Quote from JedRothwell

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I think the only way to be 100% sure you are measuring all input power is to use a watt meter between the wall socket and the machine. If there is more than one socket or if it is a high voltage connection, you cannot do that. You can now buy cheap but reliable mass-produced meters such as the "Kill-a-watt" brand. I have the impression they are faster and more reliable than expensive meters were back in the 1980s.

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In that sense, the Kill-a-watt will always reveal the truth. It will either show the correct power consumption or it will burn.

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As an electrician, if I were auditing such a system, I would not trust a wall receptacle. Assuming I knew the expected load, I would run cabling from a panel as close to the building's source as practicable, and supply my own breakers. I've put a lot of wires in walls and had them covered. Who knows what's in there after the drywall is on?

Paranoid? Sure, I except that.

Re: Kill-A-Watt. I should see about pushing HF waveforms through, when I have time...

Rossi's LENR theory

What Rossi is saying is that LENR is extracting energy from protons and neutrons using a special EMF stimulation ( quadriple). This nucleon polarizability involves spin.

Rossi's theory is too narrow and is addressing only what goes on in the Lugano and QX reactors. There are many more types of LENR that the theory must cover that this Rossi theory is not addressing.

But on the other hand, amazingly, it is close to correct. The basics are valid. LENR energy comes from protons and neutrons catalyzed by magnetic fields where spin is affected.

I look 7 years behind this discussion with Rossi and I can't understand, you grudge millions which give Rossi on researches or you are patriots from science... It is given money investors and what to take them, it is necessary to work too! I know that Rossi's theory is processes in volcanoes, volcanoes are formed due to terrestrial electricity which is supported by excess heat - LENR! It is necessary to be engaged, unite and look for business new energy. Oil is blood of the planet Earth and its production leads to global climate change! There comes the planet climax Earth.

Quote from Argon

Putting in milliwatts (without LENR) should not cause returning current requiring tens of watts active cooling (And still even few watt Computer fan would be more than enough for 60w cooling).

Of course, the only way to say that this was the problem in his case is that either Rossi was using large currents or that there was some sort of LENR either producing a large amount of electrons or a much larger (hotter?) plasma than the input power would normally cause. Since it was probably not the case for the former (wasn't it measured to be <1A? I haven't paid too much attention to the electrical measurements) and that skeptics don't think the latter was either, it's pretty much just an unproven hypothesis. My point was ultimately that the same problem would affect both the wires and the power supply.

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Quote by Rossi you pasted (google translated):
[Rossi]: then I'll tell you: the cable return problem we had and we solved it in another way. The problem instead of the enormous excess heat that is formed here, that we must handle it with the valves [?]? ...

[Rossi]: The cable problem when I told you was that. We had both problems, but then we solved it ...

I guess by 'valves' he refers to Diode (in the beginning them were also called as valves).

Beware that Google Translate is getting confused again. Rossi didn't say "valves", but the beginning of a word, "ventil", which I think was supposed to be "ventilatori" = fans. I think that would be consistent with the presence of a "cooling system" that was mentioned a few times throughout the event, for example also by Mats Lewan.

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So my interpretation this case is:

1) Originally Rossi have had cable burning problem, because he was not aware of extra returning current (and if I recall correctly he initially thought that it was conducted heat from reactor). Then he must have learned about returning current and heating problem was solved by putting stronger cables.

2) Stronger cables moved problem to control box as you said. Rossi learned just recently that he should use valves (Diodes) to bypass returning current to avoid heating of power supply.

He didn't actually mention valves, but such flyback diodes would heat up too in the process if a large amount of return current was being produced, so he would have to cool them in some way. Random example from a Duckduckgo search with "flyback diode heat", where a person is asking for help because of them overheating in his application:

https://forum.allaboutcircuits…n-a-flyback-diode.123654/

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If that is really true that with few hundred milliamp input you get back several amps because of plasma (or actually LENR), I think overheating is pretty basic problem to solve by electrical engineer (Adding even Zener-diode to flyback configuration, extra current could partially be used to feed super capacitors for juicing control unit => Infinite COP.

Too many open questions and in my opinion Rossi is so stubborn that he tries to solve all problems by himself that would be much easier for professional engineers to solve. Or alternatively I tend to buy Pekka Janhunen theory (in ecatworld.org) that by being unclear, Rossi manages to remain under Big Radars who could ruin his plans...

To clarify again, I don't think that with a few dozen-hundred mA of input you can get several amps back of electricity without some sort of unexpected / anomalous reaction occurring. I do think that solving that would mostly be an engineering issue though (but wasn't the industralization phase close? He also mentioned direct electricity production long time ago).

An example of a feedback current using arc discharge into a plasma.

The feedback current is well known in Papp replication tech. Russ Gries burnt out capacitors and other parts using hydogen because of the feedback current and the Rohner replication has a motor that uses the feedback current to drive it. In the video, it is the white disk in the background with the 4 holes in it. It spins when the popper is activated.

Quote from can

Of course, the only way to say that this was the problem in his case is that either Rossi was using large currents or that there was some sort of LENR either producing a large amount of electrons or a much larger (hotter?) plasma than the input power would normally cause. Since it was probably not the case for the former (wasn't it measured to be <1A? I haven't paid too much attention to the electrical measurements) and that skeptics don't think the latter was either, it's pretty much just an unproven hypothesis. My point was ultimately that the same problem would affect both the wires and the power supply.

