Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    That is nonsense. How can he possibly make money from such a scam? This is not for the general public to invest in, but for venture capitalists who will be able to do their own due diligence - like measure the voltage across the reactor.

    Notice when IH wanted to direct an IR gun at the ecat they were prevented, when IH set up the pluming and sensors for Doral, they were ripped out, when NASA people wanted to measure steam quality, they were prevented, when Celani wanted to check for gammas he was prevented.......

    Quote from oldguy

    He wants the uncertainty for some reason.

    Ho w pathetic can you get? How many more times does Rossi have to explain that he is trying to protect his IP?

    You never answered my comment above either.

    Quote from Eric Walker

    It's the opposite of pathetic to point out the obvious. There is no need to rig an unverifiable demo to protect IP. A rigorous black-box test has always been possible.

    I

    As I said, he is protecting his IP, whether you like it or not.


    "If the power pack was heating the water, how can he possibly make money from such a scam? This is not for the general public to invest in, but for venture capitalists who will be able to do their own due diligence - like measure the voltage across the reactor."

    I don't think it's necessary to make an unverifiable dog and pony show to protect IP in this case. You can literally put the device in a small crate on a platform visibly above the ground, hiding the contents from the audience or cameras or whatever, and carefully and rigorously measure input power, water flow rate and output delta T over a long period of time. If the thing goes on for long enough, chemical sources of energy can be ruled out.


    This is not about whether I like that Rossi is attempting to protect his IP. It's about what "he is protecting his IP" includes and excludes as possibilities. He can both protect his IP and allow for a rigorous black box test. He shuns rigorous measurement, and, we can reasonably conclude, for reasons other than protecting IP.

    This comment from ECW (Leonard Weinstein) reflects my thoughts. No need to divulge IP to measure input power.


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    The test protocol was very poor. The fan could have been powered with a separate power cord and avoid the fan power issue. Then the input power to the power supply box measured with a power meter. The fact that the power supply got hot indicates it had a significant added power use which has to be made small before any real progress can be claimed. The OUTPUT from the power supply could be measured with an rms power meter, so the true COP could be found without giving up any secrets. The COP has to be corrected for the 1 Ohm resistor power use.

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    It's a terrible pity that the input power to the Ecat was not measured.

    It's entirely by design. Rossi's design. And always remember that the part of a scam you don't get is the part that gets you.


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    I don't think it's necessary to make an unverifiable test to protect IP in this case. You can literally put the thing in a crate on a platform visibly above the ground, hiding the contents from the audience, and carefully and rigorously measure input power and output delta T. If the thing goes on for long enough, chemical sources of energy can be ruled out


    Bravo, Eric! That's exactly it. That has been true from day one of the original ecat. Rossi will not do this. Not to protect IP. Because it does not work. It did not work when NASA and when Quantum visited Rossi in 2011. It did not work when the Swedish Scientific Institute (?) tested it for Hydrofusion. It did not work when IH struggled for an entire year to test it. No distributor ever got a single specimen of ANY claimed Rossi product to show to a customer much less sell. This demo is pure hooey. And all of this tells the believers nothing?


    The ecat only "works" when it is poorly and incompetently tested by people deeply involved with Rossi or people who allow Rossi to specify the method and perform much of the test (the Swedes and Levi).


    Poor hapless Lewan! Ridiculed for years for not calibrating Rossi's earlier easy to calibrate tests, he even tried "dummy" runs here. But Rossi was also listening to critics and he made it essentially impossible to calibrate properly because the whole thing was so vague, nobody has a clue what he did or showed. So Lewan was roundly outsmarted by Rossi. Again. He is starting to doubt... just a little... way too late but it's a start.

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    From Mats Lewan on ECW " ... Rossi no longer claims the heating problem is due to heat through the wires, but an internal heating problem in the control box."

    Makes no sense either way-- just take the power supply/control box out of the experiment, further away. The only appropriate measurement is total power into the "reactor" and the total power out of the "reactor" as Eric and others already noted. And of course, Rossi will never do that properly. It gives him no cheats.


