It is remarkable to think about how low the power density in the sun is:

Quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun

Theoretical models of the Sun's interior indicate a power density of approximately 276.5 W/m³, a value that more nearly approximates that of reptile metabolism or a compost pile than of a thermonuclear bomb.

The thing that prevents the sun from burning much quicker is the step in the p-p chain at which the pp resonance transitions to pn (deuterium) via inverse beta decay (emission of a positron), which is the rate limiting step because it is a slow process.

Quote from Longview

The "huge fusion reaction" is at a very low rate-- only the immense mass and volume of the Sun make it "huge". The core of our Sun (inner 24% of total radius, where ~99% of its energy is produced) has an average power volume of 276.5 watts per cubic meter, or 276.5 microwatts per cubic centimeter. At a 150 g per cubic centimeter, that translates to a power density of 1.84 microwatts per gram. It is sobering to consider that such a minuscule level of power at the Sun's 15.7 million Kelvin core temperature, and its maximum 250 billion atmosphere pressure, would likely be utterly undetectable in any terrestrial laboratory context.

Against such a stellar example, any modest measurable over unity COPs or immodest Q values, especially from cool fusion, are very remarkable.

Regarding: "Against such a stellar example, any modest measurable over unity COPs or immodest Q values, especially from cool fusion, are very remarkable. "

In other words: proton/proton fusion cannot be a factor...it cannot happen in cold fusion.

See this info for an update on proton/proton fusion:

https://www.newswise.com/doesc…uY29tL2FydGljbGVzL2xpc3Q=

Proton-Proton Fusion: Powering the Sun

Also see

https://phys.org/news/2017-12-…-quarks-precise-view.html

Large-scale simulations of quarks promise precise view of reactions of astrophysical importance

For details see:

http://nplqcd.ub.edu/

Nuclear Physics with Lattice QCD

A list of related papers are included in this lattice QCD research summary.

Quote from Longview

Not in any "other words" attributable to me.

Well then, how does your statement about PP fusion impossibility at room temperature and pressure be applies to LENR?

Quote from axil

In other words: proton/proton fusion cannot be a factor...it cannot happen in cold fusion.

axil : Seems your background is standard physics - the society of "no clue how a nucleus and dense matter really works". R.Mills currently is fusing protons. He just refuses to tell us about it, because this would invalidate (part of) his theory. But all his experimental parameters are perfect for H-H fusion. Just one hint: You need at least 10000 Amperes.

Longview, I don't know enough to weigh in on whether electron capture competes with positron emission in the transition from pp to pn in the p-p chain. My understanding is that electron capture generally takes the form of inner shell electron capture — e.g., k– or l–shell electron capture — as these electrons spend some time in the nuclear volume. In the context of a plasma, I don't know whether this decay mode happens more than a negligible amount. It's an interesting question, though.

I personally wonder about how solid our current understanding of electron capture is.

Bear in mind that electron capture is mediated by the weak interaction, which operates over extremely short distances (0.1 percent of the diameter of a proton). Because the range is so short, the electron to be captured must transit the nuclear volume. In the case of s-orbitals in the k– and l–shells, they are bound and spend some time there. I am pessimistic that free electrons will spend more than a tiny fraction of time there in comparison to bound electrons.

This thread captures a discussion about the proton-proton chain and LENR.

Quote from Eric Walker

The thing that prevents the sun from burning much quicker is the step in the p-p chain at which the pp resonance transitions to pn (deuterium) via inverse beta decay (emission of a positron), which is the rate limiting step because it is a slow process.

Quote from Eric Walker

Bear in mind that electron capture is mediated by the weak interaction, which operates over extremely short distances (0.1 percent of the diameter of a proton).

This kinetic model of the sun is good example of classic kinetic fusion theory, that is more or less irrelevant for terrestrial purposes (except for ITER people sucking 100 billion of taxpayers money). The proton-proton fusion can only happen inside a very strong rotating magnetic field with a large E-field gradient. This has been detected when people analyzed the temperature of the corona especially in magnetic brake-out (flares).

If we would use standard-model physics to explain the solar p-p fusion, then the earth would be a damn cold place.., as such event(s) should happen about once a second...

As mentioned many times: Standard-model physics still has no clue how p-p fusion should run. Otherwise they would replicate Mills.

There is another theory of how the Sun produces energy. It is being explored in the SAFIRE project. To my way of thinking that power source is LENR.

I am tracking these results since SAFIRE is seeing the emergence of the LENR reaction in hydrogen which includes transmutation and power production.

http://www.safireproject.com/gallery.html

The production of high power up to 2.000,000 watts from a input pf 3900 watts.

High amperage and voltage discharge when ionized layers of hydrogen explode

Transmuted elements that appear in the hydrogen envelope: He, C, N, O, Ne, Fe, Cu, Ag.

Spectral lines of the various isotopes of transmuted elements.

Transmuted elements that appear on the electrode.

