The issue is whether this demo showed the device working. Rossi claims it did, as does Mats. That is just not true,
There you go again. Please explain the point of demonstrating the E-Cat QX if it doesn't work and the first potential investor would quickly see that.
Your argument is similar to someone banging their head on the desk because it is so pleasant when they stop.
Please explain the point of demonstrating the E-Cat QX if it doesn't work and the first potential investor would quickly see that.
The point is to find stupid investors who will not quickly see that. People who will not see it at all, such as the people who still think the Doral test Penon report is valid.
The world is full of stupid investors, as you see from the Dot-com crash, the real estate crash of 2008, Juicero, and many other ventures.
One issue that bugs me in Rossi's behavior is that he has contempt and arrogance for the audience of the demo. The audience can accept the demo or reject it. Rossi does not care what they do. When you design a demo, you attempt to prove what the product can do unambiguously. The latest demo is designed Rossi's way with no regard for the opinion of the audience. Rossi could have used a dummy reactor driven by the same control box input to show LENR activity. A heating coil would convert the input signal to heat that could be measured for comparison to the active reactor. This would have kept his IP secret and provided a baseline of comparison. This method would have precluded all the hidden wire speculations. MFMP uses this method in their testing.
When an individual has a lifelong history of fraud, failure, lies and disasters, there are not very many possibilities except fraud and no opportunities to speak of at all. All the more so when the demonstrations are faulty and underwhelming and they could be spectacular if only the device really worked as claimed. You are simply not considering the bulk of the evidence about Rossi, his claims, and his performances.
It however does seem so extremely unproportional - the amount of energy spent here to possibly uncover some minor fraud (in the scale of things) which seemingly did not hurt anyone important compared to both endless sums of money wasted and people defrauded elsewhere everyday AND the possible upside if Rossi was on to something, which do seem to be a likely hypothesis.
It however does seem so extremely unproportional - the amount of energy spent here to possibly uncover some minor fraud (in the scale of things)
Rossi's previous fraud has effectively destroyed I.H. and ended nearly all funding for cold fusion research. He has caused more damage to the field than any single skeptic, including Huizenga. On the scale of things, by destroying any hope of developing cold fusion, he has changed history. This will exacerbate global warming, kill roughly 50,000 people per week indefinitely, and cost untold trillions of dollars.
The point is to find stupid investors who will not quickly see that. People who will not see it at all, such as the people who still think the Doral test Penon report is valid.
The world is full of stupid investors, as you see from the Dot-com crash, the real estate crash of 2008, Juicero, and many other ventures.
The basic problem with the IH/Rossi relationship was who would be the shot caller. IH though that they were in control. Rossi through different, he wanted to call the shots. This struggle for power was the ultimate reason for the Dural confrontation.
Any future investor will be a passive source of capital only. Rossi will have complete control of the tech and the business. In return for complete control, Rossi will provide a return on investment to the new partner. The partner will not have a say in any part of the business.
I want to add that when it comes to Rossi we have a confounding factor. The obvious lack of input meassurments could be either be because of hiding the true power or due to keeping the
peanut gallery in uncertainty either of how it works or if it works. It's an undecidable fact simply. Also all logic that is based on occams razor tells you what the critics tell you all along. You need
to tweak and bend the facts in order to see the positive side. As said in the previous post a lot of people have hard times seeing the meaning of a scam (actually another occam) . People chooses
side in this perspective and we get a different outcome in judgement as I see it. My judgement is simply that of the critical side.
This post reminds me of how satisfied that Randell Mills is about the fact that his process is not proven in the public view. He does his shows for the followers and to attract and satisfy
investors who probably sits with much more information than we do. As an investor I would actually be very pleased with that approach because knowledge known by me and not everybody
else has a much much higher potential value than common knowledge - it's very logical, on the other hand if you want to hide facts ...
To know we simply needs to wait for the end game.