Beware that Google Translate is getting confused again. Rossi didn't say "valves", but the beginning of a word, "ventil", which I think was supposed to be "ventilatori" = fans. I think that would be consistent with the presence of a "cooling system" that was mentioned a few times throughout the event, for example also by Mats Lewan.

He didn't actually mention valves, but such flyback diodes would heat up too in the process if a large amount of return current was being produced, so he would have to cool them in some way. Random example from a Duckduckgo search with "flyback diode heat", where a person is asking for help because of them overheating in his application:

https://forum.allaboutcircuits…n-a-flyback-diode.123654/

To clarify again, I don't think that with a few dozen-hundred mA of input you can get several amps back of electricity without some sort of unexpected / anomalous reaction occurring. I do think that solving that would mostly be an engineering issue though (but wasn't the industralization phase close? He also mentioned direct electricity production long time ago).

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According to theory, mesons are produced in abundance. There are 10^15 reactions occurring with each of those reaction creating mesons happening per shot of arc. Those mesons decay into electrons, lots of electrons.

Quote from axil

According to theory, mesons are produced in abundance. There are 10^15 reactions occurring with each of those reaction creating mesons happening per shot of arc. Those mesons decay into electrons, lots of electrons.

I think meson decay would produce very energetic electrons, they would be emitted everywhere around the reactor.

Best answer for Rossi's behavior since 01/14/2011

Post from ECW

Cuthbert Allgood • a day ago

Another milestone, and yet another disappointment. I've been on the "believe it when I see some real proof" train for years now. I hope it pops out someday, but the fact is, there is zero proof that any of this works, despite what many people want to believe.

Let's assume Rossi is genuine. Then what the hell is wrong with the man? If he didn't want to demonstrate it, then don't. But if he did, surely it's worth spending a few minutes thinking about how to present it such that the test setup isn't completely ridiculous as to prove nothing.

Public demonstration? Well, why the hell not have some professional videographers do a recording and upload it? It's either public or it's not. Why be so amateurish?

Doing a full-featured measurement of energy consumption is notoriously tricky, but these are solved problems. It's not like he couldn't have made it battery powered and have it suspended on a platform by fishing line such that it's impossible for external power to get there. Put the damn thing in a black box if you have to, but show me the water heating up far faster than the battery can account for. It's just not that hard to make a bullet-proof demonstration.

So why doesn't he? I actually don't think Rossi is a crook. I do suspect that it's very possible he's fooling himself and it doesn't actually work. And he's now stuck in a mode where he fools himself into thinking he just needs a few more months and it will actually work. But perhaps it never worked and that's why the endless delays, the sloppy testing protocols and general disorganization.

I hope this isn't the case. And I hate to be negative. But I remain that "I'll believe it when I see it proven."

Quote from can

I think meson decay would produce very energetic electrons, they would be emitted everywhere around the reactor.

In order to hold the plasma, the tube would need to be an very good insulator. The feedback electrons would be attracted to the electrodes at either end of the tube.

When Russ Gries was experimenting with the Papp popper, unless the plasma was cleared of ionization the arc stimulation did not work. IMHO, that feedback ionization must be cleared before the next arc is executed.

See this popper experiment to see how the plasma behaves

e-cat QX simulation

Quote from axil

In order to hold the plasma, the tube would need to be an very good insulator

Due to very high temperatures, soft electrode materials (etc.) it's been noted that the small tube (supposed to be a sort of capillary tube) would quickly become coated with metals and become conductive, which wouldn't allow continuous glow discharge operation. Intermittent arc discharge operation should still be possible on the other hand. Reports from people who saw it in person and video evidence suggest that this is what occurred.

Quote from can

Due to very high temperatures, soft electrode materials (etc.) it's been noted that the small tube (supposed to be a sort of capillary tube) would quickly become coated with metals and become conductive, which wouldn't allow continuous glow discharge operation. Intermittent arc discharge operation should still be possible on the other hand. Reports from people who saw it in person and video evidence suggest that this is what occurred.

I don't think so. The spectroscopy cannot be done through a metal coated surface as was shown in the demo. The plasma must clear the transparent tube to a large degree to keep it transparent. Anyway, the tube would still not allow charge to penetrate that tube just like insolation on a wire keeps the conductor from any short circuit/charge loss.

I saw large negative voltage pulses on the scope. There were high voltage fast pulses that show up below the zero line of the scope. That must be the negative feedback current.

For a close up look, see

Quote from H-G Branzell

Guys, let's be real.

Rossi COP > 1 is not.

Any E-Cat anytime anywhere.

Plasmas are ubiquitous. Temperatures in most plasmas are thousands of degrees C.

Plasmas with temperatures of millions of degrees C can be found in fusion reactors.

That's what it takes to get nuclear reactions.

And when you do, take care not to be fried by the radiation.

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Read up on quark fusion.

axil

Apparently according to eye witnesses from what was reported several months ago, the reactor tube is transparent, so I'm likely wrong.

Also, in this discussion on ECW Mats Lewan says he's seen it 'naked'; he probably knows better than I do.

The reactor tube is transparent. Is the tube made by glass?

Good for the insulation of the wires that lead to the plasma.