Ball lightning like plasmodes that appear on the electrodes.

Low Energy Nuclear Reactions found in Hydrogen impregnated metallic electrodes.

axil

"There is another theory of how the Sun produces energy. It is being explored in the SAFIRE project. To my way of thinking that power source is LENR."

How much e.g. Nickel is there already "made" in our sun (and any other G2V type star), when following this theory?

Does this really match the well observed Hertzsprung-Russell and Bethe-Weizsäcker theory?

What makes you so sure about the SAFIFRE and LENR?

Quote from bang99

axil

"There is another theory of how the Sun produces energy. It is being explored in the SAFIRE project. To my way of thinking that power source is LENR."

How much e.g. Nickel is there already "made" in our sun (and any other G2V type star), when following this theory?

Does this really match the well observed Hertzsprung-Russell and Bethe-Weizsäcker theory?

What makes you so sure about the SAFIFRE and LENR?

Display More

Quote

How much e.g. Nickel is there already "made" in our sun (and any other G2V type star), when following this theory?

On earth, the function of nickel in LENR is to provide nanocavities in LENR to produce metallized hydrogen. In the Sun, metalized hydrogen is produced by temperature and pressure, therefore, nickel is not required to activate LENR inside planets and stars.

Quote

Does this really match the well observed Hertzsprung-Russell and Bethe-Weizsäcker theory?

These nuclear based theories will eventually be reworked to take into account the magnetic catalyzation of the LENR reaction on the surfaces of stars.

Holmild has shown in his latest paper that the nature and energies of solar winds fits well into the experimentally observed nature of the metallic hydrogen base LENR reaction.

The 11 year solar cycle points to magnetic based LENR reactions

The 2,000,000 degree heat produced by the corona also points to magnetic based LENR reactions.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com…002/2017JA024498/abstract

Abstract

Ultradense hydrogen H(0) is a very dense hydrogen cluster phase with H-H distances in the picometer range. It has been studied experimentally in several publications from our group. A theoretical model exists which agrees well with laser-pulse-induced time-of-flight spectra and with rotational spectroscopy emission spectra. Coulomb explosions in H(0) in spin state s = 1 generate protons with kinetic energies larger than the retaining gravitational energy at the photosphere of the Sun. The required proton kinetic energy above 2 keV has been directly observed in published experiments. Such protons may be ejected from the Sun and are proposed to form the solar wind. The velocity distributions of the protons are calculated for three different ejecting modes from spin state s = 1. They agree well with both the fast and the slow solar winds. The best agreement is found for H(0) cluster sizes of 3 and 20–50 atoms; such clusters have been studied experimentally previously. The properties of ultradense hydrogen H(0) give also a few novel possibilities to explain the high corona temperature of the Sun.

Plain Language Summary

The solar wind contains protons from the Sun with high velocity. The mechanism for their ejection from the strong gravitation at the Sun's surface has been debated for a long time. Protons with high enough energy can be ejected from a condensed form of hydrogen called ultradense hydrogen, which is stable even at the temperature of the Sun. Experiments show that such a mechanism exists. Calculations now give good agreement with the velocities of both the slow and the fast solar winds.

Quote

What makes you so sure about the SAFIFRE and LENR?

Transmutation is a sure indicator that LENR is at play.

See

Liquid Metallic Hydrogen: A Building Block for the Liquid Sun

http://www.ptep-online.com/index_files/2011/PP-26-07.PDF

The reference puts forth a case that explains the sun as a condensed matter object made up of a liquid hydrogen lattice. The evidence that supports this idea is rooted in the continuous black body spectrum of the light that the sun produces. Only a solid like graphite can produce such a continuous spectrum. This idea that the sun is a condensed matter object rather than a gas explains many of the solar mysteries that have perplexed solar science for the last two centuries. But what cannot be explained and what is discouraging the idea that he sun is a condensed matter body made up of liquid hydrogen is how that liquid could remain liquid under the tremendous heat and pressure that exists inside the sun and in its atmosphere.

Another mystery about the sun is why it is not far denser than it is. There is a force intrinsic to the liquid hydrogen from becoming degenerate and therefore keeps the fusion going in the sun.

Degeneracy removes all of the forces which lead to fusion. As such, it should be more reasonable to maintain the relative incompressibility of condensed matter. The Sun, after all, has a very ordinary density of 1.4 g/cm3 [141] and the same is true for the giant planets.

