Cavitation Energy Systems

  • Unlike "Zephir", I do not think this research is totally useless.


    I will give you two examples:


    If we manage to generate small stable plasmoids in a deuterated liquid by cavitation under a magnetic field we obtain a liquid that contains some kind of small "tokamaks freestanding", whose life is low, but still very large compared at the speeds of nuclear reactions.


    Typically, I suggested that we can expect a life of about a tenth of a second.


    If this liquid is compressed, for example by means of a shock wave, it is probable that the plasmoids will compress more than the liquid, and that the temperature, the electric current and the magnetic field will increase.


    It is not impossible that we approach the criterion of Lawson.


    My results are not spectacular: not much neutron or gammas with tap water and 100 bars of pressure. Little light and no more light under magnetic field.


    Do not be discouraged, they are inexpensive experiments and I suggest that they be replicated and improved in better equipped laboratories.


    I suggest using high pressure pumps to cut steel by water jet (more than 1000 bars) Our Russian friends have shown that fission products and neutrons appeared if uranium nitrate was added in water and that the fluid is cavited through an orifice in a sapphire.


    Picture: cavitation bubbles in the optical cavity between the poles of the magnet.

  • I also suggest improving the system by removing water vapor in the bubbles. Indeed, when the bubble collapses, (1) there is steam inside, and when the bubble collapses, there comes a moment when the steam becomes supercritical, (2) and when the density of this fluid supercritical reaches the density of water, the collapse of the bubble stops (3) and the fluid bounces (as in a supernova).


    In addition, even before the rebound, the fluid is heated to white, and it radiates light (UV, visible and infrared), which pumps energy out of the system, and this brakes the wall in implosion.


    The maximum speed is therefore limited, and therefore the induced current is limited too.

    • Official Post

    http://physicsfromtheedge.blog…clear-reactions-qi-1.html


    Low Energy Nuclear Reactions & QI: 1

    Fusion is a process by which two atoms of hydrogen (a proton, possibly with neutrons attached, with an orbiting electron) fuse to form an atom of Helium (two protons, perhaps with neutrons, and orbiting electrons). Since the two atoms to be fused are positively-charged they repel each other, and to get them to fuse they have to be at a very high temperature. A 100 million degrees Kelvin or so is needed to give them enough kinetic energy to collide. The sun's centre is hot enough, and it is a huge fusion reaction turning hydrogen into helium, and only avoids exploding and destroying the Solar system because of its own self-gravity, which holds it in.


    Fusion releases a lot of energy, so for 70 years people have been trying to make it happen on Earth, in close confinement. So far 25 billion dollars have been spent on this (Storms, 2012) and the focus has been on huge machines that use magnetic fields to confine plasma: magnetic versions of the Sun (The so-called ITER project). Imagine the surprise then, when in 1989 Martin Fleischmann (then one of the world's experts in electro-chemistry) and Stanley Pons, claimed they had produced fusion in a little test tube! Their experiment is shown below.

    LENRcell2.jpg
    They put an electrolyte containing heavy water in a test tube (heavy water is just like water H2O, but the hydrogen H is replaced by deuterium D, which has an extra neutron, so D2O). They put two electrodes in, the cathode (negative charge) made of palladium and the anode (positive) of platinum, and passed a current between them (electrolysis). The D2O separated into oxygen, which being negative headed for the anode and bubbled off, and deuterium which, being positive, packed itself into the palladium cathode, since palladium has this odd property of soaking up deuterium like a sponge. Several scientists over the past 50 years had predicted that the deuterium could fuse in palladium being in such a packed state. Apparently it did, releasing a lot of heat, see the orange-red 'star'. The announcement of that thrilled the world with the possibility of having such a FusionCell in every home. Virtually limitless cheap energy.


    But revolutions are never pretty and this was the usual hysterical mess, because very soon it was noticed that if the deuterium was actually fusing, it should be emitting neutrons and gamma rays and whatever was happening wasn't doing that. A bonus for safety, but because the observations did not fit standard theory, cold fusion was classified as fringe. A few brave souls continued to investigate, and instead of cold fusion, they now call the field LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions). So far there have been about 200 independent replications of the excess heating effect so something odd and potentially very useful, is certainly happening, but why?


    I was persuaded to look at LENR recently by twitterer B.McIntyre who pointed out that my 2017 paper on the proton radius anomaly might have implications for LENR. His tweet exploded in my head during a tutorial the following day. A few days later I calculated the size of the effect on the train to St Andrews and it was too small, but then on the train back from St Andrews I read Ed Storms' summary (see below) and found out that LENR happens whenever there are tiny cracks in the palladium. See the gray mottled pattern on the palladium in the schematic - cracks in the palladium where the fusion happens. I have applied QI to confined cavities/horizons before (the early cosmos, emdrives, sonoluminescence..) and it changes the physics in intriguing ways..