@Tony
I think that in order to focus on threads like given the Quark works then ... needs strong moderation to enforce some rules in order not to detoriate into wordfeuds. And many of us doesn't want to
do that including me because it's too premature, I guess we want to take smaller steps from a firm ground simply in order for the building to be robust and well designed. On the other hand
I do enjoy SciFi novels, just not here.
The basic problem with the IH/Rossi relationship was who would be the shot caller. IH though that they were in control. Rossi through different, he wanted to call the shots.
No, the first basic problem was that every single test I.H. and others did was a complete failure. There was no trace of excess heat.
The second basic problem as you see in Penon report is that the Doral test was flagrant, obvious, in-your-face fraud. Since you refuse to read the Penon report, you have no basis to challenge this assertion.
The third basic problem was the Rossi was engaged in other frauds, pretending to be his own customer, pretending to have employees, pretending to have a connection to Johnson Matthey, and so on.
Rossi's previous fraud has effectively destroyed I.H. and ended nearly all funding for cold fusion research. He has caused more damage to the field than any single skeptic, including Huizenga. On the scale of things, by destroying any hope of developing cold fusion, he has changed history. This will exacerbate global warming, kill roughly 50,000 people per week indefinitely, and cost untold trillions of dollars.
Unless of course you are mistaken in your analysis and it is the other way around. Maybe IH was only VCs and lawyers trying to get their hands on the IP with no intention to build anything?
think that in order to focus on threads like given the Quark works then ... needs strong moderation to enforce some rules in order not to detoriate into wordfeuds. And many of us doesn't want to
do that including me because it's too premature, I guess we want to take smaller steps from a firm ground simply in order for the building to be robust and well designed. On the other hand
I do enjoy SciFi novels, just not here.
I dont know, but to me this forum looks like it is detoriating in a wordfued even though (or as I believe because) most energy is spent going for the kill. I neither see the advantage of taking small steps, if big ones could be made even if they are less robust. To me that is innovation.
QuoteIt however does seem so extremely unproportional - the amount of energy spent here to possibly uncover some minor fraud (in the scale of things) which seemingly did not hurt anyone important compared to both endless sums of money wasted and people defrauded elsewhere everyday
I have to agree that there are much worse things than Rossi's scam on investors but people do get hurt, not the least of whom are legitimate researchers in LENR and related areas who could be getting the funds Rossi used to pay for his life style, travels, new scams, lawyers, and Miami condos. Ask IH if Rossi didn't hurt them? Ask Vaughn and Darden. I don't think Woodford gives one f**k. People follow this particular scam because it's less complex than some and because it sheds light on the weird ways people think about such things.
QuoteAND the possible upside if Rossi was on to something, which do seem to be a likely hypothesis.
It has never been a likely hypothesis. Again, you are not considering the history and the facts.
QuoteMaybe IH was only VCs and lawyers trying to get their hands on the IP with no intention to build anything?
Complete nonsense. They gave Rossi free rein for more than a year to show his stuff and build it any way he wanted to. They gave him $11.5 million to do that with and probably more in terms of overhead and facilities. If Rossi's claims were real and IH had been able to make, patent, license and market ecat-based devices, all the principals involved in the company would be come billionaires. Why in the world would they not want to do that? It's a completely illogical theory.
And after all that time and investment, Rossi came up with non-working junk for IH, as revealed aplenty in the depositions. And then, with all the money at his disposal, his current show involves more junk parts wrapped in duct tape. And his measurement of power doesn't include the source voltage. Now really? You believe THIS guy?
Come on skeptics. Answer the question or don't you dabble in logic?
What can Rossi possibly gain by demonstrating a reactor that doesn't work when it would be simple (as the skeptics themselves claim) for any investor to check if it worked?
Forget about Jeb's arrogant comments on how the rich are stupid. There would be tens of millions involved in finishing the engineering and building an autmated factory. People with kind of money are not stupid and do due diligence.
@Tony
"What bugs me however is the enormous creativy invested in finding out what is possibly wrong with Rossi and his E-Cat compared to the rare comments actually trying to figure out what is going on as if he had something. Is this the nature of us humans? I mean if it worked it would be a revolution for everyone but most people seems occupied with keeping the status quo ..."