From the conclusion

Relative to the Sun, a condensed approach brings interesting contrasts and dilemmas versus the gaseous models. The latter are endowed with tremendous mathematical flexibility [1, 2], but their physical relevance appears limited. Gases cannot by themselves impart structure and the solar spectrum is not easily explained in a gaseous framework [9]. The gaseous stars suffer from the stellar opacity problem [9]. Conversely, a liquid metallic hydrogen model imparts a wonderful ability to explain the origin of the solar spectrum relying on the layered structure held in common with graphite [141–149]. Metallic hydrogen possesses a very high critical temperature and can exist as condensed matter even on the solar surface accounting for many features of the Sun best characterized by material endowed with a lattice [141]. Most of the physical attributes of the Sun are more simply explained within the framework of a liquid model [141]. However, a condensed Sun is not as open to theoretical formulations. The advantages of a liquid Sun are now so numerous [20, 141–149] that it is difficult to conceive why the model was not proposed long ago. This speaks to the allure of the gaseous Sun and the mathematical beauty of the associated equations of state. In closing, it should be highlighted that there is currently an effort to describe the Sun as “liquid-like” (e.g. [162]). In the end, the author believes that such terminology should be avoided. If the Sun is condensed, it should be viewed as liquid, not “liquid-like”. Even gases could be “liquid-like”. Such terms cannot be sufficient, since a real lattice is required for production of the solar thermal spectrum. No compromise can be made on this point for those who have studied thermal emission in real materials. “Liquid-like” might refer to anything from a gas, to plasma, to fully degenerate matter, to supercritical fluid and none are necessarily endowed with a lattice. The contention of this work remains that the photosphere of the Sun is liquid, with true lattice structure and ordered interatomic distances. The adoption of liquid metallic hydrogen as a solar constituent brings with it a wealth of possibilities in describing solar structures and understanding the solar spectrum. Central to this advancement, the lattice must remain the foremost element in all of condensed matter, whether here on Earth, within the Sun, and even, in the firmament of the stars. Acknowledgement Luc Robitaille is acknowledged for producing a rendition of graphite’s layered lattice.

LENR is a fundamental force of nature. LENR gives liquid hydrogen its incompressibility. We who have been studying LENR understand that a monopole magnetic shield protects the liquid hydrogen that we know as Rydberg hydrogen matter from becoming degenerated matter in the giant planets and stars. Degenerate matter cannot support fusion so LENR is keeping the sun shining. This monopole force keeps the biggest and most massive stars from burring out and collapsing in on themselves. This monopole force gives LENR the ability to produce nuclear reactions directly within the nucleus of the atom as the strong force. The evidence from the sun and the planets adds to our understanding of what LENR is.

----------------------------------------------

As another example, if our view of how the sun works can be changed to look in it as a ball of liquid rather than a ball of hot gas, then many enlightening ideas spring from the new opinion. Problems like the solar neutrino problem might be solved correctly.

As neutrino detectors became sensitive enough to measure the flow of neutrinos from the Sun, it became clear that the number detected was lower than that predicted by models of the solar interior. In various experiments, the number of detected neutrinos was between one third and one half of the predicted number. This came to be known as the solar neutrino problem.

If the sun is viewed as a cold fusion reactor, then all kinds of fusion reactions can take place all throughout the entire volume of the sun and not just in the hot gas in the core involving just PP hot fusion. This bad hot fusion assumption gums up neutrino science and the standard model. In general, unless science takes cold fusion seriously, it is headed for disaster. Problem solving needs to be based on the understanding about the correct foundation of the structure of the universe.

------------------------------------------------

There is a tremendous amount of heat coming from the interior of Pluto and its small satellite; so much so, that the surface of Pluto is resurfaced by the eruption of ice from the interior of Pluto. Also there is a constant replenishment of the nitrogen atmosphere of Pluto from the interior.

The standard causes given for planetary heat production does not apply, that being heat from the sun, radioactive decay, and friction caused by tidal stretching. Furthermore, there is evidence that other smaller free standing bodies in the Kuiper belt sometimes called the Edgeworth–Kuiper belt, are at the far edge of the solar system are producing their own internal heat.

Although to date most KBOs still appear spectrally featureless due to their faintness, there have been a number of successes in determining their composition. In 1996, Robert H. Brown et al. obtained spectroscopic data on the KBO 1993 SC, revealing its surface composition to be markedly similar to that of Pluto, as well as Neptune's moon Triton, possessing large amounts of methane ice.

Water ice has been detected in several the Kuiper belt objects (KBO)s, including 1996 TO₆₆, 38628 Huya and 20000 Varuna. In 2004, Mike Brown et al. determined the existence of crystalline water ice and ammonia hydrate on one of the largest known KBOs, 50000 Quaoar. Both of these substances would have been destroyed over the age of the Solar System, suggesting that Quaoar had been recently resurfaced, either by unexplained internal tectonic activity or by meteorite impacts.

In my opinion, LENR based on metalized hydrogen is a possible answer to these strange cosmological conundrums.

finally see

bang99 "How much e.g. Nickel is there already "made" in our sun (and any other G2V type star), when following this theory?

Data from the corona/photosphere indicates nickel/iron/ silicon

Data from the SAFIRE model about possible transmutations is very sparse..appears to be mainly iron.

However the SAFIRE metallic electrode may contain iron already

Perhaps Axil can keep us updated if better data eventuates from SAFIRE?