    • Official Post

    Have you thought about passing an AC electrical current through the water? Just a wild idea - an AC current at the same frequency as that supplied to the magnets perhaps? Or, if this looks interesting, a variable frequency AC current that could be tuned to resonate with the B-field from your electromagnets might also show something. The presence of a current should certainly increase the response of the water to the magnetic field, generally by creating an ionic current orthgonal to it.

  • I need to ask... why cant you use water in a tube and use { a little bit} of mercury to pump/ move everything at the same time if your using a electromagnet type field over the tube?


    edit in

    I would think the faster moving mercury would open the water bubbles and transfer the electrons to the mercury and then to a transfer casing.?


    no go?

  • As with Rossi we have three choices for Cavitation Energy Systems: stupid, crazy or fraudulent.


    Which it is does not really matter, it is obvious that the concept is completely worthless.


    It is interesting to note though, that it is a faithful copy of Rossi's basic E-Cat scam modus operandi:

    Pump some water, heat it with electricity (2 x 500W) to the boiling point and produce steam from a small fraction of the water and pretend that all the water is vaporized.


    This is exactly what they do in this video, here is where they present the Rossi style COP calculation:

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    The COP turns out to be 5.25, just the way Rossi likes it!

    • Official Post

    fabrice DAVID do you have any preferences as for the theory behind the experiment? It does not have to be perfect but should at least support the direction taken.

    I see few ongoing experiment teams are trying to lump all possible effects together hoping to increase impact. Recent one I Bob G who now thinks of sending plasma discharge into already well stimulated microwave plasma. He is not alone there.

  • @ Alan,


    Ref: http://www.cavitationenergysys…ation%20engine-patent.pdf


    From the PROVISIONAL PATENT APPLICATION:


    [0003] The disclosure advantageously provides a cavitation engine configured to produce superheated steam. The cavitation engine includes a pre-heated impact chamber configured to receive injected fluid, such as hyperbaric water, injected at supersonic velocities and in a manner to maximize the formation of bubbles in the injected fluid. The impact chamber is configured to interact with the injected fluid to promote cavitation of the injected fluid and generate very high pressure.


    [0020] ... The pressure and orifice determine the degree of cavitation in the injection stream. ... so that the water hammer pressure crushes the bubbles and releases the energy associated with the bubble collapse.


    [0021] ... The velocity of the water directly affects the shock wave at the impact surface and the resulting water hammer pressure within the droplet containing the vapor nano bubbles.


    From this description it is evident that the authors do not have the slightest insight into the mechanics of cavitation. A cavitation bubble can be created when a fluid is subjected to negative pressure like behind a rotating propeller blade. The fluid is "torn apart" and the created bubble is filled with vapor from the fluid. If the negative pressure comes in the form of a short pulse the force that opens up the bubble will disappear quickly and the pressure from the surrounding fluid in combination with condensation of the vapor inside the bubble will cause the bubble to shrink rapidly. In this way the incoming water acquires a certain kinetic energy. If the bubble has a nice spherical shape both pressure and temperature at the end of this process can become considerable and it has been proposed that even nuclear fusion could be achieved, see "bubble fusion", "sonofusion". So far it has not been possible to demonstrate that cavitation can produce nuclear reactions.


    The "vapor nano bubbles" mentioned in paragraph 0021 are not surrounded by a spherically symmetric surrounding water pressure and therefore cannot collapse to produce an implosion. Instead the droplets with the supposed nano bubbles will just crash into the chamber wall turning into splatter and, the wall being electrically heated, maybe into some steam.


    Besides, being of "nano" dimensions, had they been able to collapse properly they would only have acquired nano amounts of kinetic energy. Low Energy No Reactions.

    • Official Post

    That's a big statement. How do you back it up? Not in this particular case, but in looking at scientific literature in the field in general?


    'Not in this case'...sorry but you seem to have missed my point. There is a large literature on sonofusion, sonoluminescence, charged particle emission caused by cavitation....etc etc. Have you reviewed the field and decided it's all nonsense? If so why? One swallow doesn't make a summer, and one small turkey only makes a sandwich.

  • That would be another thread. If you start one, I will be happy to give you my opinion on sonofusion, but you may not be so happy taking part of it.


    BTW, you can make X-ray images with Scotch tape too:

    https://www.technologyreview.c…ys-made-with-scotch-tape/


    But LENR I don't think.


    "A small turkey may weigh between 4 to 12 lbs."

    Source: https://www.livestrong.com/art…w-to-cook-a-small-turkey/


    I reckon even a minimum turkey would be good for at least a score of sandwiches.

    Whatever that has to do with anything.


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  • In trapped moisture bubbles between a fiberglass sheet and a aluminum plywood tractor trailer door blank, when you pull the fiberglass sheet away from the aluminum, all the trap bubbles will open. I have seen this spark jump 3' to a container wall to discharge to ground. it needed an outside force to cause the reaction and it was likley a chemical reaction to create the charge but none the less, it was the breakage of the bubble bond and the door blanks characterstics to a capacitor allowing the charge to biuld up to high voltage.

    Take a little bit from meny sources sounds like how the elite get rich.

