Demonstration of the E-Cat QX - 24 November - Summary thread


    What are you talking about? I believe everyone agrees that one of the goals for the demo was Rossi showing the tech and getting in touch with potential investors and/or industrial partners, right? And don't you agree that a potential industrial partner would value some information advantage? And do you agree that in order for an industrial partner to build a factory with Rossi it is reasonable to assume they will certify that the technology works as claimed?

    Anyways, just to summarize the reported radiant power (since this was getting mixed up here and elsewhere earlier), Rossi says at 2:27:00 or so, that the area of the reactor is 0.6 cm x 0.08 cm * 2 * pi and the temperature of 2036 K (not so well measured perhaps).


    That makes 48.7 W, and the radius of the plasma/reactor to be 0.08 cm, or a diameter of 0.16 cm (1.6 mm)

    (48.971 W if I don't skimp on all the decimal places in the area)

    Quote from interested observer

    Perhaps you actually don’t understand what a scam is. It is getting people to give you money under false pretenses - in this case, for a miraculous energy gadget. Of course he has to demonstrate it in some fashion to get people to give him money. And of course it doesn’t work. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be a scam.

    Talk about circular logic. It is a scam because it is a scam. LOL That's about the most pathetic response so far. I know what a scam is. He has to demonstrate it in some way to get people interested enough to do due diligence and invest in it That is normal business. You ASSUME it is a scam and work back from there, because you have a one track mind.

    You completely failed to address the question I asked.

    Quote from THHuxleynew

    If Rossi wants no notice all he has to keep quiet and stop his continuous web-based PR. No-one would know about what he was doing.

    Tony answered your comment already.


    How do you suppose Rossi can attract potential investors he needs to fund a factory by keeping silent?


    I note you never answer my question. I suppose you can't

    • Official Post

    I guess Bruce H. is too modest to re-post his ECW comment from today, so I will do him the honors. Very astute IMO, as I think it addresses the "why would Rossi do this if he were a scammer" defense from the Rossites we see almost every other post here. This whole Rossi thing, has become, not a matter of the science, but a matter of the mind. Anyways, in response to Lewan, Bruce said this:


    I disagree with this. One of the conclusions surrounding Mr Rossi's activities over the years is that the possibility of him simply misinterpreting his own results has become rather small. Of the 3 possibilities -- he has something, he is deluding himself, he is purposely fooling others -- the middle one has pretty much disappeared leaving the other 2 as the only real considerations.


    I think there is a certain amount of understandable naivete regarding the range of personalities found in others. Some people are constituted such that they can lie with perfect ease. This can even be seen experimentally in the EEG -- I have colleagues involved in such research. Most people (people like you and me I assume) have a measurable brain reaction when caught in an intentional untruth. But some people (about 1% of the population in Western civilizations) do not. Internally, when you and I are caught out, there is an "uh-oh" reaction. In contrast, when these others are caught out in the same way their internal reaction seems to be an absence of the "uh-oh" reaction and a consequent train of thoughts that go something like "OK, this guy didn't buy that one, let's try this". Such people are often intelligent, glib, and superficially charming, but lack empathy and so are manipulative and ruthless. Ordinary people, to their own credit, have a tough time imagining such a state and so are fooled easily. Even psychologists who regularly interview these extraordinary people report being fooled and misled. I can direct you to some of the literature on this if you would like







    I was away during the demo (limited cell phone access) ... back at my desktop and just catching up.

    Without knowing the voltage across the power supply -- or even that it was the same in the three runs -- I can't deduce anything.

    Using the power consumed by the 1 ohm resistor as the "input power" is absurd, although I suppose it is an upper limit.

    A null test for me.

    Quote from interested observer

    Perhaps you actually don’t understand what a scam is.

    If a disclaimer is issued far and wide to all and sundry that the investment in LENR is highly unsure and risky with no guarantee or even prospect of success, does that warning preclude scam?


    Rossi's blog contains many such warnings and disclaimer statements.


    Venture capitalists invest in highly risky ventures if the prospects that if just one of many of these types of risky investments come through the risk will be well worth the eventual reward. Such risky venture investments are like investment is a lottery ticket. Is a lottery a scam?

    Quote

    How do you suppose Rossi can attract potential investors he needs to fund a factory by keeping silent?


    If Rossi *really* wanted to attract investors, all he'd have to do with ANY of his ecat versions would be to set up a proper independent test using the ecat as a black box, with input and output measured clearly and correctly and with accurate blank runs and calibration, by someone unaffiliated with Rossi. Using a test lab would be best. Rossi has had innumerable opportunities to do this for a period going on seven years (!) now and has never even come close. In fact, and it is telling, his efforts get more and more lame with time. If Rossi had EVER done that sort of demo and it worked, he would be shooing away investors with a bulldozer and collecting his money in trucks. But no. After six continuous years of failures, he shows a piece of taped-up junk to an obscure audience with no main line press and he is unwilling to measure even the input electrical power to it correctly.