"It however does seem so extremely unproportional - the amount of energy spent here to possibly uncover some minor fraud (in the scale of things) which seemingly did not hurt anyone important compared to both endless sums of money wasted and people defrauded elsewhere everyday AND the possible upside if Rossi was on to something, which do seem to be a likely hypothesis."
"Maybe IH was only VCs and lawyers trying to get their hands on the IP with no intention to build anything?"
You have the same strange ideas like somebody, who is frequently banned here.
Is Sifferkoll your tag-team partner?
Unless of course you are mistaken in your analysis and it is the other way around. Maybe IH was only VCs and lawyers trying to get their hands on the IP with no intention to build anything?
It is unlikely I am mistaken in my analysis. I have seen more of I.H. test data than other people, and it is easy analyze the Doral test and the Penon report. There is no doubt that the tests done by I.H., Boeing and others showed no heat. There is no doubt that Rossi's calorimetry was wrong. For example, it indicated a large amount of excess heat from an empty cell. You cannot get wronger than that!
There would be no point to "getting your hands on" Rossi's IP unless you intended to build something. If your purpose is to suppress the technology, all you have to do is ignore it. It will die on its own for lack of money. This is true of all cold fusion technology. There was never any prospect of a serious investment in Rossi's other than I.H.'s. Rossi has abandoned the technology now, so whether it was real or not, it is now definitely and forever dead.
Rossi has gone on to the Quark-X which is completely different from the Doral e-cats and the other devices that I.H. and Boeing tested. (And it looks even more fraudulent to me.)
QuoteWhat can Rossi possibly gain by demonstrating a reactor that doesn't work when it would be simple (as the skeptics themselves claim) for any investor to check if it worked
Like Steorn, Rossi got away with pretending that a collection of trash works. Like Steorn, he is going to milk it to the very end. His previous investors were stupid, negligent and incompetent in various combinations. He's simply hoping for more and dumber. Just like Steorn was able to find. Sean McCarthy lived well off the investor cash and pickled his liver at the pub to his heart's content for ELEVEN YEARS before it all caught up with him and Steorn went belly up, toes curled. If he had even a vestige of a brain, he stashed and invested some of the loot along the way and may never have to work or con again. Rossi is hoping for the same and he's probably pretty close to it by now. But I am sure he would not turn down one more large score from patsies like IH and company.
Adrian, people with lots of money are no smarter or dumber than anyone else. The only thing that distinguishes them from the rest of humanity is the amount of money they have. So Rossi’s carnival shows are designed to convince investors who are gullable and the so-called demonstrations don’t have to stand up to any scrutiny or make any sense. Clearly, they have you convinced, so why not foolish investors as well?
So, no word on the watt rating of the 1 ohm resistor? No good photos of it so far.
Come on skeptics. Answer the question or don't you dabble in logic?
What can Rossi possibly gain by demonstrating a reactor that doesn't work when it would be simple (as the skeptics themselves claim) for any investor to check if it worked?
Forget about Jeb's arrogant comments on how the rich are stupid. There would be tens of millions involved in finishing the engineering and building an autmated factory. People with kind of money are not stupid and do due diligence.
Agree, It is a much better sign that he is looking for an industrial partner to do engineering and build production facilities than for example trying to accumulate IP and do an IPO.
Like Steorn, Rossi got away with pretending that a collection of trash works. Like Steorn, he is going to milk it to the very end.
You always get things wrong. First the demo was never going to take place, then it was going to be postponed and you probably went on about how he would make money by selling admission tickets over ten pages, but I don't normally read your posts so don't know.
Steorn is not in the same category. A small outfit who never employed scientists to vet his work and certainly didn't get tens of millions of dollars. Hundreds of scientist have now seen Rossi's E-Cats working and only Krivit has complained.
Come on skeptics. Surely you can do better than Mary.
people with lots of money are no smarter or dumber than anyone else.
There could be some correlation with the possibility to buy required intelligent resources though.