  • One parallel between cavitation and most, if not all, forms of reported LENR, is the presence of a phase interface. For sonofusion (perhaps a flash of hot fusion, if it works) the most obvious interface is between the liquid phase and the enclosed gas phase within the bubble. Some cavitation reports exhort that it optimally occurs at a solid-liquid interface, raising it to a possible three phase coincident system. Combining phase interfaces provides orientation of components in possible LENR reactions-- which is also a putative structural feature in heterogeneous chemical catalysis. The commonality that distinguishes CF from HF is always the presence of a phase interface in virtually all of the former, and rarely if ever to be seen in the latter.


    The beauty of interfaces, is that they can localize, orient and concentrate: reactants, energy, forces, fields-- thereby effectively increasing their participation in possible LENR reactions. Nernst pressure, evanescent waves (surface plasmons), the 'skin effect', the possibility of colocalizing plasma to condensed matter, ferromagnetic to diamagnetic discontinuity, conductor to insulator and so on.

  • From this description it is evident that the authors do not have the slightest insight into the mechanics of cavitation. A cavitation bubble can be created when a fluid is subjected to negative pressure like behind a rotating propeller blade.


    Pehaps another glance at Bernoulli's equation is required HG? ...Plenty of room for 'negative' pressures in there - given high enough velocities.

  • For the connection between cavitation and say Eric and Longview's discussion, please see back about 8 posts here, to wit:


    One parallel between cavitation and most, if not all, forms of reported LENR, is the presence of a phase interface. For sonofusion (perhaps a flash of hot fusion, if it works) the most obvious interface is between the liquid phase and the enclosed gas phase within the bubble. Some cavitation reports exhort that it optimally occurs at a solid-liquid interface, raising it to a possible three phase coincident system. Combining phase interfaces provides orientation of components in possible LENR reactions-- which is also a putative structural feature in heterogeneous chemical catalysis. The commonality that distinguishes CF from HF is always the presence of a phase interface in virtually all of the former, and rarely if ever to be seen in the latter.

    • Official Post

    Alan, being a moderator at this forum perhaps you can tell me if there is a forum rule that says that you should at least try to discuss things that have at least some connection to the topic.


    If you wish to make a complaint about postings, please use the 'warn' tab (the hammer) in the bottom right hand corner of every post.

  • Just thinking of it as an ant farm, one sife of the glass is holding the reaction area sheet on the other side has the carbon cap sheet and the ants are running around poping the bbls.... that would take 5 sheets just for the cavitation area without the reaction area attached.

  • To longview, who says: «:It is a supercritical fluid, a supercritical plasma, which is essentially a supercritical fluid. "


    We know what a supercritical fluid is, but I do not know what a "supercritical plasma" is.


    For the record, a supercritical fluid is a fluid that does not change phase if we only change the pressure (starting above the critical point, of course) If we increase the pressure too much, we still end up getting a kind of solid, more or less "solid" depending on the properties of the fluid. (I am not sure that it is possible to obtain such a "solid", even at very high pressure, in the case of helium.) (below the critical point, it is possible to solidify the helium under reasonable pressures, and this solid helium forms a Diafluid-like Bose-Einstein Condensate at around 0 Kelvin.)


    Example: you can compress supercritical water to the pressure you want, you will never get condensation into liquid water. (On the other hand, theoretically, at very high pressure, one must obtain "ice", for example in the heart of giant planets, but this is theoretical in the case of giant planets, because it is very hot in the center (10,000 K or more.) The theoretical physicists who made these calculations are not chemists, and they seem to ignore that at high temperature the water dissociates into hydrogen and oxygen ... It seems obvious to me that a layer of hot ice (water or ammonia, or a mixture of the two) should evolve rapidly into a pure layer of oxygen and a layer of nitrogen, the hydrogen migrating towards the outer hydrogen-helium (supercritical) layer. The nice inner core of "rocks" that we can see on the beautiful infographics of Wikipedia must silicates must decompose itself to release oxygen and metals, so we must have a ferronickel core containing other metals, and above more or less pure layers of Obviously, and fortunately, uranium does not sediment in the center of the nucleus of the planets and this heavy element remains dissolved in ferronickel, otherwise we would be aware of it.


    I take this opportunity to note that it is the same thing in the center of the sun: We are in "radiative zone", there is no convection, the reactions of fusion of which we spoke above, in the center of the sun, are probably fusion reactions at the core limit of heavy elements of our star. (from memory, the rocky core must equals 3000 Earth masses) The fusion of hydrogen in our star is in fact a nuclear reaction in condensed matter!


    But back to our plasma: at very high pressure, we can no longer compress a plasma, because of the pressure of Pauli (Because of the exclusion principle of Pauli, electrons and other fermions repel.) It is he famous "degenerate matter" of the center of white dwarfs.


    If the pressure increases further the electrons are very quickly picked up by the protons and this remark answers the question of our friend ... above: yes, the electronic capture is possible with free electrons, no need for intact K and L shells! And this reaction depends on the electron density: the more electrons spend time in the nuclei the more likely they are to react with the protons by weak interaction.

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