this case..just a LI/H plasma around..He could also use a tungsten wire which well breaks H2. We should find heterogeneous level of ionizing between H and Li, Fully in relation with Japanese transmutations experiments. i suggest Qx should react at the end of pulse/discharge not during..

Quote from LENR Calender

Maybe someone would be able to replicate Rossi's results using this kind of setup?

yes, maybe coming soon.

In fact, there is no need to resort parasitic currents losses.
Rossi may have simply used a resistance of 1mm in diameter of 30mm long to about 1000 Ohm. In parallel he has placed an inductor of about 10-20 mH, 0.3A which is very small and can fit inside the "exchanger".

When measuring the system in DC, find R = 0 (from which reason the input power is very small because I ^ 2xR is very small) but at 100 kHz the inductor disappears and remains only the resistance dissipating 40-50 W at ~ 200 V.

As Mats suspected, the generator is a current generator, so when replacing the reactor with a short-circuit, the current remains 0.3A. When the 800 Ohm resistance was set, Rossi or who for him switched the power supply to the voltage generator (the power supply was a black box and also carried the ON-OFF for 3-4 seconds, so at any time can also be transformed away from voltage control and vice versa).

Quote from Cydonia

Les

if Rossi's using a wire , no dust in this case..just a LI/H plasma around..He could also use a tungsten wire which well breaks H2. We should find heterogeneous level of ionizing between H and Li, Fully in relation with Japanese transmutations experiments. i suggest Qx should react at the end of pulse/discharge not during..

The experimental section of the Gullström-Rossi paper summarily described an apparatus in principle similar to the one of the demonstration, where there was:

Quote

a reactor containing two nickel rods with LiAlH4 separated by 1.5 cm of space [...]

During the test, a direct current was switched on and off. When the current was switched on, a plasma was seen flowing between the two nickel rods.

Quote from Alan Smith

I have yet to see anyone of the skeptics come up with a novel objection yet. Especially MY, whose homework has deteriorated back to that of 3rd grade. And yes, that is Fulvio.

Well, Alan.

My objection is hardly novel. it was there for the first QX data (though I had output measurement issues there as well).

My objection as it stands is based on the input power, which has been measured in a very weird and incorrect way. It could easily be 23W or indeed more. But perhaps I've missed something.

THH

I'm looking forward to a demo by Cipolla or other.

BTW, Rossi could heat water with the control system as well and then we'd have COP=2.

Quote from Cipolla

yes, maybe coming soon.

In fact, there is no need to resort parasitic currents losses.
Rossi may have simply used a resistance of 1mm in diameter of 30mm long to about 1000 Ohm. In parallel he has placed an inductor of about 10-20 mH, 0.3A which is very small and can fit inside the "exchanger".

When measuring the system in DC, find R = 0 (from which reason the input power is very small because I ^ 2xR is very small) but at 100 kHz the inductor disappears and remains only the resistance dissipating 40-50 W at ~ 200 V.

As Mats suspected, the generator is a current generator, so when replacing the reactor with a short-circuit, the current remains 0.3A. When the 800 Ohm resistance was set, Rossi or who for him switched the power supply to the voltage generator (the power supply was a black box and also carried the ON-OFF for 3-4 seconds, so at any time can also be transformed away from voltage control and vice versa).

Hi Cipolla - I got there with the parallel R/L before you!

I agree entirely about the high voltage AC (which I also suggested). Needed for plasma ignition, and a good way to push power in if you don't want to do it by switching the power supply to CI.

The reality is that Rossi could have made measurements to avoid all these uncertainties, but he chose not to. He wants the uncertainty for some reason. And unfortunately, I am one that thinks that such obvious desire to introduce and perpetuate uncertainty is not a sign of good will nor intellectual honesty. Time to move on.