    Quote

    Is a lottery a scam?

    No, because the terms are revealed, at least in the US, by law. And the lottery organization has to tell the truth about it. Rossi lies to get money. He has never had a single thing of worth that stood the test of time. That's why he's a scammer and all his "inventions" are and have always been scams.

    Adrian, there is no circular logic. There is just your unwillingness to think clearly. I will try once again and pretend I am talking to an adult capable of being reasoned with.


    You asked why Rossi would do a demonstration if the e-cat doesn't work. The implication of your question is that if the e-cat didn't work, he would not do a demonstration. That is patently false IF he is a scammer or, for that matter, if he is delusional. If he was an honest individual who knew his gadget didn't work, of course he would not demonstrate it. So, in fact, by asking the question you are the one who is making an assertion that Rossi is necessarily honest and non-delusional.


    So let's try once more: IF Rossi is a scammer, he not only would do a demonstration, he would HAVE TO. That is what a scammer would do to raise money. That is not circular and not pathetic. What is pathetic is that I have to explain this to an allegedly educated adult three times and you still don't get it.

    Quote

    Using the power consumed by the 1 ohm resistor as the "input power" is absurd, although I suppose it is an upper limit.

    I think you mean the lower limit. The power consumed by the resistor is the least possible power put into the system. That would assume the rest of the piss simple circuit consumes nothing.


    You can easily calculate the power consumed by the resistor, assuming only that the resistance claimed and the voltage measurement across it are reasonably accurate. But you can not know how much power the rest of the circuit including the so-called ecatQX device consume. The measurements needed to determine that additional power are not provided by Rossi. All you are given (can derive) is the current. Neither the voltage nor the resistance are provided. Gee, think that was an accident? Would reveal IP? LOL.

    Quote from Shane D.


    One of the conclusions surrounding Mr Rossi's activities over the years is that the possibility of him simply misinterpreting his own results has become rather small. Of the 3 possibilities -- he has something, he is deluding himself, he is purposely fooling others -- the middle one has pretty much disappeared leaving the other 2 as the only real considerations.


    A fourth possibility is that Rossi does not know how to design a test.

    Quote from maryyugo

    No, because the terms are revealed, at least in the US, by law. And the lottery organization has to tell the truth about it. Rossi lies to get money. He has never had a single thing of worth that stood the test of time. That's why he's a scammer and all his "inventions" are and have always been scams.

    Saying it does not make it so. Prove it if you can.

    • Official Post
    Quote from axil

    Venture capitalists invest in highly risky ventures if the prospects that if just one of many of these types of risky investments come through the risk will be well worth the eventual reward.


    Axil,


    Yes, VC's play the odds, have lots of money to throw around, can be obnoxious, rich a...holes, but that does not make it legal, or some right to scam them.

    • Official Post
    Quote from axil

    A fourth possibility is that Rossi does not know how to design a test.


    LOLs. Let me guess; he can't design a test for the life of him as you say -although he has resisted multiple suggestions of how to do so (including from you), but he has somehow created this invention that will save the world? This has actually been going on for 10, almost 11 years now. When do we say enough?

    Quote from interested observer

    So let's try once more: IF Rossi is a scammer, he not only would do a demonstration, he would HAVE TO. That is what a scammer would do to raise money. That is not circular and not pathetic. What is pathetic is that I have to explain this to an allegedly educated adult three times and you still don't get it.


    One detail to add: If Rossi was a normal person pursuing normal investment opportunities, he would try to conduct a demo that was not readily open to such basic critiques. The demo might not convince skeptics, but it would be good enough to elicit from normal, intelligent people the question of "ok, that was interesting and not obviously flawed; now what should be done as a next step to look into this device's performance?" The unavoidable conclusion is that the demo did not clear this basic hurdle, but not for lack of opportunity. (See Alan F.'s response above.)


    To the inevitable reply about protecting IP, sorry, this retort will be persuasive only to those who are already persuaded. But one can mention it anyway, and throw in the word "pathetic" as well, if it sounds good to one's ears.

    Quote from Shane D.

    LOLs. Let me guess; he can't design a test for the life of him as you say -although he has resisted multiple suggestions of how to do so (including from you), but he has somehow created this invention that will save the world? This has actually been going on for 10, almost 11 years now. When do we say enough?

    LENR has been in development since the time of Tesla, that is more than a century. Yes, that is a long time by comparison hot fusion and fission has been under development since the 1950s. When do we say enough?

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