Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread

Ahlfors

Randell Mills has used in the past seam welding equipment to seemingly demonstrate his Hydrino reaction, so who knows.

It is not the same. [Edited by Rends - Please no insults of nationalities or ethnic groups]

You are unable to detect Irony - a pity. Do you think that for your politically correct politesse Leonado da Vinci is enough?

Quote from Paradigmnoia

A big spike in voltage is pretty much neccesary in order to strike a plasma across a gap. With no gap, a strike-hold power supply may sense the low resistance (compared to a gap) and not fire the initial voltage spike. This might be a safety feature, or might simply be not possible without the "air" gap.

Xenon is the arc helper. It reduces the arc maintaining voltage.

A plasma can be started by striking. That is have physical contact, say a fusible link so that once a given higher voltage vaporizes the link the plasma can start.

I wonder if it could be as simple as just there is an air leak to the tube and the electrodes are consumable- That is just burning the electrodes. It wouldn't take much to keep 20W of heat going for an hour by chemistry.

Rends

The new version has had its audio muted off from 0:55:00 to about 1:45:00. I should have downloaded it as soon as it was available because some exchanges between Rossi and other people, both in Italian and English, were interesting, but unfortunately I didn't transcribe them all right away.

The big question for me is: Where does the heat to be removed from the controller box come from?

Look at this Q&A on Rossiblog:

Sommer

November 25, 2017 at 1:22 PM

You have discussed before that the demo would be doable with batteries as the only sorce. Would such a configuration have the same need for massive cooling?

• Andrea Rossi

November 25, 2017 at 1:55 PM

Sommer:

Yes.

Warm Regards,

A.R.

Sommer

November 25, 2017 at 2:03 PM

First of all:

Congrats for Your big sucsess!

And many Thanks for Your quick answer to my question.

After the impressive demo many followers speculate about the source of the heat in the controls.

Do You have a hint for us what the reason may be, after the possibiliy of heat traveling trouh the wires was excluded?

• Andrea Rossi

November 25, 2017 at 2:31 PM

Sommer:

I am very sorry, but that would force me to explain confidential particulars.

Thank you for your kind attention to our work.

Warm Regards,

A.R.

So the massive heat would even be there if the controller operated on batteries only. Has anyone any idea (exept the usual shoutings of fraud from the known parties)?

Adrian Ashfield: “The QX is an order of magnitude better than any known previous reactor.

Consider its small size, that it can be instantly switched on and off, that it has a COP 500 - 1000. It can operate at 2300 C for up to a year.”

As a scientist, you must have some good reason to say these things. Can you provide evidence for these remarkable claims?

Rends: you probably misunderstood what Ahlfors wrote due to a Google Translate mishap.

Ahlfors: you're a snowflake (EDIT: in reference to the deleted comments).

Quote from Adrian Ashfield

The QX is an order of magnitude better than any known previous reactor.

Consider its small size, that it can be instantly switched on and off, that it has a COP 500 - 1000. It can operate at 2300 C for up to a year.

let say.... to switch you need to open the box, not as fast as you say

Adrian, considering the statements you are making about the QX, why aren't YOU waiting for more facts?

Quote from can

did mention that earlier in this thread citing non-LENR references (1, 2) and personal observations. During high current DC arc discharges tests the positive wire would heat up significantly more than the negative wire. I don't know if this is really related to what Rossi observed, but it reminded me of that (although only by loose association). In my case in some tests at higher current than normal I had to periodically invert wire polarity to not melt the connectors and wire insulation, but it was mostly my fault since I used cheap and undersized equipment (not to mention improvised).

Interesting phenomenon I was not aware of. Your experience and references are also interesting. I remember that at some point Rossi reported (in jonp via ECW maybe) trying to figure out wire overheating problem and also Matts now mentioned it in his presentation before Rossi corrected him that he has solved that one.

Phenomenon you experienced (and discussed in references) must occur in pretty much higher power levels (lke >30A), but phenomenon is there. Could it be that plasma enhanced with LENR reaction makes same phenomenon but causes much bigger amounts of electrons to flow to positive electrode (so by mW:s input you generate 10s of W:s worth of electrical energy) or something? That would also explain why Rossi has claimed to be able to produce electricity directly with QX.

Overheating of the control box:

Combine the statements from Dott. Rossi:

Reached sigma 5 (Rossi on JONP, only Rossi knows, was that means)

At the show:

Running the 3 QXs only at 30% (Rossi at the show, because safety, bla bla) / Yes, Adrian, this is correct, watch the video

Control box has 60W

One QX has 20W, at the show 3 QX -> 60W, Control box still getting hot

100% run not possible.

In my opinion: It's a electric heater and light show, added with some hocky pokey with the scope and a spectrometer.
There is no excess heat. All power comes from the box, nothing from the "reactor".

Quote from Argon

Interesting phenomenon I was not aware of. Your experience and references are also interesting. I remember that at some point Rossi reported (in jonp via ECW maybe) trying to figure out wire overheating problem and also Matts now mentioned it in his presentation before Rossi corrected him that he has solved that one.

In the now muted section of the video at about 1:34:00 there was a short exchange between Rossi and Lewan; I took some notes and transcribed a few phrases when the video was still online. From what Rossi said it seemed like the problem at the wires was due to something "returning back" from the reactor, I assume electricity. He solved the problem with the wires, but the PSU still had an " enormous excess heat problem" that had to be handled with cooling fans (I think that's what he said). Unfortunately I can't check again and I don't remember what else he said exactly there.

Quote

[1:34:00] electric cables, Lewan says they're not hot

[Rossi]: allora ti spiego: il problema del ritorno dei cavi ce l'avevamo e l'abbiamo risolto in un altro modo. Il problema invece dell'eccesso di calore enorme che si forma qui dentro, quello lo dobbiamo gestire con i ventil[-atori?] ...

[Rossi]: il problema dei cavi quando te l'ho detto era quello. Avevamo tutti e due i problemi, poi però l'abbiamo risolto …

Quote from Argon

Phenomenon you experienced (and discussed in references) must occur in pretty much higher power levels (lke >30A), but phenomenon is there. Could it be that plasma enhanced with LENR reaction makes same phenomenon but causes much bigger amounts of electrons to flow to positive electrode (so by mW:s input you generate 10s of W:s worth of electrical energy) or something? That would also explain why Rossi has claimed to be able to produce electricity directly with QX.

Indeed when I saw (and smelled) wire insulation melting I was using currents in the order of 30A and above.

Even without taking into account any LENR occurring, only large currents, if one could solve the problem on one side by using thicker wires with as few connection points as possible, it would still have to be handled by the power supply or some sort of circuit (e.g. flyback diode as Ahlfors suggested), which will produce heat in the process. So it could have been a related problem, but I'm absolutely no electric engineer.

Also I wonder if the box is open when Fabiani reaches with his left hand or if he is reaching under the box (@27s)

Mats' comment:

Quote

Didn’t notice this. Not good.

I discussed the dummy tests with Rossi two months before the demo. Shortly before the demo Rossi only wanted to do the short circuit test, not the 800 ohm, since the waveform would be altered in a way that would reveal sensible information, he said. I told him that in that case it was meaningless to do the test at all. He came back a few days later and said he would do it.

Whatever adjustment he did before the dummy test, legitimate or not, it’s a serious problem. The input measurement was already weak as it was. Now I suppose the only conclusive test would be to repeat the measurements when he has a developed control system that doesn’t need cooling so you can measure COP of the whole system.

If the box needs so intense cooling, use an extra fan, powered externally.

Hokey poky!