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    So...As forecast by me and Alan Smith, the demo will not end the debate. No matter how good the experiment the skeptics will stick to their belief that Rossi is a fraud until working units are on sale.

    Nothing shown is remotely saleable. Ever. It's a piece of junk wrapped in $1 a roll vinyl tape.


    Quote

    That is nonsense. How can he possibly make money from such a scam? This is not for the general public to invest in, but for venture capitalists who will be able to do their own due diligence - like measure the voltage across the reactor.

    Rossi has never sold anything to the general public in his life and he isn't starting to do it soon. He makes money by selling his ideas to investors and demanding that they give him a package deal -- for example $10 Million for a test from IH. $1.5 Million for a ridiculously easy to cheat test before that. He constructs devices with his friends on a low budget from mostly off the shelf and junk pieces and parts and then pockets the rest. THAT is how he makes money. Before that, he sold "distributorships" and gave the "distributors" nothing to show to customers and nothing to distribute. He invests in Florida real estate and presumably gets rental income and appreciation from that. Knowing his background, he may also be laundering money again (condos make that possible as per a recent piece in "60 Minutes") and God knows what else.


    Due diligence? You mean like IH did? Like Woodford did? ROTFWL!

    The power input by the control box into the reactor was not measured, and that is a crucial part of the demo. The resistor and load swapping method used was not convincing to me.


    Nobody seems to have investigated the possible use of the invisible ground circuit through the scope probe back to the control box. That could easily carry tens of watts. Does the reaction continue to run when the scope probe is disconnected? That problem could have been avoided by using two scope probes subtracting before display, a differential setup, with their ground clips tied together but not touching the demo, just floating. Then the scope would be high impedance, unable to disturb the power flows significantly. But any electronics tech knows that significant current can flow through the ground clips. I noticed that there was a point in the final resistor swapping stages where the ground and scope probe tip had to be swapped to get the signal to look right on the scope, and I didn't think it was just a problem of the signal having the wrong polarity. But I suppose we'll never know.


    Nobody except Rossi knows how much electrical power actually flowed from the control box into the test.

    Other than that, the calorimetry part looked trustworthy, so 20 watts more or less was provided in the eCat.

    We just can't tell where it came from.

    Quote from Eric Walker

    I don't think it's necessary to make an unverifiable dog and pony show

    I know you don't. You have made that obvious for months. Why are you so keen to run Rossi down and encourage others to do so? Do you think you are saving the world from fraud?


    The energy input was measured well enough to demonstrate the basic characteristics of the QX. That was the purpose of the demo, not to please skeptics like you. You are arrogant enough to think you know better than Rossi so why haven't you brought a LENR reactor to market?

    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    I know you don't. You have made that obvious for months. Why are you so keen to run Rossi down and encourage others to do so? Do you think you are saving the world from fraud?


    I'm not intent on making a certain case about Rossi (e.g., running him down, or showing that he is a fraud). I'm intent on supporting civil, dispassionate discussions about LENR, and, since Rossi often pops up, about Rossi's tech. I would encourage anyone who can effectively do the opposite of running him down to do so. Very few have shown mettle in this regard, but occasionally one see's a good technical defense mounted. But like Alan, I do not have a specific aim in mind other than that the truth be brought to light.


    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    The energy input was measured well enough to demonstrate the basic characteristics of the QX. That was the purpose of the demo, not to please skeptics like you.


    I would not consider myself a LENR skeptic, although I am a Rossi skeptic. I appreciate that Rossi's purposes were other than pleasing me and others who are skeptical of him. That certainly is no argument against pointing out the obvious.


    Quote from Adrian Ashfield

    You are arrogant enough to think you know better than Rossi so why haven't you brought a LENR reactor to market?


    One need not bring a LENR reactor to market to point out the obvious.

    Quote from Paradigmnoia

    OK.

    Anyone want to re-do the blackbody calculations using those as the parameters for area?


    With an area of about 0.0015 cm2 and blackbody temperature of 2636K it should be approximately 0.4W. The same calculation for an area of 1 cm2 gives 246W (about the same as the value reported on the Gullström-Rossi paper, with the same peak wavelength temperature). But maybe I'm wrong...?

    Quote

    Why are you so keen to run Rossi down and encourage others to do so? Do you think you are saving the world from fraud?

    Speaking for myself, I hate crooks and con men. They waste everyone's time, money and energy and bleed it dry for their own sociopathic profits. Despicable people.


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    The energy input was measured well enough to demonstrate the basic characteristics of the QX.

    Maybe in your dreams, Adrian.


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    That was the purpose of the demo, not to please skeptics like you.

    No, it was not! The ONLY purpose of the demo was for Rossi to determine if there is even one person remaining in the world with money who will give it to him based on a misleading and deceptive piece of stale showmanship alone. He is simply using this to search for someone with lots of money and absolutely no common sense. And he has found these people in the past so why not now? He is pitching ever lower. He has to. Eventually, these pitch people run out of marks and then they crash. Steorn and Sean McCarthy are the poster boys.


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    You are arrogant enough to think you know better than Rossi so why haven't you brought a LENR reactor to market?

    Ridiculous lack of reasoning. How do figure this astoundingly illogical premise? You are saying that someone can not criticize a scam without being able to provide what the scam falsely claims they can? How does that make the slightest sense to anyone, Adrian? If you're rich, Adrian, I am sure Rossi would love to "work" with you. Just give him a few millions and he will produce an ecatQX just for you. ROTFWL!

    • Official Post

    All right, where is our reporter? :) I still want to know some of the human intelligence (humint) aspects of the DPS. No names required:


    1. Was there a Nobelist there.


    2. What companies were represented.


    3. Was the investor part of a group, or one person.


    4. Was someone from government there in an official capacity.


    5. Did any of the Swedes talk of replicating their own Lugano results.

    Quote from Cipolla

    As Mats suspected, the generator is a current generator, so when replacing the reactor with a short-circuit, the current remains 0.3A. When the 800 Ohm resistance was set, Rossi or who for him switched the power supply to the voltage generator (the power supply was a black box and also carried the ON-OFF for 3-4 seconds, so at any time can also be transformed away from voltage control and vice versa).


    Like in this moment (see around 2:31 mark Rossi flipping switch INSIDE the case of controller box.)? Well there would be lot of opportunities to do many manually or automatically (controller could automatically switch mode by sensing the load impedance/resistance ratio. QX containing Resistor+Capacitor or Coil and MATS used just resistors, ).

    In my opinion this was just demo to prepare what is cooking in Rossis Lab if he really has something. I can't imagine many professional companies, that would give a dime without proper verification first. So why even bother if he does not have anything.

    It is interesting to speculate and rewind videos back and forth, but I'm going can still sit on the fence until some real verification is done.

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    I can't imagine many professional companies, that would give a dime without proper verification first. So why even bother if he does not have anything?

    You're sadly mistaken. Investors get taken all the time. It happens again and again. The technical magazines and the internet are full of such reports.

    IH got ROUNDLY taken, just to give a small example of how Rossi takes money and gives nothing. It's the story of his life. He has never produced a single thing of the slightest value in all his nearly 70 years... except maybe a small amount of education to his marks but even that is doubtful.

    Hey Alan Smith -- if you're still reading this, could you please ask Rossi how his "certificators" are doing? They've only been busy "certificating" his original ecats and his megawatt plant since 2012. What is taking so long? Who is doing it and where? (*thanks* if you ask but of course, you won't)


    And something else I am sure all want to know: How is Dr. Levi (and how are the Swedish scientists) doing in replicating and improving on the so-called Lugano test? Do they have a working hot cat of their own? Are they planning to publish?

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